Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[XAM2175]

Given the station isn't in Scotland, someone other than Scottish Power would have been my initial assumption!

The distributors today are the much-amalgamated successors of the privatised regional electricity companies, which were themselves successors of the area electricity boards. Most of them have subsequently adopted names that are less geographically precise,* but Scottish Power (which formed out of the South of Scotland Electricity Board) haven't, despite also taking on the North Wales, Merseyside, and Cheshire area distribution license.

* = that said, until last year, the license holder for the East Midlands was known as Western Power Distribution.

 

[8A Rail]

Anyone know when 014 went back to Crewe please?

My records suggest it was December 2021, not returned to Kirkdale since unless someone knows different.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It was marked with vehicle numbers ending 140 when it was at InnoTrans, but that's not necessarily official.

It is shown thus in the 2023 Combined Volume.

 

[Zontar]

Took these pictures at lea green not seen a 20 in years

Great photos, thanks for sharing

 

[Vespa]

I liked the red London Transport heritage colour scheme on that loco.

 

[py_megapixel]

The distributors today are the much-amalgamated successors of the privatised regional electricity companies, which were themselves successors of the area electricity boards. Most of them have subsequently adopted names that are less geographically precise,* but Scottish Power (which formed out of the South of Scotland Electricity Board) haven't, despite also taking on the North Wales, Merseyside, and Cheshire area distribution license.

* = that said, until last year, the license holder for the East Midlands was known as Western Power Distribution.

Thanks, that explains things then.

 

[karlbbb]

Been a few cancellations and changed trains this morning. Not the best re-introduction into service! Do we know if there's any 507/508s now running on the Kirkby line to fill in?

 

[Liverpool 507]

Been a few cancellations and changed trains this morning. Not the best re-introduction into service! Do we know if there's any 507/508s now running on the Kirkby line to fill in?

No. It is 777009, 777013 and 777018

 

[507020]

Kirkdale C.S. = 001, 003, 004, 007, 008, 009, 010, 012, 013, 015, 016, 018, 049 and 140.
Crewe C.S. = 002, 005, 006, and 014.

Edit (19:45hrs): For some unknown reason, missed 004 being at Kirkdale, list now amended.

Updated location list below:

Kirkdale C.S. = 001, 003, 004, 007, 008, 009, 010, 012, 013, 015, 016, 018, 049 and 140.
Crewe C.S. = 002, 005, 006, and 014.

Edit (19:45hrs): For some unknown reason, missed 004 being at Kirkdale, list now amended.

But 003, 004 and 010 are currently stabled at Southport, not Kirkdale.

 

[Liverpool 507]

But 003, 004 and 010 are currently stabled at Southport, not Kirkdale.

003 is in Birkdale 3 Siding. Came up Saturday and I assume another will make an appearance to fill 4 Siding now 777012/016 were brought back and the remaining four at Crewe are rejoining the network.

 

[mcnw35282]

Given the station isn't in Scotland, someone other than Scottish Power would have been my initial assumption!

The Merseyside And North Wales Electricity Board (MANWEB) was bought by ScottishPower in 1996. The local DNO for Merseyside is SP Energy Networks.

 

[tripleseis]

I have to say, these new trains do look really good.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have to say, these new trains do look really good.

Wait until you've tried the seats. They're truly nasty. Bar the level boarding (definitely a good thing) it's full of glitzy gimmicks that seem to be winning people over, but the basic product is to me very, very weak - the Desiro City is much, much better and that's even with the shortcomings those have, and the LU S8 (low floor throughout) and 345 knock spots off it in my book.

Unsurprisingly, I've found that they appear to be a Fainsa product, albeit one with some custom modifications that make it worse.

Bad seats, overbright lighting, iffy ride, awkward layout, narrow doors*, bland colour scheme. Not really very good at all.

* I get the platform length issue, but the single-door end vehicles take ages to load and unload, and this narrowness accentuates it as you can only use them single file unlike the very wide doors on the Desiro City. They'd have been better going for two doors on all vehicles and ASDO on the end ones as London Underground did (for those platforms that absolutely can't be extended, most could).

 

[MattRat]

Wait until you've tried the seats. They're truly nasty.

According to one of the guys in the video (can't remember his name), you just have a skinny bum.

Honestly, such a statement came across as utter contempt to those complaining, and it really doesn't feel like they actually listened to anyone when they designed the trains, contrary to what they said.

 

[Parjon]

I can't recognise any of those characterisations. I liked the seats, the ride was fine, the lighting is fine, no comment to make about the layout as the wider aisle seems to compensate, and who the heck wants a garish colour scheme. The single end door isn't really as it's in the middle and there is another one further on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't recognise any of those characterisations. I liked the seats, the ride was fine, the lighting is fine, no comment to make about the layout as the wider aisle seems to compensate, and who the heck wants a garish colour scheme.

I don't want a garish colour scheme, but I do want a warm, classy and inviting one, which the S8 and 345 offer, as does the 507/508, but the stark white and grey of the 777 doesn't.

The wide aisle sort of compensates, but I found the unit harder to walk down with bags than the 507/508 or 700/707/717 due to those wide grab poles in the too-small vestibules. Plus the narrow seats mean you can't sit two average males side by side without one sticking out into the aisle. The 700 etc have wider spacers (I used one soon afterwards, and thought it so much better, though the colour scheme of these is also bland). The best layout I've seen for eating crowds is the 196 give or take the addition of door standbacks and wider doors - full width seats with full width spacers but no armrest, same as the 172 and indeed the 507/508.

The single end door isn't really as it's in the middle and there is another one further on.

Combined with the narrowness of the platform at the north end of Central it took several minutes to empty that vehicle when I used it as a result of that single door.

