My idea for Southeastern seat reservations from St Pancras.

[highspeed990]

Southeastern says they do not provide seat reservations on their website. Surely this must be different For the high speed railway to St Pancras. I mean it's an intercity rail link and the fastest one in the UK. Do you have to stand at 140 mph in the event of overcrowding?

 

[sd0733]

No theres no reservations. I think the 395s have electronic reservation screens but they aren't used. So the answer is yes people would stand in the event of overcrowding, just as people would be standing if there were reservations. Granted, they may be different people standing, but the same amout of people would be there still.

 

[highspeed990]

No theres no reservations. I think the 395s have electronic reservation screens but they aren't used. So the answer is yes people would stand in the event of overcrowding, just as people would be standing if there were reservations. Granted, they may be different people standing, but the same amout of people would be there still.

We'll that's a shame. Does it get frequently overcrowded?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Southeastern says they do not provide seat reservations on their website. Surely this must be different For the high speed railway to St Pancras. I mean it's an intercity rail link

It's not, it's a high speed commuter service.

and the fastest one in the UK. Do you have to stand at 140 mph in the event of overcrowding?

Standing is permitted, yes.

 

[Harbouring]

The good news is as the trains go so quickly, if you do have to stand, you won't need to do so for long.

 

[Bromley boy]

Southeastern says they do not provide seat reservations on their website. Surely this must be different For the high speed railway to St Pancras. I mean it's an intercity rail link and the fastest one in the UK. Do you have to stand at 140 mph in the event of overcrowding?

No seat reservations.

Remember HS1 has a line speed of a shade under 190mph and is of very high quality.

A Javelin is probably smoother at 140mph than most trains are at 70.

 

[highspeed990]

It's not, it's a high speed commuter service.



Standing is permitted, yes.

High speed commuter service? Is that the excuse they use?

 

[SPADTrap]

High speed commuter service? Is that the excuse they use?

I'd say that is a statement of fact, what are you struggling with? Would you prefer a sort of reservations only no standing system?

 

[Ianno87]

We'll that's a shame. Does it get frequently overcrowded?

Not really. A handful of the busiest high peak trains, plus key trains on (say) Saturday mornings (e.g. a 6-car set from Canterbury)

 

[highspeed990]

I'd say that is a statement of fact, what are you struggling with? Would you prefer a sort of reservations only no standing system?

Nope, I'd prefer reservations for people who book in advance, and people without reservations will have to stand, as well as anyone else with an advance ticket whose train had no more reservations available. Quite a revolutionary idea. Oh wait most other long distance/high speed train company does this.

 

[Harbouring]

Nope, I'd prefer reservations for people who book in advance, and people without reservations will have to stand, as well as anyone else with an advance ticket whose train had no more reservations available. Quite a revolutionary idea. Oh wait most other long distance/high speed train company does this.

No other commuter trains do this, and the javelins are not long distance unless you do a full loop back to STP.

 

[Bald Rick]

High speed, yes; long distance, no.

 

[tsr]

This is not unique amongst higher-speed commuter operators. Chiltern, for example, may not have trains that travel quite as fast, but they have some very decent express stuff from the Midlands (some of which can be full & standing) and yet no reservations on them.

 

[highspeed990]

So this is actually considered a commuter link? I thought commuter trains were trains that stop frequently and often but not always, don't travel far.

The East Midlands Trains service between Liverpool and Norwich offers reservations. So do regional cross country services. Are these not commuter trains? Chiltern railways I understand as it is not intended to serve exclusively high speed services.

Bedford to London East Midlands Trains offers seat reservations as it is an intercity train, whereas Thameslink doesn't as it frequently stops. Do you see what I mean?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Some of Chiltern's services used to do Warwick Parkway non-stop to London, one is still non-stop from Leamington, and many are still non-stop from Banbury.

Some of London Midland's services are non-stop Northampton to Euston.

