Metrolink (GM)

[Mojo]

Can anyone advise what this route is supposed to mean?

It appears for a Stockport to Moston ticket. The plan was to go into Piccadilly and then walk to Victoria and onwards to Moston. Does this route mean it's valid for a free transfer on the Tram?

 

[sonic2009]

Yes it does give a free transfer So I know and believe. If it wasn't routed Metrolink (GM) you'd have to go to Salford Cresecent and Change, or walk between Piccadilly and Victoria.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

A single, return or season ticket for a rail journey wholly within Greater Manchester that requires a trip on the Metrolink will be 'Rte Metrolink (GM)' to show it is valid on the trams. Tickets that are not 'Rte Metrolink (GM)' are not valid on the tram. Tickets to tram destinations and local rovers are always valid on the trams in the city zone.

 

[34D]

A single, return or season ticket for a rail journey wholly within Greater Manchester that requires a trip on the Metrolink will be 'Rte Metrolink (GM)' to show it is valid on the trams. Tickets that are not 'Rte Metrolink (GM)' are not valid on the tram. Tickets to tram destinations and local rovers are always valid on the trams in the city zone.

Would such a ticket insist upon the tram? Or could the passenger choose either salford crescent or walk?

Would say a Birmingham-Rochdale journey be valid on the tram too?

 

[Welshman]

No - as it's not wholly within Greater Manchester.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Would such a ticket insist upon the tram? Or could the passenger choose either salford crescent or walk?

Would say a Birmingham-Rochdale journey be valid on the tram too?

The journey has to be wholly within Greater Manchester to be valid on the tram so no, a Birmingham-Rochdale ticket would not be valid on the tram.

Take, as an example, Patricroft to Stalybridge, it is 'Rte Any Permitted' because there are direct trains during the day Monday to Saturday (no service at Patricroft on a Sunday) and an easy connection at Victoria at other times, no city centre use of the tram is required on those journeys so it is not 'Rte Metrolink (GM)'.

On a journey from Rochdale to Glossop, most people would use the tram across the City as there is no shorter way to do it, so the ticket is 'Rte Metrolink (GM)' to allow the use of the tram.

Does it insist on using the tram? I think technically yes, because it is a routeing on the ticket, but few staff would be bothered if you didn't and few would notice if you walked across the city centre.

Some journeys across Greater Manchester have a choice of 'Rte Any Permitted' and 'Rte Metrolink (GM)' tickets, with the former typically more expensive than the latter.

 

[Mojo]

Thanks all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry, just one more question; are these tickets valid for break of journey on the Tram segment?

 

[142094]

Not sure how any member of staff would be able to tell if you had walked instead of using the tram, unless they were extra keen/desperate.

 

[Mojo]

Not sure how any member of staff would be able to tell if you had walked instead of using the tram, unless they were extra keen/desperate.

I was more interested as to whether it was possible to break your journey once the Tram segment has started.

 

[yorkie]

Would say a Birmingham-Rochdale journey be valid on the tram too?

No. Using NFM10 prices in this example, lets say you do this journey departing on the 0831 or 0857 departures from BHM, returning later that day.

No, sorry you are a premium long distance passenger paying a whopping £77.00 and should be fleeced for every penny (according to XC and ATOC) and if you boarded the tram with this ticket you could be treated like a criminal. Quite frankly the Government would prefer you to drive instead.

However if you use a combination of tickets intended for local people making local journeys, then Birmingham to Stafford (£10.70 Anytime Day Rtn), Stafford to Stockport (£15.40 Off Peak Day Return) and Stockport to Rochdale (£3.60 Off Peak Day Return) then you are only paying £29.70 and have thus paid the magical "correct fare" for the journey including the Tram at no additional cost and you will not be treated like a criminal on the tram as your much much cheaper tickets are valid! You would be around £50 better off as well!

Our system is ridiculous but I would not fundamentally change it because any replacement system would make it harder for people to avoid being ripped off. We are better off retaining the existing system as at least there are many ways to avoid being effectively defrauded by the TOCs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was more interested as to whether it was possible to break your journey once the Tram segment has started.

I think someone here may be able to answer, I will PM him

 

[First class]

The answer at first glance is No in my opinion - BUT!

Tickets showing “route Metrolink” are valid on Metrolink in the City Zone to allow transfer between Piccadilly, Victoria and Deansgate stations. This applies only to appropriate journeys which both start and finish in Greater Manchester. It is shown automatically on the ticket where this applies. Where this is not shown, passengers must purchase a separate Metrolink ticket on their arrival in Manchester if they wish to transfer between stations using Metrolink.

That appears to me to say only valid at Piccadilly, Victoria or Deansgate.

That said, there is nothing specifically barring Break of Journey, and in the absence of a restriction like 8A which prohibits outward BoJ, I think it may be difficult to come to a consensus. The Metrolink Conditions of Carriage probably apply.

RAIL TICKETS
47. Single and return journey tickets and season tickets issued by other companies for journeys to or from or via stops or routes on the Metrolink System are valid on Metrolink as indicated in the conditions of issue of each individual ticket.

The ticket restriction in question is B1, so I assume it is valid for BoJ in both directions!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I'm not sure, the Metrolink CoC mentions nothing about break of journey but does say....