 

[OL-3944]

First operating incident this morning involving a 777 showing on Real-time trains. 1020 Central to Kirkby. Anyone know what happened?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

First operating incident this morning involving a 777 showing on Real-time trains. 1020 Central to Kirkby. Anyone know what happened?

Realtime Trains | 2K15 1020 Liverpool Central to Kirkdale | 07/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 2K15 1020 departure from Liverpool Central to Kirkdale on 07/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This one?

This service was cancelled between Kirkdale and Kirkby due to an issue with the train crew (TH).

 

[The_Train]

My records suggest it was December 2021, not returned to Kirkdale since unless someone knows different.

Bizarrely, I have that record actually but then I also have a record in Jan 2022 that the unit commenced mainline testing - do I have the latter bit of info incorrect?

 

[8A Rail]

But 003, 004 and 010 are currently stabled at Southport, not Kirkdale.

As I have stated previously, I am not going to continue to update the existing list I have posted with 'sub' locations such as Southport or any other 'local' location. The purpose of the lists to indicate which Class 777's have arrived in the area or at other 'outer locations' such as Crewe CS from Poland or Switzerland. The list's have been posted in good faith from the very outset.

Bizarrely, I have that record actually but then I also have a record in Jan 2022 that the unit commenced mainline testing - do I have the latter bit of info incorrect?

I have no idea! I have rechecked various reports / sightings from the past and my information is based on these reports. Again, I have posted the updates in good faith and may be a surprise to you (& others) it has been not for my benefit as I am really not bothered which Class 777's are here or not. Very Sorry.

 

[The_Train]

As I have stated previously, I am not going to continue to update the existing list I have posted with 'sub' locations such as Southport or any other 'local' location. The purpose of the lists to indicate which Class 777's have arrived in the area or at other 'outer locations' such as Crewe CS from Poland or Switzerland. The list's have been posted in good faith from the very outset.


I have no idea! I have rechecked various reports / sightings from the past and my information is based on these reports. Again, I have posted the updates in good faith and may be a surprise to you (& others) it has been not for my benefit as I am really not bothered which Class 777's are here or not. Very Sorry.

Firstly, I agree with the sub location bit. It's impossible to be constantly up to date with which 777s are at other locations and which are on depot - I think differentiating between those at Crewe and those on the Merseyrail network is more than enough and I don't see why people would need anything more detailed than that to be honest.

In response to your bit in response to my post, I don't want you to think I was in any way having a dig. I can assure you that since starting my website I know the difficulty in keeping bang up to date with information without access to the big box of gen and so appreciate any information provided. I was simply looking to find out if my additional info is incorrect but I will commence my own investigations into this and report back any findings

 

[8A Rail]

In response to your bit in response to my post, I don't want you to think I was in any way having a dig. I can assure you that since starting my website I know the difficulty in keeping bang up to date with information without access to the big box of gen and so appreciate any information provided. I was simply looking to find out if my additional info is incorrect but I will commence my own investigations into this and report back any findings

I did not think in anyway you were having a dig, far from it. I am sorry in my reply may have felt that way. No one is perfect, especially myself so it is possible I may of missed something but if you find anything different, then happy to hear.

 

[The_Train]

I did not think in anyway you were having a dig, far from it. I am sorry in my reply may have felt that way. No one is perfect, especially myself so it is possible I may of missed something but if you find anything different, then happy to hear.

I've found nothing to suggest this unit has ever departed Crewe following it's arrival on or around 22/12/21. I have no idea where I got the info of it having started testing as that may be problematic out of Crewe My records have been duly updated

 

[karlbbb]

Seems the new fleet's "teething issues" are continuing apace. Several cancellations today already - most days over the last week there have been cancelled train services on the Kirkby line due to train faults. And they're now all 777s so it can only really be them!

 

[Skie]

Failures happen with a new fleet, hardly unexpected. The whole reason the Kirkby and Ormskirk lines are first is because they have good access to the depot. The 2 failed 777s have been replaced by 508/7s

 

[prod_pep]

Unexpected or not, it has been a poor start from the 777s considering the age it took to get them into service.

An amazing stat: it took just 33 days from the first delivery to Merseyside to get the first 507 into revenue-earning service back in 1978. The 777s? 1,103 days. Times have changed and there was a pandemic, but there's much more to it than that.

 

[DanNCL]

Unexpected or not, it has been a poor start from the 777s considering the age it took to get them into service.

An amazing stat: it took just 33 days from the first delivery to Merseyside to get the first 507 into revenue-earning service back in 1978. The 777s? 1,103 days. Times have changed and there was a pandemic, but there's much more to it than that.

Weren’t the 507s effectively an already tried and tested design, being third rail only 313s? That’ll have made their introduction considerably easier than the 777s.

At least experience from the 777s will hopefully stop the 555s from having such a bumpy introduction in the North East.

 

[L401CJF]

A mate of mine tried to catch one yesterday, it turned up and the doors wouldn't open apparently so it was taken out if service.

 

[Skie]

Times have changed and there was a pandemic, but there's much more to it than that.

Times have changed, and now all new fleets do take inordinate amounts of time to get into service. But trains now are much more complex, as is the infrastructure to support them.

The 507s weren’t “new” either, being an iteration of the design already introduced (and prototyped!) down south.

 

[prod_pep]

The 507s might not have been a new design entirely, but they certainly were new to Merseyside staff. Even the 313s, which pioneered this design, the first second-generation EMU and novel in many ways, took less than six months from first delivery to service introduction. The PEPs (i.e. the actual PEPs, the 445/6s) were substantially different from the production-run design as well.

Despite the advancements in technology, it still shouldn't be the case that the 777s are as unreliable as this over three years since the first was delivered.