More Virgin website dishonesty

[tony_mac]

I haven't seen this particular piece of nonsense mentioned on here, but I have been busy!

On their website - e.g. search for Coventry to Reading

07:11 Coventry
08:14 London Euston
09:00 London Paddington
09:26 Reading Station

2:15 journey time

Results are based on the fastest available train

although I imagined that taking the direct Crosscountry train at 07:25 and arriving at 08:39 would be faster.

Does anyone else want to waste their time complaining to Virgin, Passenger Focus and the ORR?

 

[Nym]

They're sparing the public from using XC services?

 

[GadgetMan]

The Pendolino is faster than an XC Voyager. So technically the statement about fastest train is correct.

If it said quickest journey time however......

 

[185]

2:15 journey time


although I imagined that taking the direct Crosscountry train at 07:25 and arriving at 08:39 would be faster.

Does anyone else want to waste their time complaining to Virgin, Passenger Focus and the ORR?

Bit naughty. That would be like being told you have to go Liverpool Manchester via Crewe, simply to use the holy virgin.

Agree. Needs reporting to the independent people that monitor Virgin.

 

[calc7]

Bit naughty. That would be like being told you have to go Liverpool Manchester via Crewe, simply to use the holy virgin.

Agree. Needs reporting to the independent people that monitor Virgin.

Except that very few of their Liverpool trains stop at Crewe.

Agreed it's a fairly poor show. Any chance it's set up to promote journeys with Advances which may be available on VT but not XC?

 

[NSEFAN]

I'm not suprised Virgin will send you in their direction. They are a business afterall and have to try and increase revenue where possible. They shouldn't be saying that the journey is fastest, although they did mention the fastest trains which would technically be Pendolinos and HSTs!

I would use National Rail to find the train times, and then use the operators' sites to find any cheap ticket deals. That's always worked for me.

 

[IanD]

Search for London to Bradford and it usually suggests the via Manchester fare which of course it gets a bigger share of.

It claims that:

Results are based on the fastest available trains. Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available.

And if you click, it shows you the fares for the faster and generally cheaper Grand Central and ECML tickets - but still not necessarily the cheapest offerings on those routes.

 

[Simon11]

They're not break any rules and have a disclaimer to cover themselves.

 

[yorkie]

They're not break any rules

Aren't they? Well, what they are saying certainly isn't true. If there's no rule against that, then the rules are broken.

and have a disclaimer to cover themselves.

Is there? Where is it?

It says "Results are based on the fastest available trains. Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available." But the results are not based on the fastest available trains (by any sensible definition) and the 'check if slower routes' option does not work and I've never been able to get it to work (has anyone?). You can click "Check for trains" on every single option but all that happens is you get a screen full of "N/A"s! Even if that did work, it would be a false statement in my view.

 

[EM2]

Surely it depends on the ticket? If you're looking for an Advance, and there's none available on the XC service, then this may well be the fastest available train?

 

[OwlMan]

I haven't seen this particular piece of nonsense mentioned on here, but I have been busy!

On their website - e.g. search for Coventry to Reading

07:11 Coventry
08:14 London Euston
09:00 London Paddington
09:26 Reading Station

2:15 journey time


although I imagined that taking the direct Crosscountry train at 07:25 and arriving at 08:39 would be faster.

Does anyone else want to waste their time complaining to Virgin, Passenger Focus and the ORR?

There is a qualifier at the bottom (under the get times & tickets" button)

Our site is the best place for buying Virgin Trains fares.
Need more options? Advanced journey search

If you use the advanced search all operators are supplied.

 

[yorkie]

It still routes me via Euston when I try that.

So I put avoid Euston, but it insists on going via London anyway so gave me this:

07:25
Coventry
08:39
Reading Station
Train CROSSCOUNTRY 01h 14
08:52
Reading Station
09:21
London Paddington
Train FIRST GREAT WESTERN 00h 29
09:45
London Paddington
10:09
Reading Station
Train FIRST GREAT WESTERN 00h 24

If I choose avoid Paddington it gives me this:

07:31
Coventry
08:30
London Euston
Train VIRGIN TRAINS 00h 59
08:30
London Euston
09:20
London Waterloo
Tube n/a 00h 50
09:20
London Waterloo
10:40
Reading Station
Train SOUTH WEST TRAINS 01h 20

 

[flymo]

Just tried putting in avoiding London (all) and got


08:31 Coventry - Watford Junction arr 09:15 Train VIRGIN TRAINS
09:51 Watford Junction - Clapham Junction arr 10:34 SOUTHERN
10:46 Clapham Junction - Vauxhall arr 10:50 SOUTH WEST TRAINS
10:56 Vauxhall - Clapham Junction arr11:02 SOUTH WEST TRAINS
11:28 Clapham Junction - Reading Station arr 12:40 SOUTH WEST TRAINS

Bonkers, absolutely bonkers...

 

[34Short]

You'll find that the Virgin Trains ticketing system is run by TheTrainline.com.

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/terms-conditions/

"Agreement between the customer and thetrainline
Our enquiry and booking service (the "Booking Service") is offered as a service to you, the customer, by us, Trainline.com Limited (also referred to as "we", "our" and "thetrainline"), either via our website at www.buytickets.virgintrains.co.uk (the "Website"), or via our mobile application (the "Mobile Application")."

