Morecambe - Lancaster

[snowball]

Morecambe is an even shorter branch than Windermere. Are there any services from Morecambe or Heysham to places like Preston, Liverpool, Manchester or Carlisle, or do they all go to Leeds or Bradford?

 

[Eagle]

Morecambe is an even shorter branch than Windermere. Are there any services from Morecambe or Heysham to places like Preston, Liverpool, Manchester or Carlisle, or do they all go to Leeds or Bradford?

There is one early TPE service that goes via Morecambe, which is currently a Lancaster to Windermere service. But most of the time the branch is run as a shuttle by Northern, with about five or six services a day running through to Leeds.

 

[Dunc108]

All the recent talk of electrification projects got me thinking a bit about the Morecambe branch & how it could be included in future schemes, although its infrastructure is a bit more complicated than, say, Windermere or Blackpool South. Trackwork/capacity at Morecambe is quite generous for an early 1990's rebuild but its potential flexibility is often hampered by the double track beyond Bare Lane operating as 2 independent routes. The Heysham Branch has potential but operators have so far shown minimal enthusiasm for expanding beyond its current level.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The Heysham part of the branch has some potential, but limited because it generally does not go where people live. As I recall Network Rail did consider providing more services to Heysham in their NW Route Utilisation Strategy, but rejected the idea partly for that reason.

As far as the Lancaster-Morecambe branch is concerned, it has a lot of potential, especially because the main Lancaster-Morecambe road is so slow and congested. It's hard to be certain, but I get the impression a high proportion of the traffic on it is local traffic between Lancaster and Morecambe. This despite the problem that the service is irregular. That makes me think that the most useful - albeit very expensive and therefore not going to happen - long term solution would be to convert it to light rail, and add a few more stations along the route (Euston Road, Broadway and Ryelands). The main problem with that idea though is it would cause issues with sharing the main line north of Lancaster which may require separate tracks. I'd imagine the bridge over the River Lune would add a lot to the expense

More realistically, given that the line is going to remain as heavy rail, I can't see it being a priority for electrification since the relatively self-contained nature of the service limits the gains compared to somewhere like Windermere, where a lot of the traffic is long distance, and electrification gives the potential to provide more long-distance trains without lots of of diesel running under the wires. It could really do with a more regular - say, half-hourly, timetable, though - but that has nothing to do with electrification.

 

[edwin_m]

With a new road in prospect to link Morecambe to the M6, perhaps traffic in the centre of Lancaster could be rearranged to free one of the road bridges for light rail? This would probably use the old Green Ayre route rather than the surviving railway via Bare Lane. However making a link to Castle station would be difficult as the former connection leads to a platform loop that is still in use.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

As far as electrification is concerned, the Windermere branch and the Blackpool North line have advantages that the Morecombe branch doesn't, through services to the (soon to be) electrified network. For the same reason, I can't see the Blackpool South line being electrified anytime soon.

Also, aren't the lines beyond Bare Lane Token Block?

 

[Tomnick]

Also, aren't the lines beyond Bare Lane Token Block?

No, both OTW (without staff) currently. The 'Heysham' single line was worked with a staff until Bare Lane SB was abolished recently, but no sign of token block!

 

[driver9000]

Also, aren't the lines beyond Bare Lane Token Block?

One Train working Bare Lane-Morecambe. Bare Lane-Heysham was Staff worked when Bare Lane box was open but I'm not sure now.

 

[Dunc108]

The Heysham part of the branch has some potential, but limited because it generally does not go where people live. As I recall Network Rail did consider providing more services to Heysham in their NW Route Utilisation Strategy, but rejected the idea partly for that reason.

