MSE thread: "Why the HELL is it wrong to pay ON the Train???"

[Urban Gateline]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4365105

So, my cars gone and im using the train to see folks over the New Year.
It is a long distance trip and its coming out at £66 for an open return.
Now my thing is this..
Last time i paid that price for this journey i was not stopped ONCE, not once!!!!
Now, i have to change twice, why should i not carry money in my pocket and pay when im approached? Even if i fib about where i got on?
IT'S THEIR JOB TO CHECK PEOPLE FOR TICKETS!!
Im not responsible for them not checking the carriages whilst they joke and eat scones!
I feel cheated and robbed when im not checked on a train after paying £60 in fares, so much so, that when im checked i feel relieved and quite content.
Why is ths even an issue??

CHECK ME AND I'LL BUY ONE OFF OF YOU BECAUSE YOURE DOING YOUR JOB

DONT CHECK ME AND (FROM NOW ON) I WILL POTENTIALLY GET A FREE RIDE.

PS - Dont whine to me about fines - - - - not interested.

This thread on MSE is hilarious, the OP could be a troll but if they are genuine it shows exactly what's wrong with some passengers' attitudes in relation to paying for their journey!

I hope everyone else finds it as amusing a read as I did

 

[causton]

This is why I stay off the MSE forums

 

[Ferret]

This thread on MSE is hilarious, the OP could be a troll but if they are genuine it shows exactly what's wrong with some passengers' attitudes in relation to paying for their journey!

I hope everyone else finds it as amusing a read as I did

I did! He won't be so full of it if they catch him fibbing about where he got on!!!

 

[wintonian]

I must give this a read when I get home.



Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Goatboy]

Reminds me of the guy I encountered on an FGW Portsmouth to Cardiff service last week.

He was loudly talking into his mobile about how unacceptable it was that the train was 15 minutes late. He also pointed out that there was 'obviously some sort of free travel day today' as 'the barriers were open' so he didnt buy a ticket.

 

[Flamingo]

I often tell people, my job on the train is not to sell them tickets, my job is to check if they have a valid one, and take appropriate action if they don't.

Which is why I am charging them a full Anytime ticket, not the (railcard discounted) SSR they seem to think they are entitled to, even though they got on at a major station.

 

[Westboy]

I often tell people, my job on the train is not to sell them tickets, my job is to check if they have a valid one, and take appropriate action if they don't.

Which is why I am charging them a full Anytime ticket, not the (railcard discounted) SSR they seem to think they are entitled to, even though they got on at a major station.

At least you check.

I can understand frustration aluded too in the OP when you see the TM and Customer Assistant discussing Big Brother for 40 minutes in the front vestibule between Taunton and Bristol though, as I frequently used to do. Often talking over the shoulders of the passengers.

Distinctly unprofessional looking if nothing else.

 

[Firix]

Hasn't it been changed so we just give them the ticket they were supposed to have, rather than a full anytime fare?

I'm sure I read this recently.

 

[wintonian]

Hasn't it been changed so we just give them the ticket they were supposed to have, rather than a full anytime fare?

I'm sure I read this recently.

Only if they are using an advance and are on the wrong train, but right TOC.

 

[SS4]

Hasn't it been changed so we just give them the ticket they were supposed to have, rather than a full anytime fare?

I'm sure I read this recently.

Sorry to be a pedant but it's the cheapest valid ticket rather than the ticket they were supposed to have

 

[Firix]

Ahhh yes that's what it was

Xmas and new year addling the brain

 

[Flamingo]

At least you check

I only do it to annoy my managers .

Believe me, the people who don't check NEVER have complaints about them, or have to do incident forms because of assaults or abuse. Therefore they cause less paperwork.

The only thing that really annoys management and what they wish to avoid at all costs is delay minutes, closely followed by the aforementioned complaints and incident forms. Checking tickets and acting on irregularities found causes all of these. Not checking them doesn't.

So, do you really think my manager wants me to check tickets?

