My idea for Grand Central HST's for CrossCountry

[nat67]

As the GC HST's should be ending up there career at the end of this year it would suit CrossCountry to use them as they could do with the stock. And would be able to do maintenance on them at either Craignentinny, Neville Hill and Laira. As there is only three sets it would work, but they don't have any TGS MK3s which doesn't help. They would preferably be used on North east- South west routes or potentially Newcastle- Reading, Southampton's like the old VT XC days. They could keep the same interiors as GC haven't really done much too them any apart from the table covers. They would probably get plug doors eventually.

 

[cactustwirly]

As the GC HST's should be ending up there career at the end of this year it would suit CrossCountry to use them as they could do with the stock. And would be able to do maintenance on them at either Craignentinny, Neville Hill and Laira. As there is only three sets it would work, but they don't have any TGS MK3s which doesn't help. They would preferably be used on North east- South west routes or potentially Newcastle- Reading, Southampton's like the old VT XC days. They could keep the same interiors as GC haven't really done much too them any apart from the table covers. They would probably get plug doors eventually.

They can't be used on routes through Reading, because they have LSL bogies.

it could work for a short term hire in for the NE - SW services, however it would lead to a lower seating capacity compared to a double voyager.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hmm. Well, the interiors would look rather out of place is not refreshed, as the GC interior is a huge difference to that of a XC hst.

The front ends of GC HSTs would most likely have to be modified too.

 

[headshot119]

Hmm. Well, the interiors would look rather out of place is not refreshed, as the GC interior is a huge difference to that of a XC hst.

The front ends of GC HSTs would most likely have to be modified too.

Why would the front ends have to be modified?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why would the front ends have to be modified?

Well, they're very different to the XC HSTs front ends. I suppose they wouldn't have to be modified, but if they aren't then their fleet of HSTs would all look different.

 

[Darandio]

Well, they're very different to the XC HSTs front ends. I suppose they wouldn't have to be modified, but if they aren't then their fleet of HSTs would all look different.

They aren't very different, they have buffers, that is all. Nothing needs to be modified.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They aren't very different, they have buffers, that is all. Nothing needs to be modified.

I know, but surely it would look neater if all the HSTs looked homogeneous?

 

[Darandio]

I know, but surely it would look neater if all the HSTs looked homogeneous?

Indeed, I prefer the buffered type so they should add them to all XC HST's.

If XC did end up with these HST's they wouldn't change them just for a neater fleet though, it's completely unneccessary cost.

 

[Ianno87]

I know, but surely it would look neater if all the HSTs looked homogeneous?

Northern seem to just about cope alright with having Class 150s with different front ends, as did XC/ICEC when they previously used the former surrogate HSTs...

 

[ash39]

They wouldn't touch the front ends of the power cars. BR, Virgin and even GNER briefly (43080 IIRC) used a mixture of buffer fitted and non-buffer fitted power cars. It wouldn't be an issue.

I think it could be a worthwhile option for the displaced GC sets. Assuming the PRM conversions on their existing fleet don't encounter any problems or run wildly over budget.

There is a possibility they'll just end up scrapped though.

 

[Darandio]

There is a possibility they'll just end up scrapped though.

Until Alliance Rail come up with new proposals for a daily Fort William to Penzance service.........

 

[Clansman]

As the GC HST's should be ending up there career at the end of this year it would suit CrossCountry to use them as they could do with the stock. And would be able to do maintenance on them at either Craignentinny, Neville Hill and Laira. As there is only three sets it would work, but they don't have any TGS MK3s which doesn't help. They would preferably be used on North east- South west routes or potentially Newcastle- Reading, Southampton's like the old VT XC days. They could keep the same interiors as GC haven't really done much too them any apart from the table covers. They would probably get plug doors eventually.

All these 8 car HST sets getting binned by GWR with micro buffets, higher density seating and recently refurbished interiors, and you opt for the GC ones?

Of which offer no better improvements on capacity, compatibility with other routes and the cost required to bring them up to standard in comparison.

Where's the logic?

 

[BR60062]

As the GC HST's should be ending up there career at the end of this year it would suit CrossCountry to use them as they could do with the stock. And would be able to do maintenance on them at either Craignentinny, Neville Hill and Laira. As there is only three sets it would work, but they don't have any TGS MK3s which doesn't help. They would preferably be used on North east- South west routes or potentially Newcastle- Reading, Southampton's like the old VT XC days. They could keep the same interiors as GC haven't really done much too them any apart from the table covers. They would probably get plug doors eventually.

You are aware that GWR and VTEC are going to be shelving their HST's in 2018 right? That taken into account, what's the point of XC taking on the buffered power cars when there is going to be loads of original non-buffered examples available? That would be a better bet for XC to take those instead and maybe Network Rail could grab some original power cars to displace their buffered examples too perhaps .

 

[D365]

It takes a very special type of discussion to get members frothing about whether or not buffered 43s can be mixed.

