Message to some photographers and videographers: Sorry people but i need to rant.

[richieb1971]

When I enter the room I usually speak without thinking and regret it later.

I have been told to count to 10 a few times.

 

[jopsuk]

If you're implying that the shots in the linked video were obtained by railway property trespass, I'm not sure that this is necessarily true - it is stated that a ladder was used to overcome the high walls and fences, but there seems to be no reason to doubt that the ladder and person remained on the public side. I didn't watch the entire sequence so I may have missed something, but what I saw could easily have been filmed from the public side. Whether the field was trespassed upon is another matter!

At the time linked to the camera seems to be on the ground within the railway boundary

 

[najaB]

At the time linked to the camera seems to be on the ground within the railway boundary

Might be. Or it might be a trick of the lens. If the railway is on a bit of an embankment at that point (which it does appear to be), and the videographer is using a step ladder to get a clear view above the fence (which it does say in the video description) then it's entirely possible that both them and the camera are safely behind the fence (which would be just out of view towards the right hand side of frame).

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I can't believe I am reading this!

So I'm an idiot then. (1) I am alive, I'm kicking. I have common sense you know.(2)

A train can't hit me if I am 10 feet from it and from the track no matter what the sign says.

In both examples of Nuneaton and Leicester I failed to see the sign, but yes I did follow the rules after being approached by personnel. I just didn't like the tone of the people that caught me.(3)

Compared to Rallying, Isle of Man TT events, you are 1000x safer sitting at the end of a platform compared to the spectators in those sports

Edit - The signs are overkill (4). So its a rule thing, rather than safety. And I do get that. Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know (5) ... But in some cases I didn't travel 50 miles to get crappy shots. Since these events I rarely go to stations.(6). I mean once a year.. so you won't find me at the end of many stations throughout my lifetime.. the guys that approached me put me off for life. I will only go to little unmanned stations.(7)

1/ Well you said it.
2/ Really? Then why don't you use it?
3/ But you brought that "attitude" on yourself by going into an area you weren't allowed.
4/ Only because idiots can't use common sense and think they know better than the staff. Do you see a pattern here?
5/ So you know you are doing wrong but think you know better and ignore the rules? Do you see a pattern here?
6/ Good!
7/ So you are now confirming that you will become a Trespasser on purpose where people won't see you. Do you realise that because of this comment you could end up causing delays when a driver reports a trespasser? See point 1!!

Your behaviour and your attitude is exactly why spotters and gricers have a bad name.

I whole heartedly agree with every response you have made here.

RitchieB1971Maybe you should watch this video again,

https://youtu.be/b8ZDXCd59-U

Remind yourself where the first bloke in the video has got that tripod, is that safe? NO!!! its over the platform edge! Wether he whips it out of the way in time or not is irrelevant.

the guy that nearly got hit by the train stood on the crossing off the platform ramp with the video camera, was he safe? NO!!! He was stood just a couple of feet away from the running rail and within the envelope of the track gague. A wider train would have wiped him out.

How fast was that turbostar going? Potentially as high as 100mph and no one saw it coming!!! because its approach was masked by the attention drawn towards, and the smoke from the kettle masking the approaching turbostar. These are the people who think they know better, just as you think you know better!

One word.....

IDIOTS!!!

 

[TeaTrain]

I cannot believe what I have been reading in this thread. The people who are trying to justify that its ok to go where you are not trained or allowed to be is unbelievable. Do you really think that you are equipped to go on or near the line? The very fact that you think drivers or other staff just waltz onto the track and that means you can; directly undermines the training and work that goes into obtaining the right to do so. Not to mention we can't just go wondering where we like. It doesnt work that way. Its extremely dangerous even when trained to go on the line. It infuriates me when people think that because they know about trains or sit at home with the train simulators they can do it the same. Dont get me wrong I know many of the regular train hobbyists along my route and they are polite. I also enjoy the simulators on pc. As well as the training sim at Chester.

You will attract heat when you say stupid things and make it out like you have the right to tresspass. You don't. And im glad you don't go to the stations much anymore because you clearly don't deserve to and you are not competant enough to respect WHY the rules are there. Its because time and time again the 'professional workers' have to face the very very real consequences that do, and will continue to happen, when idiots think the rules don't apply to them.