Later states this..

By default this Booking Service provides details of trains and fares which represent the fastest published journey times on the date and at the times selected. In some cases there may be cheaper fares available on other operators' routes or at off-peak times, in which case we provide a link to search for these.

If I do a search for Cardiff Central to Wolverhampton - I get options for Virgin, CrossCountry and London Midland.

Protecting their business, which they are obliged to do.

Hypothetical Question time.

You run a Newsagents, and someone comes in asking for a bag of crisps and a bottle of coke. All together this is priced at £2. Meanwhile, the Newsagents across the road from has the same stuff for sale at the price of £1.90.

Would you tell the customer that they can get it cheaper from the place across the road?

 

[RJ]

Aren't they? Well, what they are saying certainly isn't true. If there's no rule against that, then the rules are broken.

Is there? Where is it?

It says "Results are based on the fastest available trains. Click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available." But the results are not based on the fastest available trains (by any sensible definition) and the 'check if slower routes' option does not work and I've never been able to get it to work (has anyone?). You can click "Check for trains" on every single option but all that happens is you get a screen full of "N/A"s! Even if that did work, it would be a false statement in my view.

It works for me. Click the Not Via London fare and the XC services all come up!

 

[michael769]

Hypothetical Question time.

You run a Newsagents, and someone comes in asking for a bag of crisps and a bottle of coke. All together this is priced at £2. Meanwhile, the Newsagents across the road from has the same stuff for sale at the price of £1.90.

Would you tell the customer that they can get it cheaper from the place across the road?

I am not sure that is a good analogy as the newsagent does not sell the other newsagents stuff for them in the way that Virgin's site sells tickets for other ToCs.

 

[185]

Would you tell the customer that they can get it cheaper from the place across the road?

If I was running my sweet shop, no. My ice pops are 7p and are much better.

If I was running my multi-million quid government contracted rail company, and was worried about getting fined for not selling the customer the right ticket, and worried about being slung in the bin when contract renewal takes place...... errr.... well....

 

[34Short]

It works for me. Click the Not Via London fare and the XC services all come up!

Yup, the customer also has the choice of 'Going Via' too.

 

[pemma]

What makes this one worse is it's neither the fastest or the cheapest as the walk on fares are:

Ticket type/Route/Price
Off-Peak Return/Not Via London/£47.40
Off-Peak Return/Via London/£56.20
Anytime Return/Not Via London/£93.00
First Off-Peak Return/Not Via London/£119.00
Anytime Return/Via London/£175.00
First Anytime Return/Not Via London/£205.00
First Anytime Return/Via London/£281.00

Of course Virgin get revenue from the 'via London' fares.

 

[Greenback]

I am not sure that is a good analogy as the newsagent does not sell the other newsagents stuff for them in the way that Virgin's site sells tickets for other ToCs.

It's a poor analogy as newsagents across the UK are not subject to such things as impartial retailing or the newsagent settlement plan either!

 

[185]

It's a poor analogy as newsagents across the UK are not subject to such things as impartial retailing or the newsagent settlement plan either!

Lies. I've got this years copy of the Toffee Examiners Handbook.

 

[Simon11]

TOC websites are not obliged to be impartial, therefore there is no issues with only trying to sell their own tickets.

 

[calc7]

TOC websites are not obliged to be impartial, therefore there is no issues with only trying to sell their own tickets.

I agree that they should be allowed to push their own tickets, but sending customers on a 100-mile diversion via London is a little extreme...

Probably doesn't help that Coventry is run by VT and so some customers will think this is the obvious/only option.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If I was running my multi-million quid government contracted rail company, and was worried about getting fined for not selling the customer the right ticket, and worried about being slung in the bin when contract renewal takes place...... errr.... well....

Why would you be worried?
Do you believe that there is an effective Rail Regulator?
Do you believe that there is a statutory Passenger's Representative body?
Do you believe that the Government is interested in or influenced by ticket retailling?

I'd like to believe in these, too!

 

[Lrd]

The Pendolino is faster than an XC Voyager. So technically the statement about fastest train is correct.

They both do 125mph in service.

 

[calc7]

They both do 125mph in service.

An XC Voyager will not do 125mph anywhere between Coventry and Reading.

 

[LexyBoy]

An XC Voyager will not do 125mph anywhere between Coventry and Reading.

Not even between Didcot and Reading (on the mains)?

 

[yorkie]

I think they usually use the 'relief' lines, but they could use the main lines, so they could in theory get up to 125mph for a very short time.

It's a bit like Church Fenton - York; they'd usually use the Leeds lines (100mph) rather than the Normanton/main lines (which would be slower overall but they could briefly reach 125).

 

[calc7]

As yorkie says, I believe XC are booked for the relief lines.

My point was that even though they are 125mph-capable, it takes about 75 minutes to do about 80 miles.

 

[pemma]

If we're taking 'fastest train' literally, the 390s are capable of 140mph but limited to 125mph. A Ferrari is faster than a Vauxhall Corsa but both are able to run at the legal UK maximum speed of 70mph.

Then there is no guarantee the Virgin service will operate at 125mph. What if the tilt fails and it's limited to 110mph or what if a Pendolino fails and the Pretendolino set fills in?

Of course the speed the train runs at is irrelevant, it's the total journey time that affects which is the best option for the passenger.