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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

61653 HTAFC

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It could be worth either starting a new thread, or asking a moderator if this older thread (Legacy 507/508 thread) could be revived, now that we may be just weeks away from the first retirements of the 507/508s.
Good idea- has anyone yet requested this from the mods (don't want to spam them if it's already been done).

Not sure they'd be the first retirements though, I thought a few had already been stood down last year (in addition to the Kirkby casualty).

EDIT: The above-linked thread has now been re-opened for discussion of the eventual run-down and withdrawal of the class 507 and 508 fleets.
 
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Mollman

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I think the key paragraph from the BBC article mentioned earlier is:
He said "Aslef reps" were trialling and safety testing the new trains and the training course was "about 98% agreed, so if all the stars align, we might see the trains on the network very, very soon".
If the training course hasn't been fully agreed yet then I can't see any thing other than a single 777 doing a few trips if a trained driver is available.
 

danbarnstall

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There is a ‘ghost’ 777 running now ECS in place of one passenger circuit.

Whilst nothing is 100% set in stone I’d be surprised if this isn’t the first 777 passenger circuit on the network Monday.
 

jamesst

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Yep the plan is for the current 'ghost' circuit to run passenger at first.
As its an 8day training course that's the best you'll get for at least a couple of weeks.
 

MattRat

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Yep the plan is for the current 'ghost' circuit to run passenger at first.
As its an 8day training course that's the best you'll get for at least a couple of weeks.
How many hours a day is the course? As in, how many drivers can do it per day, so we can figure out how many will be trained by the end of the first 8 days.
 

Foxxle

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I do apologise if this has already been asked, but since the 777s are now almost entering service, does anyone have a rough idea when the service will be entirely operated by 777s, so when the 507/508s will finish service?
 

anthony263

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I've just taken this screenshot on Facebook saying the 1st 777s could enter service next week
 

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norbitonflyer

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Yep the plan is for the current 'ghost' circuit to run passenger at first.
As its an 8day training course that's the best you'll get for at least a couple of weeks.
Is this the circuit on RTT starting with the 0943 Kirkby to Central (5G72) and 1005 return (5K14) repeating every 45 minutes until the 1605 from Central (5K38) - (ten round trips) although I note that today RTT shows its first five round trips were cancelled, and it entered service at Kirkdale (not Kirkby) at 1307.
 

ExRes

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How many hours a day is the course? As in, how many drivers can do it per day, so we can figure out how many will be trained by the end of the first 8 days.

Not quite as easy as that surely? number one ingredient must be how many Drivers are available for training
 

Ribbleman

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I do apologise if this has already been asked, but since the 777s are now almost entering service, does anyone have a rough idea when the service will be entirely operated by 777s, so when the 507/508s will finish service?
I have read that the expectation is in about 18 months. This may depend partly on Network Rail’s progress on infrastructure alterations to allow 8-car 777 formations to run everywhere. There was an intention to retain 14 x Class 507 to allow some double unit running until NR had completed the various works. Given that timetables for everything have been disrupted, this may no longer be the plan.
 

Sam 76

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I have read that the expectation is in about 18 months. This may depend partly on Network Rail’s progress on infrastructure alterations to allow 8-car 777 formations to run everywhere. There was an intention to retain 14 x Class 507 to allow some double unit running until NR had completed the various works. Given that timetables for everything have been disrupted, this may no longer be the plan.
I see at Southport a sign has gone up today saying they are making changes to the platforms and access in preparation for the 777s.
 

DavidPowell

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I’m sure that you’ll appreciate why I have been silent for a while. I wouldn’t have wanted to say anything potentially controversial while Merseyrail’s drivers were considering which way to cast their votes (I fully appreciate that a fair few in here are Merseyrail employees).

Hopefully I can clarify on a few points:

1. The first IPEMU that was tested in Germany is currently en route between Crewe and Liverpool. RTT users can track progress and could intercept for photos at Bootle New Strand for photos in a couple of hours before delivery to Kirkdale.

2. Entry into Service is imminent. The Merseyrail and Merseytravel feeds will break the news (I’ll RT it once I have opportunity in the working day to do so)

3. Lots going on at Southport for a few months to come in preparation for eight car operation. We’re working at over 20 stations on this aspect of the project (I bet a few of you have already noticed a few changes). The works are mostly non-disruptive and will be delivered by Network Rail in advance of the associated services being provided.

4. 777 rollout programme. Love the debate about duration as it’s very real and the answer isn’t yet nailed on. The main constraints are driver training, stabling capacity on the network, rolling stock transportation/commissioning/fault free running/acceptance, 507/8 handback to Angel Trains, timetable change and Cl 777 performance in service.

I’m going to be a tease and suggest that rather than me giving you a timetable, you run a sweepstake on how long you think it’ll take. I’ll buy the winner a pint (or an alternative of an equivalent value if that isn’t your thing). The measure is duration between 1st and last (53rd) unit entering passenger service which will have been preceded by the last 507/8 having been withdrawn from service. Please note that this might involve a timetable change ;)

I’m really looking forward to the first train entering passenger service now that there’s a deal agreed and the rollout working its way round the network. I’ll be keeping an eye on this chatroom
 

OutdoorM

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3. Lots going on at Southport for a few months to come in preparation for eight car operation. We’re working at over 20 stations on this aspect of the project (I bet a few of you have already noticed a few changes). The works are mostly non-disruptive and will be delivered by Network Rail in advance of the associated services being provided.
Hi David,

Thanks for the very positive update!