As far as the Lancaster-Morecambe branch is concerned, it has a lot of potential, especially because the main Lancaster-Morecambe road is so slow and congested. It's hard to be certain, but I get the impression a high proportion of the traffic on it is local traffic between Lancaster and Morecambe. This despite the problem that the service is irregular. That makes me think that the most useful - albeit very expensive and therefore not going to happen - long term solution would be to convert it to light rail, and add a few more stations along the route (Euston Road, Broadway and Ryelands). The main problem with that idea though is it would cause issues with sharing the main line north of Lancaster which may require separate tracks. I'd imagine the bridge over the River Lune would add a lot to the expense

More realistically, given that the line is going to remain as heavy rail, I can't see it being a priority for electrification since the relatively self-contained nature of the service limits the gains compared to somewhere like Windermere, where a lot of the traffic is long distance, and electrification gives the potential to provide more long-distance trains without lots of of diesel running under the wires. It could really do with a more regular - say, half-hourly, timetable, though - but that has nothing to do with electrification.

There are large residential areas at Westgate (Morecambe) & Mossgate Park (Heysham) which are in close proximity of the Heysham branch but youd have to build brand new stations; plus factor in that Heysham Port station is poorly sited for the Village, youd have to build a new terminus at Trumacar Bridge at the bottom of Heysham to make it worthwhile... Stagecoach Bus competition is also fierce, operating a double decker service from Higher Heysham to Lancaster University on a 10 min frequency also wont help more trains to Heysham, although these can get stuck in Lancasters appauling traffic congestion. The Morecambe Branch also has track quality issues in places although a short section has been replaced with the recent works around Morecambe South Junction aswell as resignalling with the changes at Bare Lane Signal Box.

 

[Crossover]

One Train working Bare Lane-Morecambe. Bare Lane-Heysham was Staff worked when Bare Lane box was open but I'm not sure now.

I asked a similar question and I believe OTW is in operation for the entire of the line that runs from Bare Lane to Heysham Port via Morecambe.

IIRC, there may be a staff of sorts to unlock the points, but I can't be certain. Certainly, whilst a train is in the Heysham branch, nothing can run to Morecambe on that line, though.

The points in the run around loop are spring loaded

 

[Tomnick]

I understand that a key is provided at Morecambe, released by Preston PSB to allow the ground frames there and at Heysham to be operated. It is just a key though, not a staff.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

With a new road in prospect to link Morecambe to the M6, perhaps traffic in the centre of Lancaster could be rearranged to free one of the road bridges for light rail? This would probably use the old Green Ayre route rather than the surviving railway via Bare Lane. However making a link to Castle station would be difficult as the former connection leads to a platform loop that is still in use.

The last I heard was that if the new road was built, one lane of the 3-lane Greyhound Bridge (the larger, Southernmost, bridge, which is one-way towards Morecambe) would be converted to buses only. The proposed link road largely by-passes Lancaster so would have some, but not a massive impact on traffic levels on the bridges. Because of that I'd guess the one lane is all that could be freed up.

The old route to Morecambe, which would link nicely to that bridge, doesn't go through as many population centres and is now a very successful cycle path, so I'm inclined to think the existing Morecambe line is more suitable for light rail. Having said that, using one of the bridges for light rail would have the potential advantage of getting closer to Lancaster City Centre than the existing station. But I'm not sure how you could practically do it.

 

[Ploughman]

Wasn't the branch to Morecambe from Lancaster previously electrified?
Bit ironic especially if some of the old OHLE structures still exist.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wasn't the branch to Morecambe from Lancaster previously electrified?
Bit ironic especially if some of the old OHLE structures still exist.

Yes but not via the current route.
The wires ran from the present station on the single line down to Green Ayre station and then along the Midland route to Morecambe/Heysham (closed 1966).
The LNWR route to Morecambe via Bare Lane was never electrified.
I think one or two masts still lie in the undergrowth at the Lancaster end.

 

[Dunc108]

The branch is probably the busiest its ever been, and whilst the 1994- built station isnt to everyones taste, its better situated for the town centre, and theres also Morecambe Bus station opposite. Theres a small ticket office & waiting room but i think a PIS screen would be useful for when its not open, especially when services get delayed especially to Leeds and theres no guarantee everyone who has a mobile can access live departures.

