My idea for re-establishing Cross Country Service To Brighton

[Pumbaa]

The London and SE RUS does propose both though, ie 2 tph at 8 car length. The factor left open for discussion sems to be whether to run the second train further north than Watford Jn...

Yes I have no problem with both! I remember reading the RUS and discussing this last time with you I was merely indicating that increase of frequency would be preferable to increase in length.

I merely propose one tph running north of Watford to cater for the existing commuter market, the other running south of Clapham likewise. The key market is Watford - Clapham.

 

[ushawk]

The Southern WLL services are EXTREMELY well used, why they are being extended to 8-coaches. When Southern get the 377/5s back, they could possibly be used to run an additional hourly service from Brighton to MKC - Calling at Haywards Heath, Three Bridges, Gatwick Airport, Redhill, East Croydon, Clapham Jct and then as the current service - could operate in the opposite half hour to the current service. With the additional platform going in at Gatwick, it could possibly start there - giving the WCML a link to the airport again.

Of course, pathing will be a problem, especially at Windmill Bridge Jct.

 

[cm39275]

though this idea off extending these services to brighton is good one on paper, it proberly not the most pratical idea. anouther good idea which is also more pratical than brighton is to extend the 2 services xcountry have that start and terminate at guildford to be extened to start and terminate at portsmouth still serving guildford in the process and even the train that starts at winchester and the train that terminates at eastleigh could also be extended to portsmouth and keep these trains to serve winchester in booth dirctions. that way portsmouth regains it direct services to birmingham and the north, xcounrty will then save having to run an empty train from eastleigh to guildford everyday to help retain route knowledge via havant as the service from portsmouth that go via guildford cover that route where as the srvice from portsmouth via eastleigh and winchester covers the route as far as fareham and fareham to eastleigh via botley and all the xcountry that operate the service will need to to learn the the short spur into portsmouth rater than all the way to brighton from havant which whould reduce coast to training the staff.

 

[andykn]

I can't imagine that a particularly large number of places in Central London are made more accessible by the Central line at Shepherd's Bush, particularly as the service isn't quite frequent enough in London terms for that to be a common choice. I'm prepared to be surprised though, if you can find some journeys where you can make big time savings.

Westfield is definitely a pull, the proportion of people using Shepherd's Bush who are stereotypically female and bearing shopping bags must be ~80% at certain times. Not that I'm encouraging any stereotypes, mind.

The 3tph WLL service (including a Watford train) was popular before Shepherds Bush and Westfield opened. Remarkable when you consider there was only 2 trains a day a few years earlier.

 

[starrymarkb]

My impression of cross country services in general, particularly those that used to go through Kensington, was that they were very popular with old people who were spending the day travelling and didn't want to have to change multiple times to cross London.

Unfortunately the old ladies are usually price sensitive and are often happy to make changes if it saves them money..

I get loads at work wanting to undertake complicated 4-5 hour journeys with 3 or 4 changes of bus rather then pay £5 to take the direct train that takes 45 mins!

 

[Clip]

Could be interesting (presumably as an extension of EMT Sheffield services, rather than XC), but like hell you're going to get paths through the Snow Hill tunnel. :P

Probably not and i ver much doubt that anyone would want to do such a journey either. Let alone one that goes via Reading.

 

[acg5324]

The Connex services to Rugby were planned to eventually get to Manchester Piccadilly via Birmingham but thankfully it didn't come off. With only ever a maximum of 13 units available assuming nothing was on maintenance and the WCML being rebuilt as well.

Once again I will plug my website listing the History of the XC services to and from Brighton on http://www.1S76.com

For two years there was a Hull/Leeds to Brighton service which for your money got you class 31/45/47 haulage north of Birmingham, 08 haulage at Sheffield when they joined the portions up and class 47 haulage south of New St.

There is definitely a mark for a through service from Brighton but the available paths have been used up and the DfT ended the service so its likely to be up to them if it got restored. December sees even more services over the West London line as well.

