Milton Keynes - Virgin and/or London Midland

[Abpj17]

I need to get from Euston to MK, Monday/tomorrow early afternoon/evening and return in rush hour tomorrow to arrive by around 9.30 at the latest. This mean it'll be difficult to target a specific train.

I've tried my best and the ticketting options are just ever so confusing.

I know there are V-only tickets. And not-V tickets. And that V don't accept gold-card discounts (which I have from Thameslink).

Grateful for any advice for which ticket I can get for a non-extortionate price, for the times set out above, and valid on a reasonable selection of trains that arrive at a non-crawling pace.

(oh, and whether it's worth bothering with option of getting off at Wolverton instead - or is that just too complicated; and/or if I got to wolverton - which would be helpful for the Tuesday morning, can I cut short at MK on the Monday?)

 

[IanD]

Very confusing.

London to MK on Monday afternoon and then return from MK to London Tuesday Morning?

I think you need the £22 Virgin only off peak return. This is valid on the 0847 from Mk arriving Euston 0924.

Not valid in the evening peak from Euston though ie between 1645 and 1900.

Otherwise a combination of singles. Off peak day single London to MK is £10.15 with your railcard (not valid 1645-1900). Anytime day single MK - London is £19.60 so £29.75 all in. Returning from Wolverton would be £23 anytime day single.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But beware if using "Virgin only" - southbound there are to all intents and purposes 1tph (there are actually 3, but they are in a very narrow time band). Northbound they are better spread, but there are none at all between around 1630-1843 (the latter is peak).

I think unless you just show up and buy the cheapest relevant single for each journey at the time you show up, you're going to have to plan what's most important to you (cost vs. frequency/speed vs. peak time) and accept restrictions as relevant.

 

[Hadders]

A few things to note.

Gold Card discounted tickets are only available for travel after 0930 so this won't be any use for you.
There aren't many Virgin Trains between Milton Keynes and London in the peaks.

Therefore I'd buy a Euston - Milton Keynes (or Wolverton if that helps) Off Peak Return costing £30.30 (or £32.70 for Wolverton). This does have evening peak restrictions on the outward portion but the return portion is valid on any train.

No problem with finishing short with the Wolverton ticket.

Where is your annual season ticket between? This could help.

 

[IanD]

It's worth noting that the £22 Virgin only fare is also valid on the return bit on all Virgin Trains between MK and London, it's just that none of them stop here between 0714 and 0847.

 

[Abpj17]

Thank you

I know two operators is meant to be good for competition - but it's actually just more confusing...and you end up paying more than you might need if you buy in advance/reduce choice *sighs*

"Therefore I'd buy a Euston - Milton Keynes (or Wolverton if that helps) Off Peak Return costing £30.30 (or £32.70 for Wolverton). This does have evening peak restrictions on the outward portion but the return portion is valid on any train."

looks like the best bet (only if I can get a train before the evening peak kicks in), and as a LM ticket, I'd get the gold card discount as well? (Gold card is annual season from Leagrave to London zones)

Advice the V. is infrequent in the peaks is helpful..that tips me towards using LM - longer journey, but more frequent and gives me increased choice of Wolverton.

 

[Hadders]

If you're returning before 0930 on Tuesday then don't get a Gold Card discounted ticket as it's only valid for travel after 0930.

If you've got a Leagrave - London Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard I'd buy:

Boundary Zone 6 - Milton Keynes with Off Peak Day Single with Gold Card discount for Monday which will cost £12.00.
Milton Keynes - Boundary Zone 6 Anytime Day Single for Tuesday which will cost £18.20 (it's the same price from Wolverton)

Total £30.20 and will allow you to travel on any train, London Midland or Virgin.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another possible option - if you're not in a hurry (though your post suggests you probably are), use your season to travel to Luton and take the Stagecoach 99 to/from MK from outside Luton station. I would expect this to be cheaper than any of the options noted so far.

 

[theblackwatch]

I have amended the subject line of this thread so that, in accordance with the forum rules, it does not contain a made up abbreviation.

 

[Abpj17]

Another possible option - if you're not in a hurry (though your post suggests you probably are), use your season to travel to Luton and take the Stagecoach 99 to/from MK from outside Luton station. I would expect this to be cheaper than any of the options noted so far.

Yeah; the bus service is hugely unreliable. The few times I've caught from MK to Luton it's been at least 20 minutes late leaving. The connection times don't seem to work very well either.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah; the bus service is hugely unreliable. The few times I've caught from MK to Luton it's been at least 20 minutes late leaving. The connection times don't seem to work very well either.

It's somewhat badly affected by traffic on the M1 - it's not as if they don't try - the buses lay over at Milton Keynes Central for 55 minutes on every journey - very unusual for bus services of any kind.

 

[IanD]

If you're returning before 0930 on Tuesday then don't get a Gold Card discounted ticket as it's only valid for travel after 0930.