 

[Bevan Price]

All the recent talk of electrification projects got me thinking a bit about the Morecambe branch & how it could be included in future schemes, although its infrastructure is a bit more complicated than, say, Windermere or Blackpool South. Trackwork/capacity at Morecambe is quite generous for an early 1990's rebuild but its potential flexibility is often hampered by the double track beyond Bare Lane operating as 2 independent routes. The Heysham Branch has potential but operators have so far shown minimal enthusiasm for expanding beyond its current level.

It is ironic that Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham used to be electrified, but via the now closed line via Lancaster Green Ayre, where trains had to reverse. The line closed in the Marples-Beeching era, along with the direct line between Lancaster Green Ayre & Wennington, which permitted faster services between Leeds, Lancaster & Morecambe than is possible using the current indirect route via Carnforth.

 

[yorksrob]

It is ironic that Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham used to be electrified, but via the now closed line via Lancaster Green Ayre, where trains had to reverse. The line closed in the Marples-Beeching era, along with the direct line between Lancaster Green Ayre & Wennington, which permitted faster services between Leeds, Lancaster & Morecambe than is possible using the current indirect route via Carnforth.

To be fair though, Carnforth is a useful interchange with the Barrow line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is ironic that Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham used to be electrified, but via the now closed line via Lancaster Green Ayre, where trains had to reverse. The line closed in the Marples-Beeching era, along with the direct line between Lancaster Green Ayre & Wennington, which permitted faster services between Leeds, Lancaster & Morecambe than is possible using the current indirect route via Carnforth.

Scale Hall railway station, between Lancaster and Morecambe, was only opened in the late 1950's on that branch and only had a short life before closure, but if you were to stand in the area of that former station, you would see traffic of an entirely different nature these days.

 

[Buttsy]

It is ironic that Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham used to be electrified, but via the now closed line via Lancaster Green Ayre, where trains had to reverse. The line closed in the Marples-Beeching era, along with the direct line between Lancaster Green Ayre & Wennington, which permitted faster services between Leeds, Lancaster & Morecambe than is possible using the current indirect route via Carnforth.

I think had the Carnforth routing not been kept (mainly due to freight to Barrow area) during the Beeching cuts, you'd have nothing west of Settle Junction as the Green Ayre route wouldn't have survived anyway. The aim was to reduce the stations in Lancaster and free up a Lune crossing for road traffic.

 

[Welshman]

To be fair though, Carnforth is a useful interchange with the Barrow line.

IIRC, back in the days of yore, some, if not most, of the Leeds/Bradford-Morecambe trains had portions for Carnforth which were detached/attached at Wennington.

So you had the best of both worlds - a quicker and more direct service to Morecambe via Lancaster Green Ayre, and a service to Carnforth for connections there.

 

[Dunc108]

It is ironic that Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham used to be electrified, but via the now closed line via Lancaster Green Ayre, where trains had to reverse. The line closed in the Marples-Beeching era, along with the direct line between Lancaster Green Ayre & Wennington, which permitted faster services between Leeds, Lancaster & Morecambe than is possible using the current indirect route via Carnforth.

Yes it was wired as part of the Midland Railway's Pioneer Electrification in 1907? The vintage stock was replaced in the early 1950's by stock converted from the Willesden - Earls Court route. There were short periods during the transition where conventional push-pull steam trains were used before the new EMUs too over. I think they basically operated a half-hourly service between Morecambe - Green Ayre & Lancaster Castle. They only ran hourly to Heysham Harbour. BR also used the route to test differing types of OHLE before being applied on the main line.

 

[Bevan Price]

To be fair though, Carnforth is a useful interchange with the Barrow line.

It might be - if there were reasonable connections. The last train of the day from Leeds has a 5 minute connection to the Barrow line. The others have connections ranging between 20 and 63 minutes.

Carnforth would be a more useful interchange if it still had its platforms on the WCML.