 

[CosherB]

It takes a very special type of discussion to get members frothing about whether or not buffered 43s can be mixed.

Second only to paint froth?

 

[swt_passenger]

The current XC franchise won't be increasing their rolling stock in the medium term. This 'idea' is not original at all, but XC already have a plan agreed with the DfT, and publicised, and it doesn't allow for extra HSTs at all. (As the next post reminds me the agreed plan is only for greater utilisation of the 5 they already have, with 4 in service every day.)

 

[Rich McLean]

The only chance they have of ending up on XC is on short term lease after December covering for power door mods. There were meant to be 4 XC sets out daily from Dec 2017 TT change but that now may not happen until all sets are finished and exams caught up with.

 

[Chester1]

The current XC franchise won't be increasing their rolling stock in the medium term. This 'idea' is not original at all, but XC already have a plan agreed with the DfT, and publicised, and it doesn't allow for extra HSTs at all. (As the next post reminds me the agreed plan is only for greater utilisation of the 5 they already have, with 4 in service every day.)

Which is a shame because they really need a significant increase in capacity. I am currently sitting on a 4 coach CrossCountry Voyager which as per ussual is overcrowded. More HST sets would allow most or all of the Voyagers to be doubled up. They would be cheap to lease because there will be many available soon and they will be scrapped otherwise. I agree with other posters though GWR sets are more suitable than GC.

 

[Darandio]

They would be cheap to lease because there will be many available soon and they will be scrapped otherwise.

Leasing is only a partial element of costs though, there are track access charges too and these have been a bone of contention with XC in the past with regards to the use of their own HST fleet.

 

[BR60062]

With the VTEC ones also coming off lease from the East Coast. There will be a fair few non-buffered HST power cars available for other TOC's and I have a feeling that Network Rail will want some to replace their fleet of buffered power cars with the non-buffered ones when the time is right.

So I would think the safe bet for the buffered HST power cars would be perhaps a couple could well go to the 125group with a second power car for a source of spares to make one as a Valenta powered one eventually. Then any spare HST's left over will either be scrapped with the exception of one or two sets passing over to the 125 group for preservation and maybe a power car going to the NRM collection .

If XC did gain more HST's for their fleet. They could displace 2x2 220/221 sets that are used on the more densely populated routes that they operate around the UK provided that the access charges are not more costly as DMU/DEMU's are cheaper to use from what I am learning about the industry .

 

[Blindtraveler]

The HST's are great trains, always have been always will be but the fact is they have come to the end of their lives. Yes they will live on in certain places but we are going to see reliability steadily drop off in the next 5 or so years and ultimately they will be scrapped.

Best bet for GC's sets given their internal condition is the tours/charter market. Lovers of MK1s and MK2s will find I think quite a few of them becoming sider tins for sale on railtours opperated by withdrawn HSTs.

 

[43096]

The HST's are great trains, always have been always will be but the fact is they have come to the end of their lives. Yes they will live on in certain places but we are going to see reliability steadily drop off in the next 5 or so years and ultimately they will be scrapped.

Best bet for GC's sets given their internal condition is the tours/charter market. Lovers of MK1s and MK2s will find I think quite a few of them becoming sider tins for sale on railtours opperated by withdrawn HSTs.

The HST certainly has plenty of attributes for the charter market in terms of speed (can cover mainline stretches quickly), comfort (full a/c), reliability (two power cars) and operational flexibility (cab at each end, so need for dead locos on the back) - all of which EMT demonstrated splendidly last weekend on their tour to Pickering and Whitby.

 

[yorksrob]

I find the amount of sarcasm on this thread quite surprising, for what would be a relatively straight forward cascade, particularly as the XC network suffers overcrowding and HST's are likely to be around on those routes for some time anyway.

It's only our loony track access regime which prevents it happening.

 

[43096]

It's only our loony track access regime which prevents it happening.

And the loony DfT!

 

[yorksrob]

The HST certainly has plenty of attributes for the charter market in terms of speed (can cover mainline stretches quickly), comfort (full a/c), reliability (two power cars) and operational flexibility (cab at each end, so need for dead locos on the back) - all of which EMT demonstrated splendidly last weekend on their tour to Pickering and Whitby.

All of which demonstrates their absolute suitability for second tier InterCity services such as XC

 

[yorksrob]

And the loony DfT!

Them too.

 

[43096]

All of which demonstrates their absolute suitability for second tier InterCity services such as XC

Yes..... But XC is no longer an InterCity service. In reality it's just a jumped-up Sprinter railway.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes..... But XC is no longer an InterCity service. In reality it's just a jumped-up Sprinter railway.

That is a symptom of the problem, not a justification for it.

 

[Clansman]

I love how this thread has turned so quickly from the original proposition onto the inferiority of XC and their rolling stock, as well as everyone's dismay at the fact that proposals aren't segregated into their own sub.

These threads don't disappoint

 

[AnonymousUser1]

I would have thought something like "Railway Fantasies" would fit the bill nicely .

'crayonista playpen' more like