Maybe this isn't for me?

[TDK]

But do you know what? I still think it's the best job in the world (short of being a Pilot!) It's not a dead end job either.

Totally agree but once again that is for you and me but not for all. I really feel sorry for the OP and the decision he/she has to make. I think, do 2 years, see how you feel after being out on your own and then decide.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I bet even a pilots job must get boring once the autopilot is switched on shortly after take off until touchdown ?

I would give up train driving tomorrow to be a pilot as this was my boyhood dream

 

[FlamTap]

... I don't think fluked is the correct term. There are many people out there who could pass the tests and interviews and who would find the job boring. Until you try it you just don't know...

I agree. But I did say "for want of a better word"...

What I was driving at was the fact that by the OP's own admission they sort of fell into the job (assessment processes aside) rather than the positive result of some long-held desire to do it. This very fact, coupled with the OP's apparent antipathy, will get many wannabe's blood boiling. In particular those who never made it for whatever reason.

Fair play to the OP though, as they obviously had what it takes... On paper, at least.

 

[carlejo]

Aren't most jobs, if not all repetetive ?

it just boils down to how repetetive ?

truck driver, taxi driver, accountant, milkman(if they still exist ?)nurse, police, fireman, builder, etc

I know for a fact fireman do nothing all day, almost every day and nights are even quieter if that's possible...... they do some training, drills and they're there if we need them, but they don't do a lot at all.......

 

[NI 271]

Kneedown's post could just be the best I've ever seen on here.

I've been working Monday to Friday for last four months and I'm counting down the days till October 6th when I can go back on my shifts. If I'd been given a train driver job that was Mon-Fri 9-5 I'd seriously struggle with it, the only time I've been settled on regular(ish) hours was when I did eight years of permanent lates as a bus driver.

So I can appreciate how some who have only done 'office' hours could struggle with the transition into shift working. I suspect many struggle with the loss of their social life, or no longer being able to go to work the following day hungover and just go through the motions. There's serious life adjustment to be made if you've never worked shifts before. I'm thankful that I'd not have to make that sort of change if I ever got a job as a train driver.

 

[notadriver]

Kneedown's post could just be the best I've ever seen on here.

I've been working Monday to Friday for last four months and I'm counting down the days till October 6th when I can go back on my shifts. If I'd been given a train driver job that was Mon-Fri 9-5 I'd seriously struggle with it, the only time I've been settled on regular(ish) hours was when I did eight years of permanent lates as a bus driver.

So I can appreciate how some who have only done 'office' hours could struggle with the transition into shift working. I suspect many struggle with the loss of their social life, or no longer being able to go to work the following day hungover and just go through the motions. There's serious life adjustment to be made if you've never worked shifts before. I'm thankful that I'd not have to make that sort of change if I ever got a job as a train driver.

Train drivers don't work 5 days week 9-5. They average 35 hours a week - less than other full time jobs and certainly a lot less than those in the bus industry. The time off afforded to train drivers is also far greater than most other jobs. My stepson is a graduate software developer. His salary is half of mine, he works more hours than me and he has further to travel to work whilst paying to commute there!

 

[Beveridges]

My stepson is a graduate software developer. His salary is half of mine, he works more hours than me and he has further to travel to work whilst paying to commute there

One reason why I was quick to leave the IT Industry.

Plus, computer programming and then commuting in peak hour traffic on a 9-5 schedule, really is tedious.

As for MDD roles?!, if you think " train driving is boring" then you would probably slit your throat doing that role. Looking at the same bit of railway day in day out shunting is not for me at all,and most people. It would bore the living daylights out of you. Now that would be repetitive.

Don't listen to Jambo's comment on MDD as I really cannot see where he is coming from. MDD roles are not boring, repetitive or monotonous in the slightest, at least if your at the main TMD's.

 

[185]

I've spent my adult life doing **** jobs for **** pay, finally I have a job that pays well, and I cannot stand the job. What do I do? It's so hard to look past the wage, but that simply cannot be enough, can it?

Keep at it for a bit. Set yourself a three year plan.... then transfer.

It's a fantastic trade that you can take with you to any train company in the UK, even into Australia, Canada or New Zealand. Know so many lads that started off up here then ended up in far flung country places with FGW, Scotrail etc.

Be a shame if you packed it in. Just try keep a clean record and look to the future. Northern even have some of their own bases in far flung places, easier to transfer to.