You might get away with a service to and from Gatwick via Redhill and Guildford

 

[ushawk]

though this idea off extending these services to brighton is good one on paper, it proberly not the most pratical idea. anouther good idea which is also more pratical than brighton is to extend the 2 services xcountry have that start and terminate at guildford to be extened to start and terminate at portsmouth still serving guildford in the process and even the train that starts at winchester and the train that terminates at eastleigh could also be extended to portsmouth and keep these trains to serve winchester in booth dirctions. that way portsmouth regains it direct services to birmingham and the north, xcounrty will then save having to run an empty train from eastleigh to guildford everyday to help retain route knowledge via havant as the service from portsmouth that go via guildford cover that route where as the srvice from portsmouth via eastleigh and winchester covers the route as far as fareham and fareham to eastleigh via botley and all the xcountry that operate the service will need to to learn the the short spur into portsmouth rater than all the way to brighton from havant which whould reduce coast to training the staff.

Trains run through to Eastleigh via Havant and Botley after terminating at Guildford to retain route knowledge for that WHOLE route - only reason the Guildford services exist. Could always extend to Havant, and have a connection there for Portsmouth - although that train would probably come from Waterloo - via Guildford.

 

[TEW]

The guard for the service isn't onboard beyond Guildford so it couldn't run in passenger service to Havant. It's not the only way XC retain route knowledge via Guildford, crews pass on FGW and SWT services to keep up knowledge as well.

 

[SussexSpotter]

though this idea off extending these services to brighton is good one on paper, it proberly not the most pratical idea. anouther good idea which is also more pratical than brighton is to extend the 2 services xcountry have that start and terminate at guildford to be extened to start and terminate at portsmouth still serving guildford in the process and even the train that starts at winchester and the train that terminates at eastleigh could also be extended to portsmouth and keep these trains to serve winchester in booth dirctions. that way portsmouth regains it direct services to birmingham and the north, xcounrty will then save having to run an empty train from eastleigh to guildford everyday to help retain route knowledge via havant as the service from portsmouth that go via guildford cover that route where as the srvice from portsmouth via eastleigh and winchester covers the route as far as fareham and fareham to eastleigh via botley and all the xcountry that operate the service will need to to learn the the short spur into portsmouth rater than all the way to brighton from havant which whould reduce coast to training the staff.

The only problem with extending the Guildford services to Portsmouth.....the times they would leave/arrive you'd be looking at about a 0530 (maybe earlier) departure and an after midnight arrival, wouldn't be worth it and I doubt hardly anyone would use it if it ran to those times to still stick to the current guildford paths. The only way it could work is if they retimed them!

 

[TEW]

It would have to run between the 0425 from Portsmouth Harbour and 0557 from Haslemere, the ECS currently follow the 0425 from Portsmouth up the Portsmouth Direct Line. Would probably have to leave Portsmouth before 0500, which wouldn't be very attractive. The down ECS currently follows the 2230 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour down the Porstmouth Direct Line, so there would be a dwell of nearly 15 minutes at Guildford, arrival at Portsmouth would be about 0015, not very attractive either. The fact that the services already have connections from the Portsmouth line mean there is less of a need for them to run in service as well.

 

[SussexSpotter]

It would have to run between the 0425 from Portsmouth Harbour and 0557 from Haslemere, the ECS currently follow the 0425 from Portsmouth up the Portsmouth Direct Line. Would probably have to leave Portsmouth before 0500, which wouldn't be very attractive. The down ECS currently follows the 2230 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour down the Porstmouth Direct Line, so there would be a dwell of nearly 15 minutes at Guildford, arrival at Portsmouth would be about 0015, not very attractive either. The fact that the services already have connections from the Portsmouth line mean there is less of a need for them to run in service as well.

There is a possibility to opperate a Sunday service though as the morning services leaves Guildford around midday

Although I have to admit I am very suprised Cross Country havn't tapped into the Portsmouth market properly yet as I should think there would be greater demand there than Bournemouth, you only have to look what's at Portsmouth to realise that, historic dock yard, gunwharf keys, spinnaker tower, the isle of white ferry, ferry to gosport, shops, restaurants and loads more. All Bournemouth really has is a beach and during the winter I can't imagine demand for Bournemouth XC services is that high really.

