My idea for a 24/7 Thameslink Cycle Ban

[Ediswan]

By way of contrast, Great Northern have followed FCC and say:

You can take a bike with you ... at any time between Stevenage and Hertford North.

(The full current text is: You can take a bike with you at any time on trains north of Stevenage, except where shown above, and at any time between Stevenage and Hertford North.)

My point being that they have taken the trouble to make an exception where they can.

 

[AM9]

Oh I love a lycra lout... Not! [Edited]

Cyclists the only road user who's so stupid as to undertake a large coach/lorry/van and then complain bitterly that they nearly got killed when it turned left without warning. :roll:

BTW I'm not married, because most of them around here are bikes.

Wow, what a chat up line.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

.... 40 hours a week out of the 168 (2 hours am peak and 2 hours pm peak),....

Maybe maths is different now but I make that 20 hours per week.

I generally conclude that people peddling this line have never been parents or given any thought to how you do this. You are presumably expecting poor old mum to take her baby out (that's a minimum two-handed job), then release the catch (third hand) and push hard to close the buggy (at least another hand). Hold on, human beings normally come only with two hands.

Used to manage that years ago and on buses with high platforms where push chairs had to be put under the stairs.
As I commented above, single parents managed to do this on small buses, (Optare Solos) in Cornwall when wheelchaired passengers boarded, so your experience must be with fairly incapable (or bone idle) parents.

Then again, you can't fold it if the underneath contains nappies, baby food, and the other 101 supplies that become necessary. Mum apparently has to take all those out as well. Where do those get stowed? Why don't you instead tell the wheelchair user's companion, if they have one, to pull the wheelchair user out, put them in a seat, then operate all the knobs to fold it up, and stow it vertical. Reverse operation when you arrive. It's exactly the same as the buggy - one human being unable to help themselves, and one pushing.

That's the real problem, it seems that parents can't go to the shops etc. unless they have a push chair big enough to carry a teenager and enough supplies to get through the whole Christmas/New Year holiday.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Cyclists the only road user who's so stupid

That's a pretty big grammar fail, but it sums up your attitude appropriately.

"Cyclists". Plural. "The only road user". Singular.

Yes, there are some seriously retarded cyclists, and they've been the ones - maybe the one, singular - you've noticed. By the same token, if I were to judge all TOC employees by the half-formed prejudice that spews from your account then I'd never travel by train.

Fortunately I know plenty of rail staff who have a more rounded attitude than you do. Perhaps if you actually troubled to get to know some of the human beings who sometimes sit on a two-wheeled steel contraption, you might have a less Daily Mail approach to life.

BTW I'm not married, because most of them around here are bikes.

No, erm, comment.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

While I admit my annoyed initial rant may have been a little OTT some of the cyclists concerned last Saturday night were lucky not to have their cycles rammed where the sun don't shine. The train was crammed full there was just no more room for people let alone people with bikes, or bags or wheelchairs or prams or anything else. Trying to FORCE your way on to such a train with a bike is tantamount to assaulting someone with a weapon.
There is a ban on the tube and many commuter routes are getting just as busy as the tube.
Regardless of the perceived 'rights' or 'wrongs' of the argument the reality is in effect a ban of sorts anyway as cyclists (and probably wheelchair users, those with prams luggage etc) can not bank on being able to board late night services on many routes out of London - it is no use taking it out on the poor hapless passengers already crammed on board. If longer trains, specific areas dedicated for cyclists are not forthcoming then either a ban or a warning that you may not be able to board certain busy late night services needs to be looked at.

 

[jopsuk]

there's only a total ban on the deep tube- surface sections of tube lines plus the whole of the Sub Surface Lines allows bikes off-peak

 

[The Decapod]

If they ban rucksacks, briefcases, suitcases and shopping bags, that would make even more space on the trains!

 

[theironroad]

Ok, maybe the conversation developed, but right now I can't be ar*** to read the rest, but the op wants to ban wheelchairs just because a toc has failed to provide enough carriages.

Maybe the op should get in the real world, and realise that people in wheelchairs or with other mobility issues have just as much right to travel as he or she does. The attitude of I'm alright f*** the rest from the op stinks.

Flip the coin mate and imagine what it would be like if you were confined to a wheelchair for life. For the record I'm not a wheelchair user, but neither am I an ars***** who doesn't give a f*** about others.

 

[transmanche]

There is a ban on the tube and many commuter routes are getting just as busy as the tube.

Actually you can take a bike on quite a lot of the tube network.