 

[col303]

Aren't most jobs, if not all repetetive ?

it just boils down to how repetetive ?

truck driver, taxi driver, accountant, milkman(if they still exist ?)nurse, police, fireman, builder, etc

I know for a fact fireman do nothing all day, almost every day and nights are even quieter if that's possible...... they do some training, drills and they're there if we need them, but they don't do a lot at all.......

I suppose all jobs have their repetitive aspects like you say but I do have to disagree with the firefighter paragraph. It's just not like that at all, may have been decades ago but believe me there is not that much sitting around doing nothing. For the original poster it's unlikely many people will love every single aspect of their job but I guess it's weighing up if you can live with the negatives if the positives can outweigh them. As some already said the post from kneedown was a good one.

 

[JAMBO]

" bev" if the guys find driving on the mainline tedious and monotonous why on earth would he want to make the situation worse by becoming a MDD?! Are you for real, at least the lad will get out and about and see some of the railway, and in time when he settles in and becomes more confident I think he will start to enjoy himself. I mean driving on the mainline he gets to get out and about, not looking at the same 100 yards of track day in day out. It would be quite sad if he throws the driving away and steps down to an MDD.He would regret that move later in his career.

 

[TDK]

" bev" if the guys find driving on the mainline tedious and monotonous why on earth would he want to make the situation worse by becoming a MDD?! Are you for real, at least the lad will get out and about and see some of the railway, and in time when he settles in and becomes more confident I think he will start to enjoy himself. I mean driving on the mainline he gets to get out and about, not looking at the same 100 yards of track day in day out. It would be quite sad if he throws the driving away and steps down to an MDD.He would regret that move later in his career.

You don't know that - they are 2 separate roles. One is train driving the other is MDD. Some people like MDD, not many but some

 

[Beveridges]

If he finds mainline boring he may like MDD as you do considerably less driving. Its four jobs in one, a driver, ground shunter, a DP and a fueller. You also actually use your traction knowledge every day rather than once every year when that rare failure happens on the mainline. Its a different role so it may suit him there are ex mainline drivers now doing MDD jobs and they said the mainline was tedious but they like the MDD job. So it may be the role for the OP, in fact if he still can't stand the job in 2 years then I strongly recommend looking into the MDD role.

 

[TDK]

If he finds mainline boring he may like MDD as you do considerably less driving. Its four jobs in one, a driver, ground shunter, a DP and a fueller. You also actually use your traction knowledge every day rather than once every year when that rare failure happens on the mainline. Its a different role so it may suit him there are ex mainline drivers now doing MDD jobs and they said the mainline was tedious but they like the MDD job. So it may be the role for the OP, in fact if he still can't stand the job in 2 years then I strongly recommend looking into the MDD role.

You have a point BEV, MDD is a totally different role and certainly not as tedious as some mainline jobs.

 

[JAMBO]

Only drivers I have known done such a thing have been put there for having an incident or two on the main,and it was only the job really left for them to do. I dont know of any that have actually asked for it. Thats a step down in the wrong direction if you ask me, ain't exactly a challenge and career progression is it! As if the lad sticks in who know where he could end up, minder, instructor, DTM, trainer, operations manager, the opportunities are endless for a driver if you keep your nose clean.

 

[Beveridges]

Only drivers I have known done such a thing have been put there for having an incident or two on the main,and it was only the job really left for them to do. I dont know of any that have actually asked for it. Thats a step down in the wrong direction if you ask me, ain't exactly a challenge and career progression is it! As if the lad sticks in who know where he could end up, minder, instructor, DTM, trainer, operations manager, the opportunities are endless for a driver if you keep your nose clean.

WTF ? "Isnt exactly a challenge ?"

It challenges me more than enough! One thing I like about it is you always have to really think, its not one of those jobs where you get into a routine.

You are from the freight side where things are completely different. On the pass side if a mainline driver has too many incidents there are plenty of places they could go, conductors jobs, booking office, gateline, RPI, despatch, station supervisor, the list is endless, very few are lucky enough to get offered MDD on this side after an incident. Those that get on say "hardly what I call a punishment getting sent here!"