 

[OxtedL]

There is a possibility to opperate a Sunday service though as the morning services leaves Guildford around midday

This is a bit desperate now.

 

[Lrd]

There is a possibility to opperate a Sunday service though as the morning services leaves Guildford around midday

Although I have to admit I am very suprised Cross Country havn't tapped into the Portsmouth market properly yet as I should think there would be greater demand there than Bournemouth, you only have to look what's at Portsmouth to realise that, historic dock yard, gunwharf keys, spinnaker tower, the isle of white ferry, ferry to gosport, shops, restaurants and loads more. All Bournemouth really has is a beach and during the winter I can't imagine demand for Bournemouth XC services is that high really.

There's also Southampton and Brockenhurst.

Southampton has the Seacity Museum, West Quay, Mayflower Park, Boat Show, IOW Ferry, Ferry to Hythe, shops, restaurants and loads more.

Brockenhurst is a key entry to the New Forest and has a connection to Lymington Pier where another IOW Ferry leaves.

And then you also got Bournemouth on top of that, as well as connections to Weymouth.

 

[SussexSpotter]

There's also Southampton and Brockenhurst.

Southampton has the Seacity Museum, West Quay, Mayflower Park, Boat Show, IOW Ferry, Ferry to Hythe, shops, restaurants and loads more.

Brockenhurst is a key entry to the New Forest and has a connection to Lymington Pier where another IOW Ferry leaves.

And then you also got Bournemouth on top of that, as well as connections to Weymouth.

But Portsmouth is the second largest city in Hampshire, and has 2 stations, also on the route is Fratton with the Pompey Football stadium.

 

[Lrd]

But Portsmouth is the second largest city in Hampshire, and has 2 stations, also on the route is Fratton with the Pompey Football stadium.

What's the first largest city?

With 5 stations, not including the airport station.

Oh, and also an airport.

 

[Ivo]

Winchester is the only city in Hampshire

[/pedant]

 

[Lrd]

Winchester is the only city in Hampshire

[/pedant]

Sorry, I don't follow. I've always lived in the city of Southampton...

 

[SussexSpotter]

Sorry, I don't follow

Same, lol.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's the first largest city?

With 5 stations, not including the airport station.

Oh, and also an airport.

Well Southampton obviously, but I mean quite a lot of XC services start and terminate there anyway. Surely Portsmouth deserves to get a XC service, the case might even be stonger than Brighton.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I thought Portsmouth was dropped after Operation Princess flopped because it was found that running there was a complete waste of time with generally empty services and little point, compared to Bournemouth?

 

[SussexSpotter]

I thought Portsmouth was dropped after Operation Princess flopped because it was found that running there was a complete waste of time with generally empty services and little point, compared to Bournemouth?

But that was then and were withdrawn nearly a decade ago (2003), fewer passengers were using trains then compared to now. I also believe there has been more development for toursim and shopping at Portsmouth since.

XC should carry out an investigation and see whether there is a serious business case to run 1 or maybe a few services each day.

 

[Ivo]

Winchester is the only city in Hampshire

[/pedant]

Sorry, I don't follow. I've always lived in the city of Southampton...

Same, lol

Take the hint from the [/pedant] - Portsmouth and Southampton are both Unitary Authorities and thus independent from Hampshire

 

[Lrd]

Take the hint from the [/pedant] - Portsmouth and Southampton are both Unitary Authorities and thus independent from Hampshire

Oh, even though they are both in Hampshire?

 

[LE Greys]

Getting back to Brighton would only really work if we had both Airtrack and a link from the Colnbrook branch to the GWML westbound. That would give you Heathrow-Guildford-Gatwick-Brighton. This would replace the coach link, connect two airports and regain the Brighton link. Otherwise, it's a bit pointless.

 

[SussexSpotter]

Getting back to Brighton would only really work if we had both Airtrack and a link from the Colnbrook branch to the GWML westbound. That would give you Heathrow-Guildford-Gatwick-Brighton. This would replace the coach link, connect two airports and regain the Brighton link. Otherwise, it's a bit pointless.

