Most important rail project...

What is the most important rail project under consideration today?

  • Birmingham New Street Gateway Project

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • High Speed 2

    Votes: 18 16.8%
  • Mass-scale electrification

    Votes: 74 69.2%
  • Renaming of Shippea Hill station "Prickwillow Parkway" :P

    Votes: 7 6.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 6.5%

  • Total voters
    107
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SprinterMan

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Simple question:
In your opinion, what project currently under consideration is most important to the railway network today?
Please comment on the reasons for your choice.
Happy voting :)
 
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tbtc

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Mass scale electrification - without a doubt. The others are "nice to have" (or very nice to have, in the case of Shippea Hill...), but extending electrification (to replace Pacers/ reduce dependancy on diesel/ upgrade provincial lines etc) is essential
 

Michael.Y

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For once I agree - a Merseyrail-style metro system for the Valley Lines would be superb and really revolutionise rail transport in South Wales. I'll be sad to see the 150s go, but when compared to what we could have, they need to be shipped off.
 

LE Greys

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Mass scale electrification - without a doubt. The others are "nice to have" (or very nice to have, in the case of Shippea Hill...), but extending electrification (to replace Pacers/ reduce dependancy on diesel/ upgrade provincial lines etc) is essential
Agreed on all counts. Shifting towards an all-electric passenger railway (probably impossible, but let's try to get to about 75% electric) would be the best thing that could happen to the network for a long time.
 

SprinterMan

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Mass scale electrification - without a doubt. The others are "nice to have" (or very nice to have, in the case of Shippea Hill...), but extending electrification (to replace Pacers/ reduce dependancy on diesel/ upgrade provincial lines etc) is essential
I completely agree with this :)
I'm sure I read somewhere that the UK has the lowest % of electrified tracks in Europe aside from Rep. of Ireland and Albania or something like that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why is Birmingham Gateway under consideration ? it is being built as we speak !
I was unsure what else to put, in retrospect I should have put pacer replacement, but that sort of comes under mass-scale electrification. :)
Besides, BHM is the hub of the XC network and very important in the grand scheme of things. :P
 

Yew

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I think HS2, as it could yield a revolution in rail transport similar to what happened with the introduction of the HST and InterCity brand. Hence bringing more money into the system for the other projects. (electrification +pacer replacement. and the capacity enhancements that will be a byproduct of these.)
 

yorksrob

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I agree that the large scale electrification programme and subsequent cascades will be the best way to secure large parts of the network for the future.

I wish we had the option of voting for a re-opening programme, but since none of our politicians have the balls to start one <D
 
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Train movments near my house are noisy due to the rails seemingly having a wider "gap" than usual where connected. If they could be repaired this would improve things immensely.

Well you did ask which is the most important project in MY opinion. :lol:
 

Captain Chaos

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Electrification for sure. The others are nice and good to have projects but electrification needs to happen. Not just to replace pacers on some routes or what have you. But because Oil will only become more and more expensive and eventually run out so we can't keep using Diesel forever. Best change now before it becomes a problem.
 

ginger

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The Greater Anglia mass "deep clean" of trains.......the mass disease outbreak waiting to happen may be on the scale of Asian Bird Flu if they dont hurry up! Thanks Mr Chivers and NX!!!
 

SprinterMan

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I agree that the large scale electrification programme and subsequent cascades will be the best way to secure large parts of the network for the future.

I wish we had the option of voting for a re-opening programme, but since none of our politicians have the balls to start one <D
If I have missed any, please vote "Other" and say what you think below :)
 

SS4

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Prickwillow Parkway sure does sound interesting but for station renames Witton to Villa Park would be top of my list
 

SS4

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To those voting for electrification: where will the juice come from? Nuclear plant building has been suspended and there is predicted to be an energy gap.
 

Michael.Y

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To those voting for electrification: where will the juice come from? Nuclear plant building has been suspended and there is predicted to be an energy gap.
Armies of hamsters in wheels connected to generators.
 

ainsworth74

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I have voted for mass scale electrification because they are going to have to get a move on we are falling behind other countries and Scotland is a joke when it comes to electrification.
I agree as a whole the UK is behind other countries but I'm not sure Scotland is by itself. You have the two major southbound mainlines to England electrified, three routes between the two biggest cities (soon to be four), an electrified suburban network around Glasgow. On the cards is wiring to Stirling/Alloa and Aberdeen at which point there isn't a) much to be wired left and b) what is left is unlikely to be wired at any point (apart from maybe the Highland Mainline and the Glasgow South Western Line).