 

[wintonian]

I only do it to annoy my managers .

Believe me, the people who don't check NEVER have complaints about them, or have to do incident forms because of assaults or abuse. Therefore they cause less paperwork.

The only thing that really annoys management and what they wish to avoid at all costs is delay minutes, closely followed by the aforementioned complaints and incident forms. Checking tickets and acting on irregularities found causes all of these. Not checking them doesn't.

So, do you really think my manager wants me to check tickets?

What if the amount of revenue gained/ lost by checking/ not checking, selling excesses/ not selling excesses, directly correlated with the number of managers TOC's are able to employ or need to make redundant?

Hmm.

 

[Flamingo]

This has been discussed many times before on here, but basically potential revenue is an concept that may or may not be there, but delay costs are real and under the nose of the bean-counters. So, any arguments saying that X amount might be saved in the future are not going to cut any ice when trying to justify the £10000 cost of the delay minutes spent dragging the fare dodger off the train at Reading.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I only do it to annoy my managers .

Believe me, the people who don't check NEVER have complaints about them, or have to do incident forms because of assaults or abuse. Therefore they cause less paperwork.

The only thing that really annoys management and what they wish to avoid at all costs is delay minutes, closely followed by the aforementioned complaints and incident forms. Checking tickets and acting on irregularities found causes all of these. Not checking them doesn't.

So, do you really think my manager wants me to check tickets?

Very sad indeed that it's come to that, you'd have thought that Management would prefer as much revenue to be collected as possible by their Guards, of course on top of safe operation of the train!

I have a great deal of respect for you Flamingo and wish all Guards were as proactive as you. I have a similar strict attitude to ticket checking when I'm working at the Gateline, although I'm probably naieve in thinking that the extra revenue I collect for TOC's actually makes a difference!

Some TOC's (like FGW) are missing a trick at smaller but busy stations where there are No TVM's and limited/no ticket office opening, if TVM's were to be installed at these stations it would give more opportunity for passengers to buy before boarding rather than chance whether the Guard comes through (controversially it may also allow those stations to be added to Penalty fare schemes)

 

[wintonian]

This has been discussed many times before on here, but basically potential revenue is an concept that may or may not be there, but delay costs are real and under the nose of the bean-counters. So, any arguments saying that X amount might be saved in the future are not going to cut any ice when trying to justify the £10000 cost of the delay minutes spent dragging the fare dodger off the train at Reading.

True, but it all seems a bit wrong to me.

 

[Flamingo]

True, but it all seems a bit wrong to me.

And to me
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Very sad indeed that it's come to that, you'd have thought that Management would prefer as much revenue to be collected as possible by their Guards, of course on top of safe operation of the train!

I have a great deal of respect for you Flamingo and wish all Guards were as proactive as you. I have a similar strict attitude to ticket checking when I'm working at the Gateline, although I'm probably naieve in thinking that the extra revenue I collect for TOC's actually makes a difference!

Some TOC's (like FGW) are missing a trick at smaller but busy stations where there are No TVM's and limited/no ticket office opening, if TVM's were to be installed at these stations it would give more opportunity for passengers to buy before boarding rather than chance whether the Guard comes through (controversially it may also allow those stations to be added to Penalty fare schemes)

Collecting revenue costs money - as said, it's a potential figure can't be shown in black & white against a cost that can. So, TOC's, as a rule, won't spend it.

 

[Urban Gateline]

This has been discussed many times before on here, but basically potential revenue is an concept that may or may not be there, but delay costs are real and under the nose of the bean-counters. So, any arguments saying that X amount might be saved in the future are not going to cut any ice when trying to justify the £10000 cost of the delay minutes spent dragging the fare dodger off the train at Reading.

Although that's true, delay is not always necessary. If you have the right contacts I'm sure removal of said scum can be arranged It's what we did at Clapham Junction, our SCP got a call from a Guard about an aggressive fare evader, cue a team of Security staff and an RPI awaiting the train on arrival, removing said fare evader and proceeding to complete an MG11! There was no delay to the service as the person was removed along with other passengers alighting.