If you've got a Leagrave - London Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard I'd buy:

Boundary Zone 6 - Milton Keynes with Off Peak Day Single with Gold Card discount for Monday which will cost £12.00.

Why, when the off peak single from Euston is £10.15?

Milton Keynes - Boundary Zone 6 Anytime Day Single for Tuesday which will cost £18.20 (it's the same price from Wolverton)

Total £30.20 and will allow you to travel on any train, London Midland or Virgin.

The Gold Card discount is not valid on Virgin trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have amended the subject line of this thread so that, in accordance with the forum rules, it does not contain a made up abbreviation.

It wasn't a made up abbreviation, it's a widely used abbreviation for Milton Keynes (the town) rather than Milton Keynes Central, the station.

 

[Hadders]

Why, when the off peak single from Euston is £10.15?



The Gold Card discount is not valid on Virgin trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It wasn't a made up abbreviation, it's a widely used abbreviation for Milton Keynes (the town) rather than Milton Keynes Central, the station.

Apologies - good point about the Gold Card not being valid on Virgin.

The Off Peak Day Single from Euston would also make sense.

 

[yorkie]

It wasn't a made up abbreviation, it's a widely used abbreviation for Milton Keynes (the town) rather than Milton Keynes Central, the station.

We require the full name to be used once, as not everyone will know that

.... the ticketting options are just ever so confusing....

The Train Companies, through their National Rail Enquiries website, disagree with you by claiming that rail fares are "simple", as all companies purport to use "the same" T&Cs. The name of your ticket (e.g. Off Peak) allegedly "describes when you can ... use a ticket", meaning you can apparently "choose your rail ticket with confidence" and, they go on to claim, you will "know exactly where you stand" (source).

However I agree with you; the Train Companies are not being truthful and the options are confusing!

See this post by Island, which is quite apt for this thread! (Note that the restrictions may have changed since 2013 when it was posted).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Gold Card discount is not valid on Virgin trains..

I'm not convinced that restriction is NRCoC compliant, given that any TOC restriction must be "printed on the ticket". Can of worms that one!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...If you've got a Leagrave - London Zones 1-6 Annual Travelcard I'd buy:

Boundary Zone 6 - Milton Keynes .....

Leagrave - London Zones 1-6 is actually valid on the West Coast Main Line (WCML) as far North as Watford Jn (as it would be valid via St Albans Abbey) however the ticket from Euston also is cheaper than a ticket from Watford Jn (yes, the pricing really is that bonkers), so it's moot.

 

[Abpj17]

Leagrave - London Zones 1-6 is actually valid on the West Coast Main Line (WCML) as far North as Watford Jn (as it would be valid via St Albans Abbey) however the ticket from Euston also is cheaper than a ticket from Watford Jn (yes, the pricing really is that bonkers), so it's moot.

Meh - it' a mess. The other distinction is that I'd have to queue up at the ticket office for a boundary extension type ticket, if from Euston at least I can use the machines.

And thank you for the link to island's post - that's exactly why it's so confusing. Albeit, I think mine is probably worse because it's coming back the next day. It almost makes me grateful for Thameslink 'simplicity'. The real question is what is the quickest/not-rip-off service I can get from Euston to MK (including time spent buying a ticket, trying to work out what train it is valid on, the variety of journey lengths, inbound delays etc.)

oh, and I am naive to think that the peak/off-peak criteria apply to the time-tabled departures rather than the actual departures if there are delays?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct, peak/off peak is per the timetable.

 

[Greeby]

Milton Keynes Central ticketing is simple if you're going anywhere besides London. We're the only station in a sizeable radius that has to put up with this. At least at the other stations around the network, having multiple route columns is usually because there is actually more than one route to London. Or at least, there is a meaningful difference in price and restrictions.

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not convinced that restriction is NRCoC compliant, given that any TOC restriction must be "printed on the ticket". Can of worms that one!

Worse when their machines at Euston sell an any permitted Euston - MK ticket with gold card discount which isn't valid on their trains!

Terribly confusing to real people!

 

[Paul Kelly]

Is this what you mean:

Worse when their machines at Euston sell an any permitted Euston - MK ticket with gold card discount without warning that it isn't valid on their trains!

Surely you're not suggesting that TOC machines should only sell tickets that can be used on that company's trains? That would be far worse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the suggestion is that if you select a Gold Card discount it should be made clear it is not valid on VT or East Coast (thus rendering a Gold Card discounted non-LM Only ticket from Euston to MKC almost[1] redundant).

[1] Not totally; you may want to for some odd reason switch to Southern at Harrow.

 

[DarloRich]

Is this what you mean:
Surely you're not suggesting that TOC machines should only sell tickets that can be used on that company's trains? That would be far worse.

correct - that is what I meant to say.

 

[Bletchleyite]

correct - that is what I meant to say.