....
RAIL TICKETS
47. Single and return journey tickets and season tickets issued by other companies for journeys to or from or via stops or routes on the Metrolink System are valid on Metrolink as indicated in the conditions of issue of each individual ticket.
....

Which I think means, if your ticket is valid for break of journey on the railway, it is for the tram, if not, it isn't. But without checking the manual at work, that is all I can really say on the matter. Normally single tram tickets and the outward portion of a return tram ticket give you 90 minutes to complete your journey, but this simply can't apply to railway tickets that go onto the tram network (or at least it can't be enforceable).

 

[Chapeltom]

Surely there is no way of physically stopping a BoJ? I walk it normally on a Route Metrolink (GM) ticket, 15 mins from Picc to Vic, often quicker than waiting up to 12 mins for a Bury service and then 10 mins on the tram!

 

[John @ home]

The question of whether one is allowed to break a journey at a tram stop when traveling by tram using a valid rail ticket is an interesting one. I have learned here that it depends on whether the rail ticket being used allows break of journey.

But I think a journey is deemed to be broken at a tram stop only if that tram stop is within a railway station, e.g. Altrincham or Piccadilly.

NRCoC Condition 16 states that "you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start your journey other than ..." .

If I board a tram at Piccadilly, travel to Piccadilly Gardens, alight from the tram, leave the tram stop, go somewhere else, then at some future time return, board a tram at Piccadilly Gardens and continue my journey, I do not leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s station. Therefore I do not break my journey.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

"Train Company" and "Rail Service Company" are defined in the NRCoC and imo does not include Metrolink.

....

(n) “Rail Service Company” means Network Rail, any person (other than a Train
Company) who operates a station and any person who hires rolling stock to a Train
Company, but does not include London Underground;

....

(q) “Train Company” means a company operating passenger railway services which
is required to apply these Conditions to its tickets under a condition of the
Passenger Licence granted to it by the Office of Rail Regulation. A list of these
companies can be found in Appendix C. “Train Companies” means all or more
than one of these Companies;

....

LIST OF TRAIN COMPANIES AT OCTOBER 2011
Arriva Trains Wales/Trenau Arriva Cymru Limited
c2c Rail Limited
East Coast Main Line Company Limited (trading as East Coast)
East Midlands Trains Limited
First Capital Connect Limited
First Greater Western Limited (trading as First Great Western)
First Greater Western Limited (trading as Heathrow Connect, on services towards or from
Heathrow Airport, between Hayes & Harlington and London Paddington ONLY)
First ScotRail Limited (trading as Scotrail)
First/Keolis TransPennine Limited (trading as TransPennine Express)
Grand Central Railway Company Limited (trading as Grand Central)
Hull Trains Company Limited
London & Birmingham Railway Limited (trading as London Midland)
London Overground Rail Operations Limited
London & South Eastern Railway Limited (trading as Southeastern)
London Eastern Railway Limited (trading as National Express East Anglia)
London Eastern Railway Limited (trading as Stansted Express)
Merseyrail Electrics 2002 Limited
Southern Railway Limited (trading as Southern)
Southern Railway Limited (trading as Gatwick Express)
Northern Rail Limited
Stagecoach South Western Trains Limited (trading as South West Trains)
Stagecoach South Western Trains Limited (trading as Island Line)
The Chiltern Railway Company Limited
West Coast Trains Limited (trading as Virgin Trains)
XC Trains Limited (trading as CrossCountry)

....

Furthermore, the full condition is....

....

16. Starting, breaking or ending a journey at intermediate stations

You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you
want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return
ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. However, these rights may not apply to
some types of tickets for which a break of journey is prohibited, in which case the relevant
Train Companies will make this clear in their notices and other publications.

If you start, break and resume, or end your journey at an intermediate station
when you are not entitled to do so, you will be liable to pay an excess fare. This excess
fare will be the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold and the price of
the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to
start, break and resume, or end your journey at that station on the service(s) you have
used.

A ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground and/or
Docklands Light Railway does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of
the stations on these networks unless it is a Season Ticket or a Travelcard.

For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your
journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start
your journey other than:

(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff.

....

So, using the tram to go from Piccadilly to Victoria (for example), to facilitate getting from one train to another, is not breaking a journey, but going from Piccadilly to Piccadilly Gardens, getting off the tram and doing 'something else', then getting on another one to go to Victoria would be breaking your journey.

 

[Mojo]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was trying to ascertain which policy they follow, as there seems to be three different types:
- LUL: you can exit on a + cross-London transfer but not resume
- Advance/BoJ restricted: you cannot exit, nor finish/start short
- Most tickets: you can exit, start short and finish short
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely there is no way of physically stopping a BoJ? I walk it normally on a Route Metrolink (GM) ticket, 15 mins from Picc to Vic, often quicker than waiting up to 12 mins for a Bury service and then 10 mins on the tram!

But this isn't what I was asking.

If I board a tram at Piccadilly, travel to Piccadilly Gardens, alight from the tram, leave the tram stop, go somewhere else, then at some future time return, board a tram at Piccadilly Gardens and continue my journey.

Is the scenario I had in mind, or an alternative option would be to walk to (say) Market Street and catch the Tram from there.