Anyway, this thread has gone way off topic, lets get back to the original discussion or its not fair on the OP

 

[youngboy]

joe20365, I worked shifts mate for almost twenty years, all different patterns but mainly 12 hour shifts that included weekends as standard. Over the year's I met many lads who wanted the big salary (I was earning £30K plus, 10 years ago) these lads mainly worked regular eight hour days at the same company for less than half the amount we were getting and were jealous of the salaries we could earn. Out of the ones who transferred to shift's, there was only a handful that enjoyed the pattern/job, most waiting for openings and going back on to days.
My advice would be, if you aren't happy at work and it's affecting your home life, ditch the job and find something that suits you and your family better.
I've been there mate, I used to sit on my last day off winding myself up about what was going to happen tomorrow at work and whether things had been changed. Eventually I took voluntary redundancy and sat here years later I know I left it too long and should've taken action earlier.
You know if you're going to settle down and enjoy it now, you're asking for people to tell you what you already know deep down.
It's your decision pal, money isn't everything !!!

 

[455driver]

With the shifts we do you have to fit your family and social life (whats one of them) around the job, if you cant/wont do that then pastures new might be the way to go.
But if you can do that then it can work damn well.

 

[Greaseball3220]

Sorry to hear about that OP, just shows that one person's Heaven is another's Purgatory, I'd stick with it for the while, maybe once you get to do some different routes and fall into a routine shift wise, maybe swapping with other driver's things will get better.

A Train Driving job and the pay's not something to be discarded lightly, especially if you picture ending up in a Call Centre stressed off your box for one-third of the pay or driving a Forklift around in some warehouse.

 

[notadriver]

You have a point BEV, MDD is a totally different role and certainly not as tedious as some mainline jobs.

Agreed I think that MDD job can be appealing. But Bev what about the shifts ? Is this kind of work mainly nights ?

 

[baldyman26]

I would give anything for a job on the railways. 10 hour days 8-6 Mon-Fri, every other sat morning, I have missed so much of my kids, for a job I detest. It isn't nice reading somebody doesn't like a job that so many of us on here would love, but it is a personal thing. As others have said you have to give it a chance unless it affects your ability to do the job. You have worked so hard to get where you are so don't jump ship too soon.

I have tried, I have had interviews for conductor positions, to be put on hold for assessment centres and then hear nothing, or get the emails saying we are reviewing our intake for the next assessment and then hear nothing. I never say never but have resigned myself to the fact that I will never get the opportunity you have had, so as others said, give it time.

 

[Beveridges]

I would give anything for a job on the railways. 10 hour days 8-6 Mon-Fri, every other sat morning, I have missed so much of my kids, for a job I detest. It isn't nice reading somebody doesn't like a job that so many of us on here would love, but it is a personal thing. As others have said you have to give it a chance unless it affects your ability to do the job. You have worked so hard to get where you are so don't jump ship too soon.

You wouldn't know if you'd like the job until you actually try it. This is an important thread and it should make people think if it really is for them before they apply.

In response to notadriver, MDD is predominantly night shifts, but its consistent and theres usually no early starts.

 

[455driver]

You wouldn't know if you'd like the job until you actually try it.

Very true, people imagine its like driving a premier service from one end of the country to another when reality is you will be stuck on crappy suburban units doing crappy suburban routes for a minimum of 5 years before getting anywhere near decent run out.

Personally I like driving crappy suburban units on crappy suburban routes and I occasionally get a nice run out as well, I could not do London Overground routes for all the tea in China.

Each to their own.

 

[whoosh]

Joe20365


Train driving, especially when learning, and in the first year or so after passing out, is very mentally draining. Shift work is very physically draining, certainly to start with, and the truth is that even after years of it there will be times when you suffer 'shift-lag' - like jet lag but without the glamour!

You are tired mate. And tiredness makes you grumpy, irritable and more susceptible to 'feeling low'. Being anxious that you might be trapped in a job is a normal fear, but when you haven't seen daylight/your kids all week, then it can really get to you.


When I started train driving I was single and so I wasn't being away from anyone when I was at work - I do find it more difficult now I have a family. Although... There are times it works really well - I've been able to attend assemblies at my stepdaughter's school, which I wouldn't've been able to working 9-5.

I've seen some lovely sunrises, and there's no way on Earth I would've voluntarily got up early enough to have seen them!

Is it 'boring'? Or is it 'steady'? Think about that. It can be either, but it depends on your frame of mind as to how you view your work.

MDD (Depot Driving) - my first couple of years driving, I used to do driving on the depot as overtime (covering part of a night turn) after afternoon jobs. I loved it! More sociable -not the hours, but more people to talk to than stuck in the cab on the mainline, shunters, other drivers, depot supervisors...
Some people swap for nights, there's usually less work in the diagrams and you see your family in the evening and at breakfast time and sleep whilst they are at work and school. Perhaps you'll like nights?

