Mobile Phones in the cab

[notadriver]

The CCTV is there to protect drivers and passengers so let's not be too melodramatic

I'm not being melodramatic - how does driver facing CCTV protect passengers ? It only needs be pointed at the area where passengers get on. Don't forget I'm a bus driver too.

 

[ComUtoR]

Ours have to be switched off whilst in the cab and I have always used the GSM-R to contact anyone including recourses via this method

We are allowed to use the GSMR on the move and recently that has come in very handy. Our control is in the TOC phone book so we could contact them via the GSMR. CSR would have required a mobile.

Not allowed to do it with a mobile but I can have the same conversation using the GSMR. That is contradictory.

We have always been asked to give our mobile number to the Signaler when fault finding etc and its a fast method of communication when out on the ballast.

It is so much part of modern culture and mobile/tablet usage is growing on the railway I do believe it is time for a rule change to provide a better approach than an outright ban, especially as local policy seems to be overruling it anyway.



@notadriver
We have FFCCTV on some of our trains. I'm 100% in favor of it.

 

[notadriver]

Agreed - I'm pretty much expected to answer the cab to cab intercom or GSMR on the move if conditions allow me to do so. I was having a ride out with my driver manager when the conductor buzzed me up just after we started moving. Not wanting to show complacency answering the cab to cab phone I waited. My DM then said 'are you going to answer that?'

 

[Antman]

I'm not being melodramatic - how does driver facing CCTV protect passengers ? It only needs be pointed at the area where passengers get on. Don't forget I'm a bus driver too.

A passenger making a false and malicious allegation against you for example

 

[313103]

I used my mobile in the cab a few days ago and wondered how everyone feels about it.

We are allowed to use a mobile phone in the cab whilst the unit is stationary and the DRA has been applied. It is also part of our policy to call the fitters on our company supplied mobiles should we encounter a fault.

I asked the Signaler for permission to hang up his call so I could contact our fitters and investigate the fault and he could then replaces the signal to danger to run traffic past me and contact our control.

The whole process took approximately 7 minutes so the delay to passengers and other services were mitigated by the use of my company mobile.

With GSMR being cell based and having a phone book containing a wide variety of contact numbers is there any difference between using the GSMR terminal or a mobile phone ? Should all communication be banned and only Driver/Guard/Signaler be allowed ?

Does not matter how people on this forum should feel about it.

It was what RSSB say in the rule about mobile telephones and what your own companies instructions say about mobile phone use. These two are the driving factors about you using a mobile phone, not the opinions of people on a internet forum.

 

[Antman]

The whole banning of mobiles in my opinion was a knee jerk reaction to the Chatsworth accident in Los Angeles where the driver of the passenger train really took the ****.

If the trains on clear signals, is within speed then I really don't see much of an issue to use a mobile for work purposes and is it really any different to using GSMR, checking time sheets, documents etc etc.

You can't really have a rule where using mobiles is only allowed in such circumstances, road or rail, and people seem to be unable to self regulate so there's no other option really than a total ban

 

[notadriver]

You can't really have a rule where using mobiles is only allowed in such circumstances, road or rail, and people seem to be unable to self regulate so there's no other option really than a total ban

You can't compare road and rail. As I've mentioned in a previous post I'm required to answer calls whilst on the move (where possible) whereas drivers of road vehicles shouldn't be answering any kind of communication device at all whilst in motion. Also mobile phone use is common on the railways of other European countries. Despite this many coach drivers wear a Bluetooth headset to make and receive calls on the move.

Regarding your point about driver facing CCTV used to defend false allegations against bus drivers - I've never heard of them being used in such a way where the driver is vindicated in terms of mobile phone use.

 

[najaB]

I've never heard of them being used in such a way where the driver is vindicated in terms of mobile phone use.

But would you hear about incidents where a quick review of the CCTV meant that no action was taken? Certainly in your own depot you might, but a driver in another depot or a different company?

 

[notadriver]

But would you hear about incidents where a quick review of the CCTV meant that no action was taken? Certainly in your own depot you might, but a driver in another depot or a different company?

Yes I might. Facebook has a few groups for bus and coach drivers. I'm one of the admins for one such a group that has 1000+ members, mostly drivers from all around the country.

