Message to some photographers and videographers: Sorry people but i need to rant.

[OMGitsDAVE]

I have never understood the need to be down the line, or on the line for that matter. The people putting themselves in that type of danger know exactly what they're putting themselves in for, yet still plead ignorance. It's rediculous and is endangering the lives of not just yourself, but many others.

It is a selfish act, for what - to get a better picture?

 

[richieb1971]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

 

[Llanigraham]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

Good!!
Do you think that you are exempt from any signage or barriers?
You aren't!!
End of story!!
That attitude is exactly what is causing this problem in the first place. :roll:

Perhaps what is needed is a few high profile prosecutions for Trespass of people who don't think Rules apply to them.

 

[najaB]

The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

Okay, lets look at this one. 1cm past the post - probably just as safe. 1m past the post - maybe not as safe. 10m past the post - definitely not safe. So do we make the rule 'Stay this side of the post, or a little bit past if it feels safe, but not too far or it might be dangerous' or do we just say 'Don't go past the post.'?

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

Erm... it's their job and they've been trained and hold PTS certifications. You're an amateur pursuing a hobby. Hardly a like for like comparison.

 

[Deepgreen]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

I'm afraid you have done yourself no favours here - the placement of signs and other objects on platforms (or elsewhere) is not an issue for personal discretion by 'users' (i.e. passengers and enthusiasts) - they may appear (or even be) illogical at times, but that is not the point. By some people ignoring the rules we are all put at greater risk of sanction. However, when you have been told to "stop going to the end" - does that mean past signs/barriers or within the permitted public area? If the latter, and you have not transgressed in any other way, that could be challenged.

 

[axlecounter]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

The problem is: have you been instructed on what is safe and what is not? And even when the answer is yes, signs can be there to remind that this place seems safe, but for some reason can become dangerous. And the reason may be unclear to you or others, but the fact that there is a reason should be enough.

 

[t_star2001uk]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

You are exactly the sort of person that i started this thread about. I just hope that you pay attention when you are told to stay in the safe area of platforms.

Yes as a driver i can just walk off of the end of a platform but i have a Personal Track Safety certificate, which all PTS holders, not just drivers are re certified on periodically. Just because i hold a PTS card it does not entitle me to walk on the track as and when i please, i can only go track side if my duties require me to do so.

 

[miami]

You are exactly the sort of person that i started this thread about. I just hope that you pay attention when you are told to stay in the safe area of platforms.

Yes as a driver i can just walk off of the end of a platform but i have a Personal Track Safety certificate, which all PTS holders, not just drivers are re certified on periodically. Just because i hold a PTS card it does not entitle me to walk on the track as and when i please, i can only go track side if my duties require me to do so.

So you're saying that it's a managed risk in relation to running the railway, undertaken for a specific purpose, and agreed by a strict process, with regular refreshers, updates, and a procedure to change operation upon any last-second changes to the environment?

And you're saying this isn't the same as someone saying "Well it looked all right"?

 

[Llanigraham]

So you're saying that it's a managed risk in relation to running the railway, undertaken for a specific purpose, and agreed by a strict process, with regular refreshers, updates, and a procedure to change operation upon any last-second changes to the environment?

And you're saying this isn't the same as someone saying "Well it looked all right"?

No it isn't the same, as well you know!

Those who hold PTS certificates have received training to get that certificate. Often the risks are not obvious.
Members of the public are not trained and therefore do NOT know whether something is safe or not.

I held PTS for my work, but if I go out on a Preserved Line then it is not transferable and I have to undertake their training.

 

[miami]

No it isn't the same, as well you know!

Those who hold PTS certificates have received training to get that certificate. Often the risks are not obvious.
Members of the public are not trained and therefore do NOT know whether something is safe or not.

I held PTS for my work, but if I go out on a Preserved Line then it is not transferable and I have to undertake their training.

Sorry, should have wrapped some <sarcasm> tags around it

I can see when a trainspotter will let the excitement of the moment get the better of them - we're all human

I find the fact people defend this in the cold light of day, and moreso come out with "drivers do it, so why can't I". It's an amazing world viewpoint.

 

[hounddog]

Sorry, should have wrapped some <sarcasm> tags around it
.

I don't think you needed to in that case. Anyone who read it properly would have seen your meaning.

 

[Robertj21a]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

Sounds like you are a bit of an idiot. What right do you have to decide where you go, regardless of notices etc ?

 

[jopsuk]

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

You're exactly the sort of person the original post was about. You think you know better, you think you have some sort of right to go where you're told, by signs or by staff, not to.

 

[D1009]

I try to stay away from stations and the politics and rules.

By which you mean you are going to trespass in places you are less likely to be caught.

 

[al78]

I find the fact people defend this in the cold light of day, and moreso come out with "drivers do it, so why can't I". It's an amazing world viewpoint.

I'm not surprised about the attitude, people think like this all the time (drivers breaking the speed limit is one example I can think of). I think it is related to the Dunning Kruger effect, the unskilled fail to recognise their own incompetance and fail to recognise genuine skill in others.