And let me tell you. When you realise something has been dragged underneath your train. You go to check what it is and it dawns on you what you are looking at. Whats left of someone who thought they were safe. Someone who thought that the rules dont apply to them or the signage wasnt directed at them. Its not nice. Its frustrating. And thats why you will not be able to justify your actions here. Logic does not apply to your statements of 'knowing' when your safe. Because your not trained to know what is and isnt safe. And before you say you have common sense...I will give you an example. People think that you will always hear when a train is coming. But you get taught in pts about the wind and the tractions that use the railway. Because depending on the weather and train you cant hear it. And you just go 1 metre too far and get knocked or swept.

I realise I am opening myself for a slating. But I am passionate about my job and all that it signifies. The safety of my passengers and crew. And for that I am not going to apologise.

woooosahhhh and breath...

 

[najaB]

I realise I am opening myself for a slating.

Not from anyone whose opinion matters.

 

[Llanigraham]

I realise I am opening myself for a slating. But I am passionate about my job and all that it signifies. The safety of my passengers and crew. And for that I am not going to apologise.

Not from me!!
Well said.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

When you realise something has been dragged underneath your train. You go to check what it is and it dawns on you what you are looking at. Whats left of someone who thought they were safe. Someone who thought that the rules dont apply to them or the signage wasnt directed at them..

I have personally never gone through that myself. Come close a few times, been the train before or the one after. Once thanks to the quick actions of the other train I avoided being the one going through it in the opposite direction. Another I avoided as I took daily leave.

I certainly hope I NEVER have to get through that. I would no doubt be shocked at such a tragic accident, but to think that person could have been an individual who ought to know better but instead believed they knew better and could have been entirely avoided would really be disheartening!

 

[D1009]

The signs are overkill. So its a rule thing, rather than safety. And I do get that. Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know... But in some cases I didn't travel 50 miles to get crappy shots. Since these events I rarely go to stations.. I mean once a year.. so you won't find me at the end of many stations throughout my lifetime.. the guys that approached me put me off for life. I will only go to little unmanned stations.

Has it occurred to you can often get far better shots or videos from away from the line completely? If you look through the photo features in railway magazines, some of the most impressive are taken from a long way away. I can't understand photographers who insist on being so near the subject, because not only is it potentially dangerous, but the chances are you are going to spoil other peoples shots by being there. That means you're selfish.

When I enter the room I usually speak without thinking and regret it later.

I have been told to count to 10 a few times.

I hope you are continuing to do that.

 

[richieb1971]

That video linked is mine. I don't know if thats just some 1 in a million coincidence or someone is investigating me.

The description states a ladder was used at Radwell and Oakley. The section of the video portrayed as being illegal was not at any of those places as the OLE is in place, its at Millbrook road near Ampthill tunnel.

For the record the HST and Colas 60 were filmed with the tripod duct taped to the fence pole. It wasn't the tightest so you can see the very slight swivel (look around the edges) when the HST passes the wind sways the camera very slightly. I might add that part of the trick of videoing is creating the effect that there is no obstacles in the way when there actually is.

The Meridian class 222 was quite an extreme zoom shot from well back from the fence. It just so happened the ground was a teeny bit higher there. I would have used that to film the other way but a big bush is present right at the angle I would be filming. So I had to use 2 different vantage points to get those shots.

The property is a NR access point and there is a phone mast there as well. The sign only says "no fly tipping".

And people walk dogs down there.

I take the ladder with me places because NR have put some ridiculous 7 foot high walls on the bridges. I mean, you can't even see the railway from some of the bridges anymore. Its like you might as well put the whole system in a tunnel.

Lower farm road just had a suicide and I spoke to a NR guy there, he said the high fence man is coming soon. He even said to me that in America they put benches besides the track SO YOU CAN SEE THE TRAINS. In this country though, its all high walls and fences.

 

[DarloRich]

Oh dear..........