A quick question re your 3rd point if you dont mind.

Given how long ago the first 777 arrived, and I presume the initial optimistic plan would be that they came quickly into service, could you expand as to any reasons why this work wasn't scheduled into the intervening years so that it would be ready at go live? Was it that this work had to wait until just before implementation?

Thanks, and I appreciate if you cant answer.
 

Bletchleyite

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I’m going to be a tease and suggest that rather than me giving you a timetable, you run a sweepstake on how long you think it’ll take. I’ll buy the winner a pint (or an alternative of an equivalent value if that isn’t your thing). The measure is duration between 1st and last (53rd) unit entering passenger service which will have been preceded by the last 507/8 having been withdrawn from service. Please note that this might involve a timetable change ;)

Dec 2023 timetable change date then? :D (May seems a bit soon)

I do drink but I guess a Merseyrail day ticket to go and ride them would be of similar value, though I'm conscious a pint is cheaper up north! :D
 

karlbbb

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A question spurred by my, er... "eventful" morning on Merseyrail this morning - can we assume that if all 777s are to be fitted with batteries, they're going to fare a little better in the icy conditions?

Our train this morning left from Maghull and only got as far as Aintree, sparking all the way, before the line was suspended and I had to walk back to Maghull. I could hear the compressor dropping out all the time and the driver said he couldn't get above notch 2 on the power lever. I guess that was just ice on the third rail and so the train couldn't get line power - would the batteries get enough charge back in the times that line power was available (less icy areas and down in the tunnels) to be able to run a good portion of the line?
 

Vespa

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A question spurred by my, er... "eventful" morning on Merseyrail this morning - can we assume that if all 777s are to be fitted with batteries, they're going to fare a little better in the icy conditions?

Our train this morning left from Maghull and only got as far as Aintree, sparking all the way, before the line was suspended and I had to walk back to Maghull. I could hear the compressor dropping out all the time and the driver said he couldn't get above notch 2 on the power lever. I guess that was just ice on the third rail and so the train couldn't get line power - would the batteries get enough charge back in the times that line power was available (less icy areas and down in the tunnels) to be able to run a good portion of the line?
I did wonder why there isn't some kind of mini plow and brush in front of the skate to push off the snow so you can keep running.
 

karlbbb

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I did wonder why there isn't some kind of mini plow and brush in front of the skate to push off the snow so you can keep running.
Wasn't snow in today's case, just a layer of ice as they looked clear to the eye.
 

frodshamfella

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I’m sure that you’ll appreciate why I have been silent for a while. I wouldn’t have wanted to say anything potentially controversial while Merseyrail’s drivers were considering which way to cast their votes (I fully appreciate that a fair few in here are Merseyrail employees).

Hopefully I can clarify on a few points:

1. The first IPEMU that was tested in Germany is currently en route between Crewe and Liverpool. RTT users can track progress and could intercept for photos at Bootle New Strand for photos in a couple of hours before delivery to Kirkdale.

2. Entry into Service is imminent. The Merseyrail and Merseytravel feeds will break the news (I’ll RT it once I have opportunity in the working day to do so)

3. Lots going on at Southport for a few months to come in preparation for eight car operation. We’re working at over 20 stations on this aspect of the project (I bet a few of you have already noticed a few changes). The works are mostly non-disruptive and will be delivered by Network Rail in advance of the associated services being provided.

4. 777 rollout programme. Love the debate about duration as it’s very real and the answer isn’t yet nailed on. The main constraints are driver training, stabling capacity on the network, rolling stock transportation/commissioning/fault free running/acceptance, 507/8 handback to Angel Trains, timetable change and Cl 777 performance in service.

I’m going to be a tease and suggest that rather than me giving you a timetable, you run a sweepstake on how long you think it’ll take. I’ll buy the winner a pint (or an alternative of an equivalent value if that isn’t your thing). The measure is duration between 1st and last (53rd) unit entering passenger service which will have been preceded by the last 507/8 having been withdrawn from service. Please note that this might involve a timetable change ;)

I’m really looking forward to the first train entering passenger service now that there’s a deal agreed and the rollout working its way round the network. I’ll be keeping an eye on this chatroom
Great news, thanks.
 

karlbbb

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356
Hmmmm there's electricity in the conductor rails, I wonder if there's a way to harness it to generate heat
Could be very complex for what is essentially only an issue for certain parts of the day in a few weeks of the year.
 

Skie

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A question spurred by my, er... "eventful" morning on Merseyrail this morning - can we assume that if all 777s are to be fitted with batteries, they're going to fare a little better in the icy conditions?
They won’t all have batteries, but those with traction batteries could theoretically lift their shoes and still run if they had enough battery power to get them to the underground section.

Not sure a short trip through the tunnels would be enough to allow them to work back though. Could just make it a headache as you would get stuck behind non-battery units anyway.
 

D821

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They won’t all have batteries, but those with traction batteries could theoretically lift their shoes and still run if they had enough battery power to get them to the underground section.

Not sure a short trip through the tunnels would be enough to allow them to work back though. Could just make it a headache as you would get stuck behind non-battery units anyway.
They will all have batteries. I think the OP is referring to the batteries they have on board to allow them to move round the depot without a third rail, not the units with battery packs for operation to Headbolt Lane.
 

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