 

[wintonian]

Collecting revenue costs money - as said, it's a potential figure can't be shown in black & white against a cost that can. So, TOC's, as a rule, won't spend it.

Perversely it's the honest amongst us that then pay for that revenue to be collected.

Suppose life's just not fare

 

[Flamingo]

Although that's true, delay is not always necessary. If you have the right contacts I'm sure removal of said scum can be arranged It's what we did at Clapham Junction, our SCP got a call from a Guard about an aggressive fare evader, cue a team of Security staff and an RPI awaiting the train on arrival, removing said fare evader and proceeding to complete an MG11! There was no delay to the service as the person was removed along with other passengers alighting.

Nice! Most stops I call at have neither, unfortunately.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Perversely it's the honest amongst us that then pay for that revenue to be collected.

Suppose life's just not fare

Ahh but it's better than not having anyone collect revenue though isn't it? From what I've seen, RPI's and other Ticket checker's pay for themselves in the Revenue that they collect for TOC's (be that through ticket sales, Penalty fares or prosecutions)

 

[Firix]

Also, a lot of TVMs have been removed from across the network due to vandalism/theft etc.

 

[34D]

Although that's true, delay is not always necessary. If you have the right contacts I'm sure removal of said scum can be arranged It's what we did at Clapham Junction, our SCP got a call from a Guard about an aggressive fare evader, cue a team of Security staff and an RPI awaiting the train on arrival, removing said fare evader and proceeding to complete an MG11! There was no delay to the service as the person was removed along with other passengers alighting.

This is how it should be, especially with aggressive/violent passengers

 

[Aictos]

Sorry to be a pedant but it's the cheapest valid ticket rather than the ticket they were supposed to have

East Coast advise pax that pax with invalid tickets will be charged a brand new ticket at the full anytime price - they do tell pax how much this would this would be though.

 

[VauxhallandI]

What annoys me regarding this is that TOC's use the issue of fare evasion as a reason why fares go up.

When we all know that if everyone paid their fare the prices would still go up. Put this on top of their active non encouragement for you guys to collect revenue really does treat the the passenger as a bit of an idiot.

 

[talltim]

Ignoring th fare evasion issue, it is stupid that you have to pay on the train in some places and can't at all in others. No potential for confusion there at all!

 

[Urban Gateline]

Ignoring th fare evasion issue, it is stupid that you have to pay on the train in some places and can't at all in others. No potential for confusion there at all!

What confusion? It's quite simple that if there are ticket issuing facilities at the station then you use them before boarding or otherwise buy from the Guard on the train if there are no facilities!

 

[sheff1]

What confusion? It's quite simple that if there are ticket issuing facilities at the station then you use them before boarding or otherwise buy from the Guard on the train if there are no facilities!

Well you, for one, are seemingly confused.

I sometimes travel from Kings Cross where there are plentiful ticketing issuing faclities. The company who operates the trains does not expect me to buy a ticket before I join the train and I find it far more civilsed to take a seat on board early, and buy en route, than join a queue.

Conversely, I boarded at a station in Paisley yesterday which has no ticketing facilities. You could not buy a ticket from the guard on the train as there wasn't one.

 

[GNER 91128]

As I posted in another thread (can't remember which one) it's not always possible to give enough time to purchase a ticket before travel esp if a bus times don't allow and there's a long wait for the next train.

I always have my railcard and money on the table ready to show that I'm ready to pay and not trying to evade the fare, but of course the guard won't take that in to account which is fair enough, but it is something I'd like to see change.

 

[Flamingo]

As I've said before, if someone is trying to find me, they are genuine. If someone is waiting for me to find them, then I am suspicious. If I have to wake them (or attract their attention from their headphones and the view, or "important" phone call), they are trying to fare dodge.

It's a rule that rarely fails.