Anyway as others above have said mass electrification has to be the most important. HS2 is also important but it's impacts aren't going to be felt for many years yet, wiring up routes will deliver results in a much smaller time scale and is vital if we're going to replace the rolling stock that is both unsuitable/life expired.
 

DaveNewcastle

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To those voting for electrification: where will the juice come from? Nuclear plant building has been suspended and there is predicted to be an energy gap.
Oh, that's easy to answer!

It will start as coal mined in Poland, using a lot of diesel and electric plant, conveyed to port using a lot of diesel fuel, loaded into ships by diesel hoists, then carried by sea buring a lot of particularly crude/ dirty diesel, unloaded in the UK by electric hoists, carried across the UK by diesel locomotives, and dragged up into the boiler houses by electric motor. Meanwhile, the ships will return empty/ ballasted burning more of that dirty diesel.

But none of this ever stops people thinking that somehow 'electric is better'. The losses in electric power distribution alone are staggering.
Not that I have any objection to railway electrification; I just don't see that it brings much of the benefits that are popularly claimed. It will provide electricity suppliers with a high-useage committed customer, will provide electricity generators with choice over their raw fuel which their customers don't enjoy, and will tie rail operators into a single supply, both in terms of price and availability.
It will have doubtful impact on pollutants and efficiency when viewed globally.
 

Eagle

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I was unsure what else to put, in retrospect I should have put pacer replacement, but that sort of comes under mass-scale electrification. :)
Besides, BHM is the hub of the XC network and very important in the grand scheme of things. :P
Yes, but unlike the other schemes you mention, the Gateway project is half-finished... it stopped being "under consideration" some time around 2009 and the money's already being spent.
 

SprinterMan

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The Greater Anglia mass "deep clean" of trains.......the mass disease outbreak waiting to happen may be on the scale of Asian Bird Flu if they dont hurry up! Thanks Mr Chivers and NX!!!
Is this extending to the blue seated 321/4s, as something needs to kill the fleas. People are moaning about them not being refurbished, but once they are clean they will be nicer than the 321/3s.
 

SprinterMan

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Yes, but unlike the other schemes you mention, the Gateway project is half-finished... it stopped being "under consideration" some time around 2009 and the money's already being spent.
I didn't know that, sorry. :)
Still, it could be argued the electrification has started as well (TPX, GWML, etc.)

Still it has one vote (although 2 less than Shippea Hill ;))
 

LE Greys

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Oh, that's easy to answer!

It will start as coal mined in Poland, using a lot of diesel and electric plant, conveyed to port using a lot of diesel fuel, loaded into ships by diesel hoists, then carried by sea buring a lot of particularly crude/ dirty diesel, unloaded in the UK by electric hoists, carried across the UK by diesel locomotives, and dragged up into the boiler houses by electric motor. Meanwhile, the ships will return empty/ ballasted burning more of that dirty diesel.

But none of this ever stops people thinking that somehow 'electric is better'. The losses in electric power distribution alone are staggering.
Not that I have any objection to railway electrification; I just don't see that it brings much of the benefits that are popularly claimed. It will provide electricity suppliers with a high-useage committed customer, will provide electricity generators with choice over their raw fuel which their customers don't enjoy, and will tie rail operators into a single supply, both in terms of price and availability.
It will have doubtful impact on pollutants and efficiency when viewed globally.
Why didn't someone explain that to Margaret Thatcher? :roll: (Or is that me falling foul of Godwin's Second Law).

Of course, to get the fuel for any mining (or diesel engines) you require a diesel-powered drilling rig, a diesel-powered pump at the later stages, diesel-powered pumps for pipelines, diesel-powered tanker ships, diesel-powered road tankers, diesel-powered trains and a massive refinary with all sorts of associated environmental damage. You might be able to substitute electricity at some stages, but without a grid connection, what generates it?

Still, even though there are still plenty of production losses, you get far more energy per unit of mass out of nuclear power. Procession of massive coal trains into Didcot, one every two hours, or couple of times a week (at a guess) to Sizewell?
 

ginger

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Is this extending to the blue seated 321/4s, as something needs to kill the fleas. People are moaning about them not being refurbished, but once they are clean they will be nicer than the 321/3s.
no they wont! the seats are falling to bits! take the dirt away and thats the end of them.....321/4s internal refresh underway....1st unit being done....new panels, seat covers lights etc etc.....at least to bring them up to late 20th century standards............
 

SprinterMan

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no they wont! the seats are falling to bits! take the dirt away and thats the end of them.....321/4s internal refresh underway....1st unit being done....new panels, seat covers lights etc etc.....at least to bring them up to late 20th century standards............
Which unit is being done? I thought GA cancelled the refresh?
 
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