My bad experience travelling on FGW from Clifton (26/09): Total and utter debacle.

[Cinc026]

http://epigram.org.uk/news/2015/09/chaos-on-train-to-tokyo-world

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...gers-stop-bristol-train-and-walk-along-tracks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-34389884

My letter to the MP of Clifton et al.

Dear Thangam Debbonaire,

I am writing with regards to the incident that occurred on Saturday 26th of September between 15:00-16:00 involving train services between the Clifton and Redland rail stations. Having read various news pieces hosted by the BBC, The Guardian and the Bristol student newspaper Epigram, and following my failure to personally reach First Great Western I have had little other choice than to write. I am currently both a student of the University of Bristol and a witness of the overcrowded train. The train became extremely overcrowded through an error in judgement of both the train's conductor as well as the students involved themselves. It seems that the conductor should have done more to prevent so many people from boarding, the students should have been wiser than to struggle onto a small train.

There was no "choice" in pulling the emergency cord - the train driver had expressed his refusal to move until the vehicle emptied. The conditions were intolerable on board; many students reported panic attacks induced by claustrophobia as well as fainting from dehydration. Can the students really be blamed for leaving the train in such conditions? The situation called for the partial evacuation of the train at behest of the driver himself, and the emergency cord's raison d'etre fully justified. Mistakes in judgement were unequivocally made on the day by both railway staff and the victims/criminals/students depending on which side you stand in the debacle, but there are some major points of outrage that I wish to communicate. What I simply cannot comprehend is how First Great Western are pursuing the issue as a "trespassing incident", especially considering that the train driver explicitly refused to move until the train had emptied. Whilst it may have been naive for such a great number of students to board one train, it is a considerable issue that this happened to be the case in the first place.

1) On a day when there is a highly publicised festival in Bristol occurring (Tokyo World - Eastville Park), the necessary foresight must be exercised in order to ensure that the festival-goers reach their destination safely. If this requires supplying however many more trains per hour as appropriate at the peak times, then surely enacting this improvement is the sensible decision to make. The necessity of such an improvement seems clear when it is established that this train service is the quickest and most convenient route to the site.

2) How First Great Western and the Transport Police can hold 200 students criminally and solely responsible for what has happened. Both staff and students were at fault for the situation that arose, yet for the company to place the blame entirely on the shoulshoulders of my peers I find arrogant, myopic and authoritarian. On a more human level, I find it utterly repugnant that 200 panic-stricken students are being held criminally responsible for the equal negligence of the train company. I hope that work can be done at realising the mutual mistakes made, share the responsibility and ensure that the errors are never made again on both accounts.

I apologise for the acerbic tone of this letter, but I feel it necessary to communicate the feelings of both myself and my fellow students who inadvertently found themselves in such an unpleasant situation. I hope that both the Transport Police and First Great Western can realise that errors were made at their end, not just at ours, and that their pursuit of this as a 'trespassing incident' can be acknowledged as invalid given the fact that the victims had no choice but to leave the train at the time.

Yours sincerely,

Nuhuh Not So Fast.



This one just screams of straight up negligence, verging on entrapment.

 

[najaB]

There was no "choice" in pulling the emergency cord - the train driver had expressed his refusal to move until the vehicle emptied.

I stopped reading. A driver 'refused' to move until passengers detrained onto the tracks. Right. :roll:

 

[Cinc026]

Believe it or not. Regardless, 400 people on a two carriage train, people dehydrating and panicking. Emergency cord was pulled, people who were suffering came off and 200 are being pursued for trespassing. It is just a total disaster - the point is how that this was able to happen in the first place

His exact words - "I am not moving until people get off." Perhaps for once the railway is partially to blame, but that might be too much for you to bear.

 

[Jonfun]

Ignoring the criminal aspect of it, which in my opinion, all of those involved should be prosecuted for, I find it really sad, because on that train there might have been young kids, and when they see adults thinking it's okay to misuse emergency equipment and put themselves in serious danger by leaving a train they'll grow up thinking that it's okay. That could one day get them killed.