 

[jopsuk]

By which you mean you are going to trespass in places you are less likely to be caught.

Really not sure wha you could mean?

 

[t_star2001uk]

This guy is a prime example

https://youtu.be/16kCRTFJr04

Only a couple of inches to the side and the result could have very different.

 

[richieb1971]

So I'm an idiot then. I am alive, I'm kicking. I have common sense you know.

A train can't hit me if I am 10 feet from it and from the track no matter what the sign says.

In both examples of Nuneaton and Leicester I failed to see the sign, but yes I did follow the rules after being approached by personnel. I just didn't like the tone of the people that caught me.

Compared to Rallying, Isle of Man TT events, you are 1000x safer sitting at the end of a platform compared to the spectators in those sports

Edit - The signs are overkill. So its a rule thing, rather than safety. And I do get that. Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know... But in some cases I didn't travel 50 miles to get crappy shots. Since these events I rarely go to stations.. I mean once a year.. so you won't find me at the end of many stations throughout my lifetime.. the guys that approached me put me off for life. I will only go to little unmanned stations.

 

[Deepgreen]

So I'm an idiot then. I am alive, I'm kicking. I have common sense you know.

A train can't hit me if I am 10 feet from it and from the track no matter what the sign says.

In both examples of Nuneaton and Leicester I failed to see the sign, but yes I did follow the rules after being approached by personnel. I just didn't like the tone of the people that caught me.

Compared to Rallying, Isle of Man TT events, you are 1000x safer sitting at the end of a platform compared to the spectators in those sports

Edit - The signs are overkill. So its a rule thing, rather than safety. And I do get that. Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know... But in some cases I didn't travel 50 miles to get crappy shots. Since these events I rarely go to stations.. I mean once a year.. so you won't find me at the end of many stations throughout my lifetime.. the guys that approached me put me off for life. I will only go to little unmanned stations.

If you are an enthusiast (and given that you have already said you video trains, I assume you are) then I would expect you to check for such signs and obey them - it's not just about your safety and your common sense, it's also about the reputation everyone else gains from the few who ignore the rules. I also wonder what you will do at the "little unmanned stations" you mention to get that shot - down the ramp, up a signal post...? From the line side do you scale that annoying fence or wall because they are in the way and you know best? You freely admit that you trangress the rules, so expect very little in the way of supportive responses from those of us who don't, not least because we want to raise the reputation of railway enthusiasts, not lower it even further.

 

[najaB]

Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know...

So I'm an idiot then.

You said it, not us.

 

[Bellbell]

So I'm an idiot then. I am alive, I'm kicking. I have common sense you know.

A train can't hit me if I am 10 feet from it and from the track no matter what the sign says.

In both examples of Nuneaton and Leicester I failed to see the sign, but yes I did follow the rules after being approached by personnel. I just didn't like the tone of the people that caught me.

Compared to Rallying, Isle of Man TT events, you are 1000x safer sitting at the end of a platform compared to the spectators in those sports

Edit - The signs are overkill. So its a rule thing, rather than safety. And I do get that. Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know... But in some cases I didn't travel 50 miles to get crappy shots. Since these events I rarely go to stations.. I mean once a year.. so you won't find me at the end of many stations throughout my lifetime.. the guys that approached me put me off for life. I will only go to little unmanned stations.

So just to be clear, a couple of run ins with platform staff has been enough to sour your view of platform staff everywhere. Do you have the self awareness to link that to the fact that some staff get fed up with spotters?

I don't particularly have a problem with spotting. I don't understand the appeal of collecting unit numbers although I can see the appeal of steam. Whatever, it doesn't harm me and frankly I think good on someone for having a hobby - better that than just sitting on their arse all day.

But then I read nonsense like this and think for the love of God, does the world really need any more photos of trains? Even if it does, somehow, is that need sufficient to disregard the rules?

Do you travel by train? Drivers at my depot have refused to allow people to travel after they've shown a disregard for the rules and ignored signage.

 

[Llanigraham]

So I'm an idiot then. (1) I am alive, I'm kicking. I have common sense you know.(2)

A train can't hit me if I am 10 feet from it and from the track no matter what the sign says.

In both examples of Nuneaton and Leicester I failed to see the sign, but yes I did follow the rules after being approached by personnel. I just didn't like the tone of the people that caught me.(3)

Compared to Rallying, Isle of Man TT events, you are 1000x safer sitting at the end of a platform compared to the spectators in those sports

Edit - The signs are overkill (4). So its a rule thing, rather than safety. And I do get that. Its just that when I want a shot and I can't get a shot because of a post, pole, gantry or whatever and going an extra 1 metre passed the post does get you the right shot without being in any more danger than being on the safe side.. Well, common sense kicks in to do what you have to do...its against the rules I know (5) ... But in some cases I didn't travel 50 miles to get crappy shots. Since these events I rarely go to stations.(6). I mean once a year.. so you won't find me at the end of many stations throughout my lifetime.. the guys that approached me put me off for life. I will only go to little unmanned stations.(7)

1/ Well you said it.
2/ Really? Then why don't you use it?
3/ But you brought that "attitude" on yourself by going into an area you weren't allowed.
4/ Only because idiots can't use common sense and think they know better than the staff. Do you see a pattern here?
5/ So you know you are doing wrong but think you know better and ignore the rules? Do you see a pattern here?
6/ Good!
7/ So you are now confirming that you will become a Trespasser on purpose where people won't see you. Do you realise that because of this comment you could end up causing delays when a driver reports a trespasser? See point 1!!