 

[najaB]

Yes I might. Facebook has a few groups for bus and coach drivers. I'm one of the admins for one such a group that has 1000+ members, mostly drivers from all around the country.

But it's possible the drivers don't even know about it. I would imagine that when a complaint/report comes in, the management will look at the CCTV before speaking to the driver. If the CCTV shows the driver wasn't on the phone, case closed. If it shows that (s)he was, then invite for a chat without tea or biscuits.

Certainly, that is the way I would do it.

 

[craigybagel]

Our company do not issue company mobile phones to drivers

How are you expected to be contacted in times of disruption etc if you don't have a phone ?

Thats where the guard comes in. If anyone at the company needs to pass info to the driver, be it from control or resources or whatever, it comes through the guard.

 

[notadriver]

Thats where the guard comes in. If anyone at the company needs to pass info to the driver, be it from control or resources or whatever, it comes through the guard.

I'm thinking off train during times of disruption. The guard wouldn't necessarily be there.

 

[scott118]

Thats where the guard comes in. If anyone at the company needs to pass info to the driver, be it from control or resources or whatever, it comes through the guard.

and if your TOC operates only as a DOO ?

 

[notadriver]

But it's possible the drivers don't even know about it. I would imagine that when a complaint/report comes in, the management will look at the CCTV before speaking to the driver. If the CCTV shows the driver wasn't on the phone, case closed. If it shows that (s)he was, then invite for a chat without tea or biscuits.



Certainly, that is the way I would do it.

That's the way a complaint was handled against me when I was on the trains. On the buses you're always guilty (called into the office regardless) until proved innocent.

 

[DasLunatic]

My company policy is strictly emergencies only for mobile so I'm a good little boy and keep it off, as for gsmr, we are only allowed to use if stationary.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a bit of grimmy in the mornings to wake up to, (or is that just me ��)

It is just you. Nick Grimshaw is a complete and utter git.
Besides, you could bring a little battery-powered radio into your cab...

 

[ComUtoR]

Does not matter how people on this forum should feel about it.

(...)

not the opinions of people on a internet forum.

I agree with what your saying in principle and there are many people on here who's opinions I couldn't give a toss about. However it does have other industry professionals with whom I can converse on a professional opinion and can give an alternative viewpoint. They also highlight points that I miss or overlook.

Other than industry professionals there are many people who are quite conversant with various legislation, other industries, and have a lot more technical knowledge than I.

The passenger perspective is just as important too. There are folks out there who will report a Driver for being on his mobile phone but do so without any form of context. Isn't the point of discussion to change that ignorance ?

One of the main drivers for change is how each TOC approaches the rulebook and various PDP's. The problem is that one rule doesn't suit every TOC and is a reason why the rule book has been evolving to its current form.

When I contacted the RSSB recently it was because I had an opinion that others shared and was not specifically mine. I gained that from listening to others, I just chose to act on it rather than bitch in the crew room. A forum is no different and this forum has a wide range of Drivers.

I can understand why some mobiles are outright banned, as highlighted, there is a Guard on board. DOO Vs Guards.... FIGHT !! ! ! ! I don't have the luxury of a Guard helping out. Mobiles are beneficial on a DOO train.

 

[Carlisle]

You can't compare road and rail. .

although considering the high number of casualties in the recent Spanish high speed derailment where phone use might have played a part , maybe we should

 

[notadriver]

although considering the high number of casualties in the recent Spanish high speed derailment where phone use might have played a part , maybe we should

What's that got to do with comparing road and rail ?

 

[Antman]

You can't compare road and rail. As I've mentioned in a previous post I'm required to answer calls whilst on the move (where possible) whereas drivers of road vehicles shouldn't be answering any kind of communication device at all whilst in motion. Also mobile phone use is common on the railways of other European countries. Despite this many coach drivers wear a Bluetooth headset to make and receive calls on the move.

Regarding your point about driver facing CCTV used to defend false allegations against bus drivers - I've never heard of them being used in such a way where the driver is vindicated in terms of mobile phone use.

Much the same in principle, not a particularly good idea to be using a mobile when doing any safety related task including operating machinery.