I disagree, then. All ticket machines should sell all tickets from that station; if anything they should be banned from branding them rather than restricting what they can issue (I believe there is already a planned move this way).

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I too have to go to MKC soon, I have looked on Virgin West Coast website and it seems to be offering a connection using VTWC services and offering a NSE Discount. So I am surprised from the above posts that they won't allow Gold Card discounts?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I too have to go to MKC soon, I have looked on Virgin West Coast website and it seems to be offering a connection using VTWC services and offering a NSE Discount. So I am surprised from the above posts that they won't allow Gold Card discounts?

It is correct - Virgin Trains do accept the Network Railcard, but NOT the Gold Card. The two products have grown apart somewhat and now cover very different areas; the fact that the discounted Railcard also available to Gold Card holders includes the option of a NSE for themselves confirms this further.

 

[DarloRich]

It is correct - Virgin Trains do accept the Network Railcard, but NOT the Gold Card. The two products have grown apart somewhat and now cover very different areas; the fact that the discounted Railcard also available to Gold Card holders includes the option of a NSE for themselves confirms this further.

how much is a Network Railcard? I wounder how many journeys i would have to make on virgin between MKC and Euston to recover the cost?

Although i have heard tell form a colleague of thier Network Railcard discounted ticket being refused at the human barrier
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I disagree, then. All ticket machines should sell all tickets from that station; if anything they should be banned from branding them rather than restricting what they can issue (I believe there is already a planned move this way).

i am more worried about there NOT being a warning. I have seen several real people caught out by this so there is clearly an element of confusion - especially around "Any Permitted" - people are conditioned to any permitted ( in the case of MK - Euston) meaning Virgin and/orLM and/or Southern.

By all means sell the tickets but make it clear Virgin Trains do not accept that type of ticket

 

[Bletchleyite]

how much is a Network Railcard? I wounder how many journeys i would have to make on virgin between MKC and Euston to recover the cost?

£30, same as all the others. At £15.90 VT only CDR 6 days' worth, it appears, provided you're travelling on a weekend and thus avoid the minimum fare on weekdays of £13.

If you have a Gold Card, you can get one for £10, so two.

Although i have heard tell form a colleague of thier Network Railcard discounted ticket being refused at the human barrier

Reasons to be cheerful about automatic barriers? Sounds like clueless staff as ever - the NSE is *definitely* valid on VT, the Gold Card definitely isn't. The two cards have grown apart over the years, the minimum fare being the first difference, then the current review having massively extended the area but removed validity on VT.

i am more worried about there NOT being a warning. I have seen several real people caught out by this so there is clearly an element of confusion - especially around "Any Permitted" - people are conditioned to any permitted ( in the case of MK - Euston) meaning Virgin and/orLM and/or Southern.

By all means sell the tickets but make it clear Virgin Trains do not accept that type of ticket

Is it not like any other type of Railcard in that if you purchase one, you need to make yourself acquainted with its T&Cs, which apply over and above those of any ticket you may purchase with it? "Not valid on any Virgin trains" (EC or WC) is very easy to remember.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thinking on, VT validity aside, the Gold Card is heading towards being a National Railcard, is it not? Time to perhaps make it available for purchase, perhaps for a price a little lower than a Lichfield Trent Valley-Lichfield City annual season?

 

[DarloRich]

Is it not like any other type of Railcard in that if you purchase one, you need to make yourself acquainted with its T&Cs, which apply over and above those of any ticket you may purchase with it? "Not valid on any Virgin trains" (EC or WC) is very easy to remember.

To the majority of real people that is exactly what the gold card is: A railcard. We can suggest people read the T&C all we like. They don't. Tell them when buying the ticket from a machine, like staff at the ticket office do, and there is no comeback.

otherwise real people consider themselves to be being ripped off!

 

[Bletchleyite]

To the majority of real people that is exactly what the gold card is: A railcard.

And if you buy a Railcard you need to acquaint yourself with when you can use it and when you can't. Or if you are unfamiliar with that, you need to choose to buy your tickets from a staffed ticket office and ask the question. It's not as if that service is unavailable at Euston - far from it.

 

[DarloRich]

And if you buy a Railcard you need to acquaint yourself with when you can use it and when you can't. Or if you are unfamiliar with that, you need to choose to buy your tickets from a staffed ticket office and ask the question. It's not as if that service is unavailable at Euston - far from it.

Many people are not perfect. If you don't tell them about the restrictions ( and the machines DO tell you about other railcard restrictions) people will continue to feel they are being ripped off.

More importnantly the fact Virgin ( and others) were allowed to bail out of the scheme should be challenged in my opinion

 

[Bletchleyite]

More importnantly the fact Virgin ( and others) were allowed to bail out of the scheme should be challenged in my opinion

It's so close to being a National Railcard it might as well in my view become one. You only need to add Northern, ATW, ScotRail, bits of XC and the Virgin TOCs. Then just say if you have an annual season ticket you get a free National Railcard. Simple.