 

[Frontera2]

I'll just leave this here:

https://youtu.be/wM7BX43nXIg

 

[Minilad]

I'll just leave this here:

https://youtu.be/wM7BX43nXIg

Ahhhh. Good old Clint

 

[Tracked]

When I enter the room I usually speak without thinking and regret it later.

Yeah, but also you've been told not to enter the room

 

[D1009]

Yeah, but also you've been told not to enter the room

He's made it quite clear he doesn't do as he's told anyway.

 

[Llanigraham]

I take the ladder with me places because NR have put some ridiculous 7 foot high walls on the bridges. I mean, you can't even see the railway from some of the bridges anymore. Its like you might as well put the whole system in a tunnel.

Lower farm road just had a suicide and I spoke to a NR guy there, he said the high fence man is coming soon. He even said to me that in America they put benches besides the track SO YOU CAN SEE THE TRAINS. In this country though, its all high walls and fences.

You really don't get it, do you?
The railway is NOT there for your enjoyment or to further what I consider your puerile ideals, it is there as a transport mechanism.

When I enter the room I usually speak without thinking and regret it later.

I have been told to count to 10 a few times.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice and think before you speak or type on this forum! :roll:

 

[Llanigraham]

He's made it quite clear he CAN'T do as he's told anyway.

Corrected that for you.

 

[najaB]

You really don't get it, do you?
The railway is NOT there for your enjoyment or to further what I consider your puerile ideals, it is there as a transport mechanism.

That's not really fair though as there's no reason that it can't be both. While richieb1971 has shown that his decision-making isn't always the best, it is perfectly possible to safely partake in spotting by respecting the notices and rules.

Today's young railway enthusiast is tomorrow's railway worker.

 

[ComUtoR]

You really don't get it, do you?
The railway is NOT there for your enjoyment

But people do enjoy it. Kids love standing on bridges waving at trains, trains make for superb photography, and some weirdoes like collecting numbers in little books (think before you reply please) People really do like trains and do travel on them for sheer enjoyment. Its weird but each to their own.

How can a balance be gained. Could viewing points be introduced ? Could there be at point on the platform specifically set aside for the photographers ? The free for all approach clearly isn't working and some of the more over zealous are ruining it for the generally well behaved and respectful ones.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I take the ladder with me places because NR have put some ridiculous 7 foot high walls on the bridges. I mean, you can't even see the railway from some of the bridges anymore. Its like you might as well put the whole system in a tunnel.

It's all being done for a reason, though some people seem to think it's to irritate photographers.

We're rebuilding bridges with high parapets mainly to prevent people, such as yourself, from acting as an Undesignated Earthing Point for our 25kV OLE. It doesn't take much - a photographer knocking their camera bag over a parapet, then grabbing to catch it can be enough to give the person a massive electric shock, the bag doesn't even need to touch the catenary, it'll arc, particularly on a damp day.

There's also some issues with parapet integrity, highlighted by incidents such as the Oxshott and then again at Froxfield last year, the high parapets being used for electrification are capable of absorbing a considerable impact force, and deflecting the larger LGVs now operating on the roads.

 

[richieb1971]

So now we have established that my work is done from the right side of the fence, now I need to be told that the railways are there "not for my enjoyment".

If you go the airports, there is sometimes a place for plane enthusiasts to sit, stand, they can bring any equipment they want and nobody says anything. Its a designated spot that is tolerated for spotters or made especially for them.

Since the bridge making north of Bedford went ahead, only Sharnbrook Junction and Lower Farm road Bromham have any line of sight worth giving.

I asked NR via email if the railway needed to be hidden, since the old bridges (especially Radwell) gave extremely great views. Its a fantastic height, you can see for a mile, its tremendous. Now unless you take a ladder you can't see anything but brick. Its become a lonely place that was once a place of meeting points.

Now don't get me wrong, it does make me a little mad and I do see the reason for it. But it is hiding the railways, it is making the landscape less interesting, it does stop a father taking 2 little ones out on the bridge to look at the trains.

Its not end of the world I know. But its a step in the wrong direction I think.

Harrowden Junction north of Wellingborough is such a lovely place for spotters. It has a little lay by for your car, and you can see the railway in both directions in absolute perfect safety. I just wish more of those locations could be found.

