Midland Mainline Electricification

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whhistle

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BBC News said:
Midlands line 'to be electrified'

A £500m scheme to electrify the Midland Mainline is expected to be announced by the government, the BBC understands.

Transport Secretary Justine Greening is set to outline plans to complete the electrification of the route from Sheffield to London on Monday.

The decision comes after business groups and politicians in South Yorkshire and the East Midlands campaigned for the line to be upgraded.

At present the line is electrified only between St Pancras station and Bedford.

Extending overhead wires to the rest of the line would see the current fleet of inter-city diesel trains replaced with electric ones.

However, it is not yet known if the announcement will also see track improvements, especially at Derby and Leicester stations, which might potentially improve journey times.

The Derby-based train-maker Bombardier, which was threatened with closure after missing out on a contract last year, is likely to be a beneficiary of the government's plans, Mr Dodge, the BBC's political reporter for Derby said.

A spokesman for the Derby and Derbyshire Rail Forum said: "If the Midland Mainline is upgraded, the supply chain waits ready to meet the needs of the industry.

"We hope it is not just electrification - there are great benefits to be found in upgrading the current infrastructure."

In June, Conservative MP for Kettering Philip Hollobone told MPs that while £12bn had been spent in recent years on Britain's rail network, just £200m had gone to the Midland Mainline.

Source - BBC

Still interested what they will do with Leicester's London Road junction.
 
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RailUK Forums

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The detail I guess will follow, but you would hope electric trains could run to Leeds via Wakefield and Doncaster. It would be nice if the following lines were included.

Kettering - Corby
Birmingham - Derby
The long eaton junction
Nottingham - chesterfield and the Erewash valley.

Shall see on Monday.
 

Yew

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Is it bad that part of me doesn't want electrification of the MML, for the fear of pendolinos?
 

tbtc

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Is it bad that part of me doesn't want electrification of the MML, for the fear of pendolinos?

No danger of anything that plush. Mention of Bombardier getting work as a result of this suggests panto cars in 222s (which would be A Bad Thing on the MML, when we could have proper EMUs here with panto 222s moving to XC).

Regardless, the journeys on the MML are nothing like as long as the London -Glasgow route
 

notoemt

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I'm torn about this. On the one hand I would like to get to London much faster than the current 1hr 30 mins during peak time. On the other hand I and a lot of other people are already worrying about how much the season ticket will go upto at the end of the year. Wondering if we would still be able to afford to work in London. This is going to make the price even higher. On cosmetic note I'm not a fan of 222s I find them dark and there seems to be less in the seating areas and a lot less luggage space than the HST (even with the improvements).
 

John55

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I'm torn about this. On the one hand I would like to get to London much faster than the current 1hr 30 mins during peak time. On the other hand I and a lot of other people are already worrying about how much the season ticket will go upto at the end of the year. Wondering if we would still be able to afford to work in London. This is going to make the price even higher. On cosmetic note I'm not a fan of 222s I find them dark and there seems to be less in the seating areas and a lot less luggage space than the HST (even with the improvements).

With a positive business case the cost of running the service with electric trains will be lower than with diesel trains. There is no particular need to increase prices to pay for electrification. There may be an opportunity for the railway to charge more for a better service but that's life.
 

Masboroughlad

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IF the Meridians are to get an extra carriage with panto, I assume there will be more new trains too to replace HSTs?

Where will the HSTs go? A swap with XC for some Voyagers?
 

rail-britain

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Posted on another forum, surprised about the Sheffield station improvements mentioned.
This is most likely a franchise commitment by East Midlands Trains, so it is no real surprise there has been no announcement until the electrification details were available
 

SuperOwl86

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Its not the station its self this was improved towards the end of Midland Mainline. It mentions new track layout and additional platforms at Sheffield.
 

Yew

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IF the Meridians are to get an extra carriage with panto, I assume there will be more new trains too to replace HSTs?

Where will the HSTs go? A swap with XC for some Voyagers?

My thoughts are;

Either all trains will be replaced for electric only operation, possibly with some diesels kept on to operate some off wires services (Probably HST's as by the time they are life expired hopefully these extra routes will be electrified, however id ElectroDiesel meridians happen, then most likely those). These electric trains may be pendolinos, possibly extra IEP's. another thought is that Intercity 225's could be cascaded if they are replaced.

I suppose if the wiring is completed before any new rolling stock, we could see 90's modified to work with the HST MK'3 rakes, but I feel this would be Unlikely.
 
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Combined with the 125mph upgrade on the MML between London and Trent Junction, this electrification project should bring some worthwhile journey time reductions.