 

[Cinc026]

If you were there at the time Jon, you wouldn't have considered it misuse. I agree that the whole situation is a shambles although I cannot help but think that it could have been so easily avoided had the necessary forethought gone into the organisation of the day

 

[Darandio]

His exact words - "I am not moving until people get off." Perhaps for once the railway is partially to blame, but that might be too much for you to bear.

You heard that? Yet I see no record elsewhere apart from people claiming not to have heard anything the driver said.

And he said this whilst stopped between stations?

 

[Cinc026]

I heard that yes, spoken whilst stopped between stations. As I said, this whole situation is anomalous hence why it has made national news! Witnessing it first hand means that I feel particularly fervent about the issue, considering how poorly it was dealt with by staff and students alike

You see no record from media outlets cherry-picking their quotes. Speaking amongst students in the aftermath of the event, many others have confirmed that was what they also heard.

 

[najaB]

Speaking amongst students in the aftermath of the event, many others have confirmed that was what they also heard.

That may be what you heard but I doubt that is what was said. The reason I doubt it is because drivers, generally speaking, like to stay employed.

 

[Cinc026]

And most ambitious students, generally speaking, like to keep their records clean and avoid needless suffering

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . 400 people on a two carriage train, people dehydrating and panicking . . . .

each one of whom voluntarily and willingly put themselves in that unnecessary position of high density accommodation.
Anyone unhappy with it could have waited for the next train (or perhaps as I did today at Liverpool St. could have exited the station and walked quickly for 30mins) [other modes of travel are available].

Sill, I appreciate that it's a popular view that we find fault with others when we don't like the consequences of our choices.

 

[Cinc026]

I agree that it was a daft thing to do - many people did wait, others put up with the conditions. What people didn't expect was the train to come to a halt on the tracks and stay there for at least 25 minutes! Had the train carried on to its destination, people wouldn't have taken issue. It was meant to be a 12 minute train journey, but that time at least doubled. It's not so much finding fault with others than sharing or acknowledging a degree of responsibility for a situation that could have been easily avoided had the necessary planning been done.

 

[Carntyne]

I agree that it was a daft thing to do - many people did wait, others put up with the conditions. What people didn't expect was the train to come to a halt on the tracks and stay there for at least 25 minutes! Had the train carried on to its destination, people wouldn't have taken issue. It was meant to be a 12 minute train journey, but that time at least doubled. It's not so much finding fault with others than sharing or acknowledging a degree of responsibility for a situation that could have been easily avoided had the necessary planning been done.

How do they plan for 400 people forcing themselves onto a train?

 

[Polarbear]

Having read through the OP's post & the linked articles, I would ask the following questions;

1. How is one conductor & one guard supposed to stop that many people boarding the train at an unstaffed station
2. Why did so many people try to board what was obviously an overcrowded service
3. Why is it wholly the fault of the rail company
4. Why did none of those passengers use a modicom of common sense & NOT board an already crowded train

Sorry, but for me, this is a classic example of how people in this country won't take any responsibility for their own actions. No one forced any of those people to get on that train, they did so of their own free will, without any concern for anyone else. When it went wrong, there follows a determined effort to blame anyone else but those actually responsible for causing the issue in the first place!

Ok, it was crowded, but to disembark from a train between stations is highly irresponsible & I personally think that the rail company is quite right to take the action it is doing.

 

[bb21]

Two things that stand out for me in your letter.

It seems that the conductor should have done more to prevent so many people from boarding, the students should have been wiser than to struggle onto a small train.

What do you expect the guard to have done in the given circumstances? How would he have been able to stop all these people trying to board?

1) On a day when there is a highly publicised festival in Bristol occurring (Tokyo World - Eastville Park), the necessary foresight must be exercised in order to ensure that the festival-goers reach their destination safely. If this requires supplying however many more trains per hour as appropriate at the peak times, then surely enacting this improvement is the sensible decision to make. The necessity of such an improvement seems clear when it is established that this train service is the quickest and most convenient route to the site.

We do not have spare carriages lying around doing nothing these days, so it is not as easy as saying more trains should be laid on. Where are you going to suddenly magic out all these additional trains you wanted?

Extra buses were laid on for the party-goers, but somehow they were not going to places people really wanted to go.