You can take a bike off-peak[*] on the whole of the Circle, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan and District lines. On the other lines, you can take a bike off-peak on the surface sections; e.g. on the Piccadilly line this means you can take a bike with you between Baron's Court and Uxbridge/Hounslow West (and between Cockfosters and Oakwood). Plus you can take a bike off-peak on LO and DLR (except to Bank station).

* Peak is defined at 07:30-09:30 and 16:00-19:00 Mon-Fri.

 

[jon0844]

I didn't know this. Given how few bikes I see (the last was at Old Street at 9am where the man at the gate wasn't happy, although the cyclist just demanded to be let out - and was) it seems a lot of others aren't either.

 

[jopsuk]

there are a couple of bits on that map that are odd- such as Golders Green-Edgeware EXCEPT Hendon-Colindale. And why bother permitting between Cockfosters & Oakwood?

 

[petersi]

I didn't know this. Given how few bikes I see (the last was at Old Street at 9am where the man at the gate wasn't happy, although the cyclist just demanded to be let out - and was) it seems a lot of others aren't either.

There are only deep level lines at old sweet. Which I believe cycles are band at all times. I believe for safety reasons

Strangely the only time I Seen cycle try to get through the barriers was old street

 

[jon0844]

There are only deep level lines at old sweet. Which I believe cycles are band at all times. I believe for safety reasons

Strangely the only time I Seen cycle try to get through the barriers was old street

I know, hence the staff weren't happy - but didn't actually do anything (not sure what they could do, such that I wouldn't be surprised if some people do it regularly*). Can't even take bikes on the GN services south of Finsbury Park (or Drayton Park?).

But, when I think hard, I really cannot recall seeing many bikes on any tube trains. I suspect most people believe they're not allowed, or else you'd likely see more.

* At Hatfield in the evening peak, cyclists appear to say they're going into London and then cross the bridge to go north to get let in. Sometimes they're shouted at, but that's about it.

 

[transmanche]

there are a couple of bits on that map that are odd- such as Golders Green-Edgeware EXCEPT Hendon-Colindale. And why bother permitting between Cockfosters & Oakwood?

It's simply that they are above ground and they don't permit cycles in tunnel sections. (I assume this is simply because it is perceived that they would form an obstruction if the train needed to be evacuated in a tunnel.)

• The Piccadilly line surfaces between Bounds Green and Arnos Grove but goes underground again for Southgate station. Thus leaving only Oakwood and Cockfosters as the only surface stations connected to one another in this section.
• On the Northern line, there's a short tunnel between Hendon Central and Colindale.

 

[jopsuk]

I appreciate that's why- but I do wonder whether anyone ever bothers between Oakwood & Cockfosters?

 

[transmanche]

I appreciate that's why- but I do wonder whether anyone ever bothers between Oakwood & Cockfosters?

Oh I see. Well I guess it would seem churlish to ban it unnecessarily.

My personal gripe is with T&W Metro who simply refuse to consider the carriage of bikes: even following the successful trial on the DLR. Their main worry seems to be that another passenger might get oil on themselves.

 

[DeeGee]

I appreciate that's why- but I do wonder whether anyone ever bothers between Oakwood & Cockfosters?

Because cycles are permitted on the tube excep where they are explicitly banned.

How could you justify such a ban? "Because I don't see the point"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bikes are permitted on many German city buses but you barely ever see one as it's quicker to cycle - it's mainly a means of recovery. As the Tube is quite slow that's probably similar.

 

[Class377/5]

Because cycles are permitted on the tube excep where they are explicitly banned.

How could you justify such a ban? "Because I don't see the point"?

Bikes are bad on the underground sections there is many stations with limited ability get them off. Escalators are not idea for bikes add they stop the flow of people. Seen it happen many times myself. And since Kings Cross, easy flows leaving the station are a priority for underground stations.

 

[telstarbox]

But, when I think hard, I really cannot recall seeing many bikes on any tube trains. I suspect most people believe they're not allowed, or else you'd likely see more.

* At Hatfield in the evening peak, cyclists appear to say they're going into London and then cross the bridge to go north to get let in. Sometimes they're shouted at, but that's about it.

The problem with taking a bike on the tube (and this also applies to the DLR and Southeastern Metro stock) is that there's nowhere to put it except by the doors. As the doors open on both sides depending on the station you end up constantly moving the bike to let people on and off.

On your second point, I sometimes take my bike on a train into London in the evening peak (which is allowed by SE), but my local station has one gateline for all the platforms so should I not be allowed to travel in case I go the wrong way? I've never been challenged by the gateline assistant when using the wide gate.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

If they ban rucksacks, briefcases, suitcases and shopping bags, that would make even more space on the trains!