 

[reb0118]

Carnforth would be a more useful interchange if it still had its platforms on the WCML.

Will these ever come back into use?

 

[Eagle]

Carnforth would be a more useful interchange if it still had its platforms on the WCML.

Although I don't think it'd be sensible (or easy) to put platforms back on the mainline, I wonder if it'd be possible to put in a new west to north chord here where the Leeds line crosses the mainline, allowing electric TPE services to call at Carnforth, go round the loop and back onto the mainline. It would only have to be single track.

As you can see there's a convenient disused trackbed there (although it originally connected to the Barrow line rather than the Leeds line).

 

[Grumpy]

If you are referring to connections from West Yorks then the best station to connect is Preston which offers more varied and generally better connections than Carnforth ever could.
The Leeds-Blackpool service is hourly interval and serves Bradford, Halifax and other significant centres in Lancashire. By comparison the Leeds-Lancaster/Morecambe service is poor and serves a much smaller market.
Some time back I was queuing at Bradford interchange for a ticket and noticed the person in front was booking for Lancaster and would be changing at Preston. It shocked me, thinking the "natural" way was via Giggleswick. But really it's a no-brainer-one route offers greater frequency and travel in decent aircon trains whilst the other offers a rubbish service and the chance of travelling on a Pacer or 150.
It would be better to shut Settle Jn-Carnforth and use the money saved to give Morecambe some form of through services to Preston and Manchester. This might tie up with electrifying the branch

 

[yorksrob]

It would be better to shut Settle Jn-Carnforth and use the money saved to give Morecambe some form of through services to Preston and Manchester. This might tie up with electrifying the branch

Er, no thanks.

The last train back from Lancaster could do with being a little later, for sure, however, I still find the route useful for a day trip.

Visiting a rugby match up in Whitehaven, I did indeed need to use the Preston route on the way, however the link back via Carnforth and Settle was just handy (and even gave me time to get a sandwich in Carnforth).

 

[badger1badger]

Hi everyone

Is this box still open ? I seem to remember hearing something that it was closing. Then I think it was on tv with the guy not wearing shoes ???

Paul

 

[Tomnick]

Blea Moor? Yes, it's still open...but has very little to do with the railways of Lancaster and Morecambe these days.

The chap with no shoes was at Stockport No. 2 box.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Although I don't think it'd be sensible (or easy) to put platforms back on the mainline, I wonder if it'd be possible to put in a new west to north chord here where the Leeds line crosses the mainline, allowing electric TPE services to call at Carnforth, go round the loop and back onto the mainline. It would only have to be single track.

As you can see there's a convenient disused trackbed there (although it originally connected to the Barrow line rather than the Leeds line).

Interesting idea, but it would mean southbound services calling at Carnforth would have to cross the northbound mainline track twice - which I imagine would cause horrendous pathing issues.

Why do you think there would be a problem with reinstating the mainline platforms? Possible pathing conflicts with non-stopping services? If so, would a better idea to minimize pathing issues be to reinstate the chord but for northbound services only, and reinstate just the southbound mainline platform at Carnforth?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Heysham Branch has potential but operators have so far shown minimal enthusiasm for expanding beyond its current level.

In this context, this might be of interest. It's what Network Rail's Lancashire and Cumbria Route Utilisation Strategyin 2008 said about the Heysham branch:

A variety of options were looked at in Option
BL1 in terms of how to create a practical hourly
service in the peaks between Heysham and
Lancaster. The business cases were weak
because the only station is in the wrong place
for easy access by commuters, the line is slow
and the method of operation is time consuming.
Realistically such a service would need
a higher linespeed, and a simplified method of
working at Morecambe, in order to justify the
assumption that the service could be operated
in the marginal time of existing units and crews,
and in order to attract passengers from their
cars there would need to be new stations in
appropriate places. These factors mean the
scheme not viable.

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit, it‘s been a good fifteen years since I ‘ve travelled on the Lancaster - Morecambe section. Is the current service well used between them?