 

[Cinc026]

If you research the context of the situation you would discover that on that day there was a day festival in Bristol. The train route from Clifton is the most convenient journey, and it would surely be hoped that the travel services would acknowledge this and provide the sufficient support to ensure that the huge volume of people were safely transported to the venue.

There were 2 trains of two carriages per hour. This is not enough to deal with the number of people using that line on that day. The bus service is poor, and there aren't enough cabs to service the tens of thousands of people attending. All I'm asking is a share in the responsibility to make sure that this doesn't happen again! From both students and the rail companies!

 

[Carntyne]

If you research the context of the situation you would discover that on that day there was a day festival in Bristol. The train route from Clifton is the most convenient journey, and it would surely be hoped that the travel services would acknowledge this and provide the sufficient support to ensure that the huge volume of people were safely transported to the venue.

There were 2 trains of two carriages per hour. This is not enough to deal with the number of people using that line on that day. The bus service is poor, and there aren't enough cabs to service the tens of thousands of people attending. All I'm asking is a share in the responsibility to make sure that this doesn't happen again! From both students and the rail companies!

So which other services would you have taken carriages from? Seeing as it's so easy to do.

 

[Cinc026]

Fair enough. It seems to me then that the whole situation was monumentally cocked up by attendants, although the transport services (IE better bus transportation to pick up an earlier point) could have been better. I simply hope that the same situation won't occur again, with the safety of all passengers in mind.

I'm sorry if my criticism came on strong - as a witness I'm simply sharing the details that I personally observed as a layman with little knowledge of precise details regarding this particular railway. Either way, it was an experience I don't want to have to endure again and wouldn't wish on anybody. Of course, as a fellow student my natural allegiance lies with them but I totally agree that their behaviour was naive at best. Hopefully next year behaviour and co-ordination will be an improvement

 

[najaB]

And most ambitious students, generally speaking, like to keep their records clean and avoid needless suffering

Perhaps you misunderstood my post. A driver who stopped a train away from a station and told passengers to disembark onto the live railway would be looking for a new job - unless the train was on fire at the time, of course.

 

[SouthStand]

Having read through the OP's post & the linked articles, I would ask the following questions;

1. How is one conductor & one guard supposed to stop that many people boarding the train at an unstaffed station
2. Why did so many people try to board what was obviously an overcrowded service
3. Why is it wholly the fault of the rail company
4. Why did none of those passengers use a modicom of common sense & NOT board an already crowded train

Sorry, but for me, this is a classic example of how people in this country won't take any responsibility for their own actions. No one forced any of those people to get on that train, they did so of their own free will, without any concern for anyone else. When it went wrong, there follows a determined effort to blame anyone else but those actually responsible for causing the issue in the first place!

Ok, it was crowded, but to disembark from a train between stations is highly irresponsible & I personally think that the rail company is quite right to take the action it is doing.

He didn't say it was.

 

[Cinc026]

Naja B - For all I know he could be looking for a new job. Simply relating my own experience. My senses aren't perfect. But what I can say for absolute certain is that the driver stopped the train for 25 minutes between stations with no forewarning

 

[Darandio]

If you research the context of the situation you would discover that on that day there was a day festival in Bristol. The train route from Clifton is the most convenient journey, and it would surely be hoped that the travel services would acknowledge this and provide the sufficient support to ensure that the huge volume of people were safely transported to the venue.

Did the organisers of the festival attempt to arrange sufficient extra transport with First Great Western? Or did they simply organise a festival and expect everyone else to sort that problem?

 

[EM2]

But what I can say for absolute certain is that the driver stopped the train for 25 minutes between stations with no forewarning

The driver stopped it, or it was stopped because the communication cord was pulled?
If the latter, and the train was as crowded as you suggest, there is no way the driver or guard could have got to the cord to reset it.

 

[najaB]

Naja B - For all I know he could be looking for a new job. Simply relating my own experience. My senses aren't perfect. But what I can say for absolute certain is that the driver stopped the train for 25 minutes between stations with no forewarning

There may be any number of legitimate reasons why the train stopped. Signalling problems, a train blocking the section in advance, a fault with your train...