Some Minder Drivers are better than others. Some are enthusiastic and chatty, some are moody on mornings, some hate the company, and some are chatty when you are tired and not chatty!


Lots of factors to consider.

My advice is to stick it out. When you are out on your own you will be able to settle into your roster, and swap shifts if you want to. You won't have someone looking over your shoulder all the time, and as time goes on you won't find it as mentally draining as you'll get used to the job.


If you do decide that you really don't like the job and jack it in, then at least you have it a go. No one knows whether they will like a job (or a new company or depot even) until they try it.

 

[BestWestern]

Just a couple of thoughts; I've done shifts now for about that last 10 years. Some days I wish I did office hours, and then along comes a rush hour with packed trains and traffic jams and I'm happy that I don't! A good bit of advice though, if you struggle, is to try and stick with either earlies or lates. Most people have a preference, for me it's lates. I detest getting up at stupid o' clock, struggle to go to sleep before the kids and feel worse than dead by the end of an early week! On the lates you get a lie in every day, a leisurely journey into work and get the rush hour out of the way nice and early, and enjoy the quietest part of the day afterwards. It's great! You may prefer earlies of course, but the point is you don't have to suffer the extremes every week, before long you ought to be able to think about entering an early/late link or, if you're in a mixed link, finding somebody to swap with. It helps an awful lot and takes away probably the worst element of the job.

The other thing I'd offer is to bear in mind that there are a multitude of other jobs on the railway. If you make it as a Driver you will have proved yourself worthy, and the world is your oyster! You probably won't earn as much in a different role, but there are plenty of options which are still well paid. Office jobs in a control centre are usually mentally challenging, or you could even consider a move to the Guard grade if you felt it might be more satisfying! I say that as a Guard who very much enjoys the job and suspects I would enjoy driving less. But be very careful before you leave the railway for good, you may very well regret it! There are few industries which still enjoy a pay rise of a decent petcentage year on year, a solid pension scheme and a multitude of other benefits, and once you leave and have your card marked as a bit 'flaky' you might struggle to get back in, even with a different firm.

Some good advice above about transferring; once you've served a few years you can scour the recruitment rags and there's usually somebody wanting qualified Drivers. Just a case of biding your time before you can look at moving to 'Intercity' work or perhaps even freight if you fancy. Not such great job security on that side, but plenty of variety and I gather a rather more relaxed culture to a degree.

 

[JB25]

Very true, people imagine its like driving a premier service from one end of the country to another when reality is you will be stuck on crappy suburban units doing crappy suburban routes for a minimum of 5 years before getting anywhere near decent run out.

Personally I like driving crappy suburban units on crappy suburban routes and I occasionally get a nice run out as well, I could not do London Overground routes for all the tea in China.

Each to their own.

I agree with 455... I love the metro routes. I completely love the job, I love driving trains and I love the camaraderie of the mess room etc. The shifts can be awkward and my fiancée nags about my shifts but I love getting up early once in the routine and I have grown to love the lates as I find them quite relaxing.

Not sure what to say to the OP. I worked in an office job for 8 years, working my arse off for poor pay, being spoken to like crap etc. I love this job and I would urge anyone to at least stick it out. It can be tedious but it has a lot of perks and I definitely find the more you try to fit in the more you will enjoy yourself. I am lucky that I know quite a few people from various groups at the training school. Good luck, I couldn't imagine myself ever doing anything else now, even if I wind the missus up constantly talking about trains now.

 

[reapz]

Hi,

I haven't been on here for a while, since I successfully got through Northern's application process. So, I really enjoyed the training programme, learned a lot, felt challenged and made some good friends. However, I've now started driving properly with a minder, and basically, I'm not happy.

- I don't like the job, I find it mind-numbingly tedious. I enjoyed driving at first but the novelty soon wore off, and now I spend the whole time clock watching (something I never thought possible).

- The shifts are awful. I'm either getting up at 3/4 in the morning and finishing early but being exhausted. Or starting later and finishing at midnight (so far this week I've gone 5 days without seeing my kids), and being exhausted.

If I'm honest the only thing keeping me in the job at the moment is the wage (or what it will rise to over the next few years), but so far I can't imagine doing this for another year, let alone the next 35 years.

I've spent my adult life doing **** jobs for **** pay, finally I have a job that pays well, and I cannot stand the job. What do I do? It's so hard to look past the wage, but that simply cannot be enough, can it?