Your behaviour and your attitude is exactly why spotters and gricers have a bad name.

 

[richieb1971]

Look, I've said my piece and I am not the only rail enthusiast that thinks some of the rules are a bit OTT.

However, I have already stated that I don't go to stations that often anymore and sit in fields (on the right side of the fences and walls) and get shots where nobody is likely to bother me. I find line side positions to be much more rewarding than sitting in stations where people get in your way and you often get bothered.

On the subject of stations. Peterborough has fences on each side of the station, Bletchley has fences on each side of the station. I've never jumped over them because thats stupid. I've never been approached on those stations and have had enjoyable stays there.

I thought we were talking about posts that are at least 10 feet short of the station end. Where the platform just continues beyond that point and i've made a couple of extra steps beyond that point. The laws of physics don't change within that extra metre and that is my point. I've also stated quite clearly that i've abide by rules and regulations since and not had any further issues.

When I were a kid those signs were not there and I often went right down the ramp at the end of the platform and never got bothered. How times have changed.

As for going to smaller stations. There is often nobody around and even if I want a cigarette I often leave the platform as the sign clearly says "no smoking on the station". So as you can see i'm not a rebel.

 

[axlecounter]

I hope some day people will leave behind that "I'm wrong - I know it - but be kind to me" mentality. It's really everywhere.

You have your own common sense that tells you when it's safe to trespass? Ok, that's fine (no it's not, but let's pretend it is). I can live with that. But please, when you get caught, just say "ok, I'm sorry" and leave it at that. It will make you look clever.

 

[najaB]

Look, I've said my piece and I am not the only rail enthusiast that thinks some of the rules are a bit OTT.

If you don't agree with the rule, then you try to get it changed. You don't just ignore it (as you said you do).

It might get you your all-important shot, but it could help to get spotters banned entirely.

 

[Deepgreen]

Really not sure wha you could mean?

If you're implying that the shots in the linked video were obtained by railway property trespass, I'm not sure that this is necessarily true - it is stated that a ladder was used to overcome the high walls and fences, but there seems to be no reason to doubt that the ladder and person remained on the public side. I didn't watch the entire sequence so I may have missed something, but what I saw could easily have been filmed from the public side. Whether the field was trespassed upon is another matter!

 

[richieb1971]

Some of you are interpreting things wrongly.

I don't go to fields and smaller stations to break the law. I go there because I can get shots safely, without obstacles and without confrontations.

I was wrong to go where I did and made amends. But you guys want to make a meal of it like a bad reporter.

 

[najaB]

Some of you are interpreting things wrongly.

We can only interpret what you write:

As a video guy myself I can say that I can tell when i'm safe and when I am not. The guys at Nuneaton caught me past the last post once and went mental at me. Which is ridiculous because I was as safe on one side of the post as the other.

How can that be read as anything other than you saying the 'guys an Nuneaton' are jobsworths?

I've also been told a few times at the north end of Leicester to stop going to the end. Yet drivers walk onto the track like its a walk in the park.

And how can that be read as anything other than you saying you should be allowed on the track because drivers are?

 

[richieb1971]

We can only interpret what you write:
How can that be read as anything other than you saying the 'guys an Nuneaton' are jobsworths?
And how can that be read as anything other than you saying you should be allowed on the track because drivers are?

I didn't go anywhere near the track on any of the incidents mentioned. I merely went past the sign that says "passengers are not to cross beyond this post". But because I was running down the platform and the train was coming I wasn't paying attention, got caught, got a good telling off and never did it again. Sometimes people get caught out in life like that.

Its the signs themselves I have an issue with (and there position), not really with the ruling or the employees of the railway. But again, since I Don't go to stations anymore I Can hardly be guilty of recommitting an offense.

 

[Deepgreen]

I didn't go anywhere near the track on any of the incidents mentioned. I merely went past the sign that says "passengers are not to cross beyond this post". But because I was running down the platform and the train was coming I wasn't paying attention, got caught, got a good telling off and never did it again. Sometimes people get caught out in life like that.

Its the signs themselves I have an issue with (and there position), not really with the ruling or the employees of the railway. But again, since I Don't go to stations anymore I Can hardly be guilty of recommitting an offense.

Making a genuine mistake in a hurry is one thing, but openly stating that you think that common sense leads you to ignore some signs in favour of getting the shot you want is another thing entirely. I think your summary of your mind-set has led us to conclude that you may show a similar attitude to rules in other circumstances. The railway as a whole doesn't need that attitude. Anyhow, I suspect you have got the message by now and that not much is to be gained by re-stating it!