 

[Cinc026]

Naja - The reason the train stopped was overcrowding. It was not signalling. It was not a train blocking the section in advance. It was not a technical fault with our train. If you read the necessary contextual articles, this will become patently obvious

Splitting hairs aside, avoiding finger-pointing, can we all agree that steps should be taken to ensure that this doesn't happen again?

 

[najaB]

Naja - The reason the train stopped was overcrowding.

How did people join the train while it was in motion?

 

[island]

Naja - The reason the train stopped was overcrowding. It was not signalling. It was not a train blocking the section in advance. It was not a technical fault with our train. If you read the necessary contextual articles, this will become patently obvious

Splitting hairs aside, avoiding finger-pointing, can we all agree that steps should be taken to ensure that this doesn't happen again?

Can you quote the sections of the articles which say that the train stopped owing to overcrowding, to save us all from digging through them?

 

[Cinc026]

Good question Darandio - I am unsure as to whether the festival organised additional services with First Great Western, although the outcome suggests to the contrary. I do know that bus services were organised, but that they failed to sufficiently deal with situation on the day.

The responsibility lies with 3 parties it seems - festival organisers, students and transportation. I don't want to blame anyone ad hominem as that achieves nothing other than disdain; all I ask is that the experience improves in the future

"Passengers said it took about 15 minutes to get everyone on board. But just moments into the 12-minute journey, the train stopped because of overcrowding at the next station ahead, Redland." For you Naja. The article itself contradicts itself in many places, actually, having re-read it a few times. 15 minutes is also simply not true, it took about 2. The inconclusive report rather reflects the chaos at the time to be honest

 

[A-driver]

Naja - The reason the train stopped was overcrowding. It was not signalling. It was not a train blocking the section in advance. It was not a technical fault with our train. If you read the necessary contextual articles, this will become patently obvious

The driver most definitely 100% did NOT stop the train in the middle of nowhere because it was crowded. Absolutely no chance. If he was going to refuse to move it due to crowding he wouldn't have left the station. Why would the driver care how crowded the train is anyway? I drive trains into London daily which are like sardine cans and I don't care to the extent of stoping in the middle of nowhere-I have a seat in a private cab at the front so crowding dosnt affect me nor am I overly aware of it unless I get out and look through a window.

If the train was stopped due to crowding as you seem to believe then It definitely wasn't at the drivers decision. I highly suspect that if what you seem to be saying is actually what happened then the overcrowding put too much pressure on the suspension and the compressor on the unit couldn't cope with the weight and so the low main air governor kicked in locking the brakes on. This used to be a regular issue on overcrowded 313 units heading into London. If this happened then it's certainly not the drivers fault. He wouldn't have told people to get off-most definitely not-but he may have said that the issue can't be fixed until people get off. Very different things and you seem to have misinterpreted what happened. If the weight was causing issues with the air systems then the only fixes are to either reduce the onboard weight or attach another emptier unit so you have more compressors feeding the air pipe.

You are misunderstanding what went on and jumping to very uneducated conclusions which is muddying the water and poking a huge gaping hole in any argument you may think you have against the staff here.

I will bet my mortgage on the fact the driver neither stopped deliberately not told people to get off. Utter rubbish but I don't think you are making it up, I simply think you have misunderstood what you witnessed.

 

[6Gman]

It's very difficult to comment on this issue sensibly without a clear account of what happened.

Perhaps the OP should be asking his MP to press for an investigation (RAIB?) to establish the facts.

Bearing in mind my first comment I will nevertheless make two observations:

1. From the photo on the Epigram website the train was clearly crowded, but no more so than others I have used (e.g. during the Olympics, and going to Liverpool for the 3 Queens).

2. Nobody forced people to board the train at Clifton Down.

It would also be interesting to know whether the promoters spoke to FGW/GWR about this event.

 

[EM2]

1. From the photo on the Epigram website the train was clearly crowded, but no more so than others I have used (e.g. during the Olympics, and going to Liverpool for the 3 Queens).

Indeed. Get a train on the Great Eastern Main Line, or Gospel Oak-Barking (this line also has two-coach trains) in the peak, and you'll see much worse crowding than that, to the extent that you wouldn't be able to get your phone out of your pocket, let alone take a photo!