Thanks for the heads up on the OHLE.


It makes me a little sad that enthusiasts and professional workers cannot work together to make a safe and enjoyable railway. Events like the Flying Scotsman are a perfect illustration that 1000 people sitting on a platform is not safe.

And in contrast the carriage sidings in York are a perfect illustration of common sense. There is a place you can drink, dine and watch trains. There is only a wooden fence separating the tracks from the enthusiasts. Wow, what an unbelievable contrast compared to Bedford, with their 7 foot high walls. :roll:

 

[ComUtoR]

It makes me a little sad that enthusiasts and professional workers cannot work together to make a safe and enjoyable railway. Events like the Flying Scotsman are a perfect illustration that 1000 people sitting on a platform is not safe.

And in contrast the carriage sidings in York are a perfect illustration of common sense. There is a place you can drink, dine and watch trains. There is only a wooden fence separating the tracks from the enthusiasts. Wow, what an unbelievable contrast compared to Bedford, with their 7 foot high walls. :roll:

So you want enthusiasts and works to work together but Bedford, with their high walls warrants eye rolling. That's you being petulant not "working together"

 

[richieb1971]

So why if I go north, the attitude to fences and walls are relatively relaxed compared to the south?

I also noticed that if private property is adjacent to the track its just a wire perimeter fence. But if its anywhere near a public foot path or road, its a very big wall or fence with spikes on top.

In Bromham the local allotment community is opening their gates to the public for the next passing of the Flying Scotsman as it sits adjacent to the track. What a wonderful thought aye? That people can watch trains from the right side of the fence in relatively safety, even in numbers.

If this type of attitude was adopted, promoted.. then I believe places with railway views could be good business opportunities. Imagine a restaurant at Sharnbrook on the curve where you could eat and see trains going past. Thats the type of thing I would like to see. I went to a place similar in the USA in Indiana. Great stuff.

 

[DaleCooper]

Thanks for the heads up on the OHLE.

What other safety concerns are you unaware of, or are you being sarcastic?

 

[bramling]

So now we have established that my work is done from the right side of the fence, now I need to be told that the railways are there "not for my enjoyment".

If you go the airports, there is sometimes a place for plane enthusiasts to sit, stand, they can bring any equipment they want and nobody says anything. Its a designated spot that is tolerated for spotters or made especially for them.

Since the bridge making north of Bedford went ahead, only Sharnbrook Junction and Lower Farm road Bromham have any line of sight worth giving.

I asked NR via email if the railway needed to be hidden, since the old bridges (especially Radwell) gave extremely great views. Its a fantastic height, you can see for a mile, its tremendous. Now unless you take a ladder you can't see anything but brick. Its become a lonely place that was once a place of meeting points.

Now don't get me wrong, it does make me a little mad and I do see the reason for it. But it is hiding the railways, it is making the landscape less interesting, it does stop a father taking 2 little ones out on the bridge to look at the trains.

Its not end of the world I know. But its a step in the wrong direction I think.

Harrowden Junction north of Wellingborough is such a lovely place for spotters. It has a little lay by for your car, and you can see the railway in both directions in absolute perfect safety. I just wish more of those locations could be found.

Thanks for the heads up on the OHLE.


It makes me a little sad that enthusiasts and professional workers cannot work together to make a safe and enjoyable railway. Events like the Flying Scotsman are a perfect illustration that 1000 people sitting on a platform is not safe.

And in contrast the carriage sidings in York are a perfect illustration of common sense. There is a place you can drink, dine and watch trains. There is only a wooden fence separating the tracks from the enthusiasts. Wow, what an unbelievable contrast compared to Bedford, with their 7 foot high walls. :roll:

To be honest, this thread became excessively emotive ages ago.

The *reality* is that *most* of the time enthusiasts and railway staff co-exist quite happily. Whilst naturally some staff are more welcoming than others, in general most staff don't care so long as enthusiasts don't interfere with their duties.

Obviously there will be bad apples on both sides of the tree.