I realise there is unlikely to be anyone who can relate to this on this section of the forum, but I just felt I needed to put this out there, perhaps get the opinion of some experienced drivers and if they have seen people quit the job, as it seems like very few do.

this can get u into a bad spiral try and find things you enjoy about the job and focus on them. do a few years then go for a mangers job as that will be better suited by the sounds of it

 

[Beveridges]

Maybe the problem is the rolling stock ?

142s are just awful, 153s are poor as well. I take it the OP is mainly driving these.

Maybe in a few years, when northern get better trains, things might improve?

 

[E-Rail]

If the OP is really not happy, then call it a a day and move on. Life is too short mate to spend in a job you really don't want to do. Well done on achieving what you have and there will no doubt be many positives you can draw from your experience thus far that prospective future employers may value.

I completely understand where you are coming from. I've been in the bus industry for 15 years now and have done everything from rookie driver to Duty Manger to ultimately being an Operator. I've seen scores of new drivers fall into depressive states and leave the profession when the novelty of the job wears off. Any driving job is tedious and repetitive and the shifts can quickly drag you down. I found it near on impossible to get to sleep at night in order to be up a 0300 for stupid o'clock sign on's. As the night wears on and the opportunity for sleep passes by, the anxiety builds as you know you should never report for any driving duty sleep deprived.

In some ways, your predicament is worse as a train driver. Many PCV drivers look for alternatives beyond routine, stage carriage work and subsequently settle in touring, or private hires and corporate work where there is plenty of variety. That's an option not really open to most train drivers.

Ignore the left b*****k comments on here. It's a Careers forum and your experience and feedback is just as valuable, if not more than the stories of those finding happiness ever after in the job.

Best of luck for the future and I hope you find what makes you happy

 

[notadriver]

With all due respect to you e-rail there is little comparison between bus driving and train driving. For a start, train drivers shifts are far shorter than bus drivers and they get more time off work (4 day week/35 hours) That alone gives train drivers time to take up a hobby or to do something else they can enjoy.


And they'll be able to enjoy it with an average salary of 44k without overtime, train driving is a professional career and not something you generally do until something better comes along. They are the elite of the railway. My instructor once told me there are two types of people working on the railway. Drivers and those that want to be drivers.

Speaking of railway replacement buses a friend of mine did a double erail shift with an hours travelling either side. I only spotted two 40 minute breaks in the 14 hour shift (one in each 7 hour section). He told me missed out on one of those due to late running, overcrowding and traffic. So he left home for work at 8am and I started work at 5.30pm. I actually met up with him at 12.30am when he brought passengers for my train and we both finished at around 2am. In my 9 hour shift, less than half was actual driving.
And despite his double shift I still got almost double what he got (admittedly mine was overtime) That is the life of a train driver so please don't give up on it too easily and don't enter the bus industry if you can help it.

Oh - I forgot to mention I'm a bus/coach too when it suits me

 

[E-Rail]

You make fair points but you also have to accept that train driving isn't the Holy Grail of jobs for everyone, be they in the rail industry or outside it.

I have given it consideration a few times but rejected the idea ultimately on the grounds that once training is over and route signing is complete, the thought of doing the actual job would bore me to tears also.

Re Salary, yes, £44k is an above average wage in the UK, but not especially high when you consider that many driving positions are based in cities or with TOC's that impose residential restrictions.

We'll leave the grey subject of breaks on erail for another day. I've been trying, without success for nearly ten years to get a definitive answer from VOSA in writing regarding the issue:roll:

 

[loplop]

My instructor once told me there are two types of people working on the railway. Drivers and those that want to be drivers.

Lol, I've heard this too. I'm very new to the industry but from the conversations I've had so far with people in all different grades it's not quite true. A lot of people I've met would love to be drivers but definitely not all. Definitely not. I'm on the fence about it myself, I don't know that I would like to be alone for that length of time although there are other aspects of the job that really do appeal.

OP I work at the other end of the train. There are huge differences in the jobs but I can say that I am much happier being out on my own that when I was with my minder. I had lots of second thoughts at that stage and really wondered what I'd done. There is a huge amount for me still to learn but I no longer go home after a late shift completely unable to sleep because I'm replaying the day in my head. It's still hard to get to sleep early enough for the really early starts but I sleep a lot better than I did when being minded and the job no longer consumes my every waking thought. I'm very aware they are totally different jobs but you may find you follow a similar pattern. I'd stick it out for a bit. I have also noticed how many internal vacancies have been advertised already - it shouldn't be too hard to move internally in the future I wouldn't have thought.