I'm sure CCTV has been used to vindicate drivers, as others said in most cases nobody would here about it and a driver who is doing nothing wrong has nothing to fear from CCTV, I never even thought about it when I was bus driving.

 

[ComUtoR]

Much the same in principle, not a particularly good idea to be using a mobile when doing any safety related task including operating machinery.

What if you are being talked through a problem ? We often get talked through rectifying a fault or keep the fitter on the phone so that we can relay what's happening on the ground.

 

[craigybagel]

I'm thinking off train during times of disruption. The guard wouldn't necessarily be there.

and if your TOC operates only as a DOO ?

Notadriver asked Tdk how people are supposed to get in touch with drivers at his TOC if drivers aren't allowed to have their phones on in the cab. As a guard at his TOC, which (thankfully for now) has no DOO services or plans to introduce any, I supplied the answer. If he's off train he'd presumably have his phone with him. On train, almost everything comes through the guard or through the signaller via GSMR.

 

[HowardGWR]

It seems to me that drivers should be equipped in the cab with a lump of coal, piece of string, paper and biro, so they can throw out their messages to signalmen when passing the signal box (the what?).

 

[GearJammer]

This just seems to be another thread that shows how the railway makes a mountain out of a molehill.

It does make me laugh how your latest GSMR has a handset you have to pick up, yet any decent modern truck has a Bluetooth/hands free system built into it, you just pair the phone to the truck and bingo, in my truck cab I can not only make and receive phone calls hands free but I can send and receive texts to.

Like I said, the railway seems to make mountains out of molehills, the technology is out there to be put into train cabs, but the railway for whatever reason chooses not to use it.

 

[A-driver]

and if your TOC operates only as a DOO ?

Simple. The driver is kept in the dark and the lasts to be told anything. So the passengers start coming up and saying "is it true you are now running fast from X-Z and no longer stopping at Y. You say no as you havnt been told that. Then upon arrival at X the box calls you and tells you not to stop at Y!

 

[scott118]

Simple. The driver is kept in the dark and the lasts to be told anything. So the passengers start coming up and saying "is it true you are now running fast from X-Z and no longer stopping at Y. You say no as you havnt been told that. Then upon arrival at X the box calls you and tells you not to stop at Y!

yes i know - i have been that driver....

 

[Johncleesefan]

I have too, (well trainee), sat in Swindon and hear the pa with guard (comps manager while guards on strike) announce were being held 15mins for a delayed hst connection so they can catch us. My di wasn't happy ??????

 

[SPADTrap]

I have too, (well trainee), sat in Swindon and hear the pa with guard (comps manager while guards on strike) announce were being held 15mins for a delayed hst connection so they can catch us. My di wasn't happy ��

Why I loved having a no nonsense doesn't do overtime minder when I was a trainee.

 

[Carlisle]

That's the way a complaint was handled against me when I was on the trains. On the buses you're always guilty (called into the office regardless) until proved innocent.

Yes that does seem to be mostly the norm on the busses in my experience too

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Simple. The driver is kept in the dark and the lasts to be told anything. So the passengers start coming up and saying "is it true you are now running fast from X-Z and no longer stopping at Y. You say no as you havnt been told that. Then upon arrival at X the box calls you and tells you not to stop at Y!

You should know by now as traincrew, we're treated like mushrooms, in the plain & simple fact we're kept in the dark & fed plenty of BS.

I've had a right barney with them, when they kept chopping & changing their minds about my calling pattern. In the end after the second amendment, I put my foot down & said to the signaller who was passing the messages to me.

Look, make up your ****ing mind, it's all very well you keep changing things, but you don't have to put up with irate punters, now make your final decision, because I will NOT accept any further changes, it's not fair on the punters! With that he hung up, called me back & said "Just go fast from ******** to **********" we'll deal with 'em.

I give them 3 strikes to get things right, get to strike 3 & you're OUT, no more changes. And I know that I'll get away with it too, because the conversations are recorded. The only thing I got pulled up for with that conversation was not using professional radio etiquette!

 

[XC90]

Poor drivers. Did you beat your chest when you told them that?

Total hero!