I sense absolutely no corporate desire for a ban, and staff certainly wouldn't be happy having to go round challenging every spotter or photographer on a station. There are already measures in place for dealing with people who cause problems, be they enthusiasts or anyone else. Whilst there are undoubtedly locations or occasions where enthusiasts cause problems (e.g. the recent Flying Scotsman antics), this remains very much the exception to the rule, and I can personally attest that if I were to make a ranked list of problem groups which cause me nuisance at work, enthusiasts would be quite far down the list.

 

[richieb1971]

What other safety concerns are you unaware of, or are you being sarcastic?

The arcing comment was news to me. I have heard about arcing before when I watched Richard Hammonds Bullet train documentary.

A friend of mine from school (lost contact years ago) did a bridge inspection on the ECML and somehow positioned his body in such a way that his tape measure in his pocket extended out and hit the wire. He died instantly. So I am aware of the dangers of OHLE.

Its not dangers that fuel this debate. Its the fact that some signage states a rule that implies danger, but there are more dangerous places on the railway that are legal to be in. But rules are rules.

There comes a time as an enthusiast, a person who likes the British countryside and beautiful railways to go through it, see's an opportunity to capture a moment in time. Sometimes that gets the better of you. But I am sure that most enthusiasts carrying £1000's of equipment are careful, are reasonably educated people.

And emotionally invested in what they are doing

 

[DaleCooper]

The arcing comment was news to me. I have heard about arcing before when I watched Richard Hammonds Bullet train documentary.

A friend of mine from school (lost contact years ago) did a bridge inspection on the ECML and somehow positioned his body in such a way that his tape measure in his pocket extended out and hit the wire. He died instantly. So I am aware of the dangers of OHLE.

Its not dangers that fuel this debate. Its the fact that some signage states a rule that implies danger, but there are more dangerous places on the railway that are legal to be in. But rules are rules.

There comes a time as an enthusiast, a person who likes the British countryside and beautiful railways to go through it, see's an opportunity to capture a moment in time. Sometimes that gets the better of you. But I am sure that most enthusiasts carrying £1000's of equipment are careful, are reasonably educated people.

And emotionally invested in what they are doing

So you're an expert on which places are dangerous and which are safe but you didn't know about arcing. Time for a bit of self awareness.

 

[richieb1971]

So you're an expert on which places are dangerous and which are safe but you didn't know about arcing. Time for a bit of self awareness.

Your position has been made clear. Stay away from live wires, don't do acrobatic filming techniques, stay behind the fence, don't bother anyone.. Wow, what a life that would be.

People choose to do daring things everyday, like skiing, diving, mountain climbing.. all these things kill more people than anything we are talking about. To be honest I have NEVER heard of an enthusiast dying on the railways. Suicidal people, workman yes.. but never an enthusiast.

 

[DaleCooper]

Your position has been made clear. Stay away from live wires, don't do acrobatic filming techniques, stay behind the fence, don't bother anyone.. Wow, what a life that would be.

That's exactly what the majority of sensible adults do but I wouldn't want you to miss that adrenaline rush that you get from the extreme sport of railway photography.

People choose to do daring things everyday, like skiing, diving, mountain climbing.. all these things kill more people than anything we are talking about. To be honest I have NEVER heard of an enthusiast dying on the railways. Suicidal people, workman yes.. but never an enthusiast.

Yes people die taking part in some sports but when they do it doesn't result in travel disruption for thousands of other people and the reason you've never heard of an enthusiast being killed is probably because the majority don't have your disregard for safety.

 

[richieb1971]

That's exactly what the majority of sensible adults do but I wouldn't want you to miss that adrenaline rush that you get from the extreme sport of railway photography.



Yes people die taking part in some sports but when they do it doesn't result in travel disruption for thousands of other people and the reason you've never heard of an enthusiast being killed is probably because the majority don't have your disregard for safety.

I don't have a disregard for safety. I wouldn't put myself in harms way on purpose and I have NEVER EVER disrupted train services. From what I have witnessed in the past month or two regarding Flying Scotsman there are 1000's of people out there you should be more worried about than me. I was on Sandy station platform that day whilst people were climbing over fences and walking down verges. It was me pointing at them, not the other way around.