Couldn't they just opperate the Cross Country service via Feltham and call there, that way passengers could catch the bus service to Heathrow, maybe even call at Staines as well for Thorpe Park and as an alternative place to alight for Heathrow? Then train then continues to Ascot, serving it only on race days, and fast to Reading. That would be the best option if they want to connect the main airports and the cheapest too.

 

[LE Greys]

Couldn't they just opperate the Cross Country service via Feltham and call there, that way passengers could catch the bus service to Heathrow, maybe even call at Staines as well for Thorpe Park and as an alternative place to alight for Heathrow? Then train then continues to Ascot, serving it only on race days, and fast to Reading. That would be the best option if they want to connect the main airports and the cheapest too.

The point is to get rid of the bus links entirely. It would have to be an extension of the Reading-Newcastle service, calling Heathrow Airport (Terminal 5)-Staines-Woking-Guildford-Redhill-Gatwick Airport-Three Bridges-Brighton. That's a bit of a zig-zag compared with the direct way through Kenny O, but presumably that's unavailable, and anyway would require a stop at West Drayton. There would obviously have to be a lot more than just one XC per hour to justify the chord, so presumably some Crossrail services, or something else, would have to run through to Reading.

 

[Ivo]

Couldn't they just opperate the Cross Country service via Feltham and call there, that way passengers could catch the bus service to Heathrow, maybe even call at Staines as well for Thorpe Park and as an alternative place to alight for Heathrow? Then train then continues to Ascot, serving it only on race days, and fast to Reading. That would be the best option if they want to connect the main airports and the cheapest too.

I certainly wouldn't complain if XC called at Feltham - actually, allowing for them running Voyagers I probably would but that's besides the point - but is there any need? It is hardly fair on long-distance travellers to have to transfer from 125mph DEMUs to a single-deck London Bus. Indeed, most people would probably decline such an option. It aside, I see no justification for Staines, and calling at Ascot for race purposes - though sensible - is hardly typical of CrossCountry.

In essence, I see no value to this proposal. Sorry.

 

[SussexSpotter]

I certainly wouldn't complain if XC called at Feltham - actually, allowing for them running Voyagers I probably would but that's besides the point - but is there any need? It is hardly fair on long-distance travellers to have to transfer from 125mph DEMUs to a single-deck London Bus. Indeed, most people would probably decline such an option. It aside, I see no justification for Staines, and calling at Ascot for race purposes - though sensible - is hardly typical of CrossCountry.

In essence, I see no value to this pr

oposal. Sorry.

Perhaps if the bus service was improved at Feltham for Heathrow it might be more attractive. I've lived in Eastbourne all my life and I have to say the bus service round here is excellent, and has certainly improved year on year. If the same level service opperated in Feltham I shouldn't see why it wouldn't be attractive to passengers getting off a Voyager at Feltham for a bus service to Heathrow, if it was fast.

 

[Ivo]

Perhaps if the bus service was improved at Feltham for Heathrow it might be more attractive. I've lived in Eastbourne all my life and I have to say the bus service round here is excellent, and has certainly improved year on year. If the same level service opperated in Feltham I shouldn't see why it wouldn't be attractive to passengers getting off a Voyager at Feltham for a bus service to Heathrow, if it was fast.

Feltham just isn't big enough. It's as simple as that. If you want an idea, among all the letter-prefix routes in London that designate their "home" area, Feltham (which under one of the capital's myriad "H" designations, for Hounslow I assume) has just one - the H26. And having been on it more than any other London bus route, and by quite a margin, I can tell you that it really is pretty quiet!

Feltham's bus service is excellent as it is. There isn't really much that can be done that wouldn't be seen as excessive (except for possibly stopping the X26 close to the Harlington Road crossroads).

Its location doesn't help either - you have to go all the way round the airport to access the central hub area...

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

There are also comments re this subject on this "General discussion" thread, under Ealing Broadway-WLL-Wandsworth Road Service Withdrawal. Certainly is a good idea.