When I was a lad, it used to take around 2 hrs 45 to do the run from Sheffield to London. After 125 upgrade and electrification, could 1 hr 50 hr be possible ?
 

rail-britain

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When I was a lad, it used to take around 2 hrs 45 to do the run from Sheffield to London. After 125 upgrade and electrification, could 1 hr 50 hr be possible ?
No (based on Press Release)
The current time is typically 2 hour and 15 minutes
This will come down to 2 hour and 05 minutes
 

aformeruser

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IF the Meridians are to get an extra carriage with panto, I assume there will be more new trains too to replace HSTs?

Where will the HSTs go? A swap with XC for some Voyagers?

Would be more sense in IEP being electric only and the order including new trains for MML. Then the 222s with a pantograph vehicle can replace the HSTs on services that include a section that isn't currently or set to be electrified.

Corby-London should be cheaper more commuter/regional style style EMUs opposed to IEP.

The detail I guess will follow, but you would hope electric trains could run to Leeds via Wakefield and Doncaster. It would be nice if the following lines were included.

Kettering - Corby
Birmingham - Derby
The long eaton junction
Nottingham - chesterfield and the Erewash valley.

Shall see on Monday.

Are there any local services which can switch to EMUs as a direct result of MML electrification without any add-on bits or splitting up services?
 

els

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£500m seems like a bargain when you consider that's no more expensive than a chord to Heathrow.
 

rail-britain

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Oh, do you have the press release link ?
See post #18 above
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1150245&postcount=18
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are there any local services which can switch to EMUs as a direct result of MML electrification without any add-on bits or splitting up services?
There are many options that will be possible, once the MML and "in-fill" projects are completed
This then presents some issues for existing franchise holders, as many will not have planned for this and so will continue to use DMU
However, a franchise holder could renegotiate which in turn would allow either for capacity improvements and/or cascade of the DMU to other more suitable franchises

Equally, if EMU are introduced this could fragment some routes further, with passengers having to not only change between TOC, but also between train types
 

John55

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See post #18 above
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1150245&postcount=18
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are many options that will be possible, once the MML and "in-fill" projects are completed
This then presents some issues for existing franchise holders, as many will not have planned for this and so will continue to use DMU
However, a franchise holder could renegotiate which in turn would allow either for capacity improvements and/or cascade of the DMU to other more suitable franchises

Equally, if EMU are introduced this could fragment some routes further, with passengers having to not only change between TOC, but also between train types

Before anyone gets even more carried away remember this is the HLOS for CP5 running from 2014 - 2019. So absolutely nothing will happen for 2 years.

If you look at the IIP issued last September (on the NR website) which is the shopping list from which the DfT is selecting the schemes for CP5 you will note that MML electrification follows GWML electrification. So it is a good few years yet before anyone needs to worry about replacing rolling stock or modifying franchises.

I note EMTs seems to expire in 2015 so the new one will no doubt include all the necessary provisions.
 

D365

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Along with the eVoyager project, an order for a "Class 223" fleet could be added. This would be a DEMU based on the upgraded D/E Class 222s, and might prove useful somewhere.

With electrification, Thameslink services could also be extended further north, potentially to Kettering or beyond. Reopening (Kettering-)Corby-Oakham, yes please!

Note that any new carriages or units for the Voyager fleet would more likely than not be made outside Derby, as the factory is not equipped for steel-carriage production.
 

kjhskj75

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IF the Meridians are to get an extra carriage with panto, I assume there will be more new trains too to replace HSTs?

Where will the HSTs go? A swap with XC for some Voyagers?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the plan was for the MML to get 91+Mk4s cascaded from the ECML, which would get IEPs in return.

The HST are nearing the end of their design lives and will be scrapped.

Some Meridians might be retained if the Erewash valley isn't to be wired, but the rest will likely go to GW for the Penzance line. (There's nowhere else I can think of using them).

I reckon converting meridians to electric is a non-starter.
 

swt_passenger

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If you look at the IIP issued last September (on the NR website) which is the shopping list from which the DfT is selecting the schemes for CP5 you will note that MML electrification follows GWML electrification. So it is a good few years yet before anyone needs to worry about replacing rolling stock or modifying franchises.

Good point well made.

GWML is only partly a CP4 project, it was added well after CP4 started hence its position as almost the last item in the England/Wales section of the online CP4 delivery plan.

If Control Periods were seen as a calendar GWML wiring would cover CP4.5 - CP5.5, so MML could be thought of as CP5.5 - CP6.5 IYSWIM.

A number of CP4 enhancements are only just starting now, and that doesn't mean they are late, just that when they were announced back in 2007 it seems to me that people didn't really take in that projects would still be starting 6 or 7 years from then, while still meeting their target dates...
 
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