Or even if people with back packs - rucksacks took them off when joining a busy service, insted of taking up twice the room and constantly turning round to bash people out of the way. But that is perhaps my personal bete noir

 

[DeeGee]

Or even if people with back packs - rucksacks took them off when joining a busy service, insted of taking up twice the room and constantly turning round to bash people out of the way. But that is perhaps my personal bete noir

I've travelled a bit myself. On a crowded train, in a city I don't know, I want my luggage at my feet. Not behind me on my back where I can't see it, where it could be interfered with by someone else without me knowing.

 

[stut]

Bikes are permitted on many German city buses but you barely ever see one as it's quicker to cycle - it's mainly a means of recovery. As the Tube is quite slow that's probably similar.

I'm always surprised the number of bikes you see on buses in the US - particularly California.

Sweden, too - the extra-urban buses in many areas have frequently used racks.

Denmark has a confusing set of permissions and rules about bikes, but they're pretty pragmatic. The Copenhagen S-tog system allows bikes on for free at any time of day, with lots of designated space to carry them - a full carriage on the busier lines. The only restriction is one cramped station (Norreport) at peak times - but you can ride there from adjacent stations very quickly.

They're allowed on most other trains for a small supplement (payable on the Rejsekort smart card). There's always adequate space. They're even allowed on the metro (tunnel stations included) outside of peak hours, again for a supplement. It always feels particularly odd doing this!

Now, if we're banning bikes on Thameslink for taking up standing space and impeding exits, can we also allow all luggage placed in the aisle to be chucked out the window with impunity?

 

[jon0844]

The problem with taking a bike on the tube (and this also applies to the DLR and Southeastern Metro stock) is that there's nowhere to put it except by the doors. As the doors open on both sides depending on the station you end up constantly moving the bike to let people on and off.

On your second point, I sometimes take my bike on a train into London in the evening peak (which is allowed by SE), but my local station has one gateline for all the platforms so should I not be allowed to travel in case I go the wrong way? I've never been challenged by the gateline assistant when using the wide gate.

The point is that some cyclists have realised you just lie to get through, then go the other way.

I think they need to be stopped, and if that means asking all cyclists to show tickets to staff then so be it (even if they opened the gate with a valid ticket). Clearly once someone has arrived at their destination it's a bit too late if the only solution is to just let them out.

Even at King's Cross I saw people getting bikes on trains in the evening, by bypassing the gates (including walking down platform 8 and back along 9) and clearly not giving a stuff.

 

[stut]

Even at King's Cross I saw people getting bikes on trains in the evening, by bypassing the gates (including walking down platform 8 and back along 9) and clearly not giving a stuff.

Although ironically, a lot of those services are substantially quieter than the ones just after the peak (and cycling) restrictions are lifted...

 

[jon0844]

Although ironically, a lot of those services are substantially quieter than the ones just after the peak (and cycling) restrictions are lifted...

Yes, some of them. When we get all that extra capacity, it will be very interesting to see if the evening restrictions get lifted! I expect not, even though it was hinted by some staff at FCC that it was a temporary measure.

 

[transmanche]

Clearly once someone has arrived at their destination it's a bit too late if the only solution is to just let them out.

Time to introduce an £80 Penalty Fare for taking a bike on a barred service?

 

[jon0844]

Imagine the outrage! Those poor cyclists who are helping save the environment being penalised for simply trying to save the planet. The usual attempt to deflect by stating that drivers are more dangerous/polluting will then follow.

I've never taken my bike on a train and unless I get a folding one, likely never will. I'd feel compelled to stand by it the whole journey to make sure it never gets in anyone's way. Unlike most (not all, I should stress) cyclists that dump the bike in a vestibule then go and sit down, and are seemingly unaware of what happens to it thereafter by keeping their head down in a book/smartphone/tablet.

I guess the problem is that if there's a ban on non-folding (and non-folded) bikes in the peaks, and someone is breaking that rule, then they've already proven that they show total contempt. The good ones aren't going to be there in the first place.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I've never taken my bike on a train and unless I get a folding one, likely never will. I'd feel compelled to stand by it the whole journey to make sure it never gets in anyone's way

Might be a bit difficult on most Intercity stock... the guard on an HST, 180 or Pendolino would probably rather you weren't standing by the bike.

(Fine on XC's Voyagers, of course... sigh.)

 

[jon0844]

Might be a bit difficult on most Intercity stock... the guard on an HST, 180 or Pendolino would probably rather you weren't standing by the bike.

(Fine on XC's Voyagers, of course... sigh.)

Haha!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Time to introduce an £80 Penalty Fare for taking a bike on a barred service?

I would suggest a regular PF would suffice. That that should be increased to £80 is a separate thread. But yes I agree there should be a sanction.