By your definitions as per SE High Speed, do these also fouling the reservations rule? All three TOCs also operate all-shacks commuter local services, and Chiltern, like SE, also utilise a different brand for the faster services.

 

[highspeed990]

Some of Chiltern's services used to do Warwick Parkway non-stop to London, one is still non-stop from Leamington, and many are still non-stop from Banbury.

Some of London Midland's services are non-stop Northampton to Euston.

By your definitions as per SE High Speed, do these also fouling the reservations rule? All three TOCs also operate all-shacks commuter local services, and Chiltern, like SE, also utilise a different brand for the faster services.

It would be awkward to put reservations on certain trains only that travel the same route, as the people making the reservations wouldn't mind taking a slightly slower train, but those wouldn't have reservations.

As for the London Midland, Virgin Trains West Coast does provide reservations from Northampton if I remember correctly. you have a point but there's something about a high speed 140mph bullet train type service being classified as a commuter link, and not offering reservations that seems wrong.

 

[Mojo]

It would be awkward to put reservations on certain trains only that travel the same route, as the people making the reservations wouldn't mind taking a slightly slower train, but those wouldn't have reservations.

This doesn't seem to be a big issue, for example CrossCountry from Birmingham to Leicester only offer reservations on their services that continue through to Cambridge/Stansted Airport, the ones that start/finish at Leicester are un-reservable. Similarly from Birmingham to Derby/Nottingham all of the Voyager/HST services offer reservations but on the Turbostar operated services to Nottingham it is primarily the ones that have come through from Cardiff that are reservable (although a minority of the Birmingham starters also offer reservations).

 

[Bald Rick]

So this is actually considered a commuter link? I thought commuter trains were trains that stop frequently and often but not always, don't travel far.

The SE High speed services stop frequently, and don't travel far. For example, the Ramsgate via Chatham services stop, on average, every seven minutes before joining HS1. They are very much commuter services.

And no, the Liverpool to Norwich, and XC regional services are not considered commuter services (albeit some people do commute on them).

 

[paul1609]

High speed, yes; long distance, no.

London St Pancras to Margate via Ashford International is 94 miles about the same as Coventry from London Euston or Chippenham from london Paddington.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

London St Pancras to Margate via Ashford International is 94 miles about the same as Coventry from London Euston or Chippenham from london Paddington.

And is similar to Kings Cross to Lings Lynn and way less than Waterloo to Bournemouth. Should GTR and SWR have reservations too? How many punters would use the service via Ashford to Margate vice the one via Whitstable?

 

[Starmill]

How many punters would use the service via Ashford to Margate vice the one via Whitstable?

Presumably most of them, as it's quicker to go that way!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Presumably most of them, as it's quicker to go that way!

So it is, I forgot they run via Sturry and not just Folkestone.

My point still stands re: distance though!

 

[Bald Rick]

London St Pancras to Margate via Ashford International is 94 miles about the same as Coventry from London Euston or Chippenham from london Paddington.

Yes; and if trains from Euston and Paddington terminated at Coventry and Chippenham respectively, and stopped 6/7 times on the way, you'd have a point.

 

[Starmill]

I have always thought that services between London and Weymouth should offer some reserved seating. It doesn't seem it would be too difficult to offer in just a few carriages and might give more confidence to people making the very long journeys between Dorset and London.

Similarly with the London Midland services to Crewe - these are the only choice for most people from Nuneaton, Tamworth and Lichfield as there are so few VT services from between these places and London. Why not offer decent catering and reservations to entice these passengers?

Of course, Lichfield, Tamworth, Weymouth and Dorchester are rather further from London than almost all of Kent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LM don't need to "entice" anyone at the moment, the services are already seriously overcrowded.

 

[Starmill]

Only because of people from North West England, not because of people from Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton who have essentially no choice but to use that service.

By extension, only because the services from North West England are too overpriced.

 

[Bromley boy]

It’s an interesting point actually.

What determines which services should have seat reservations and which shouldn’t?

It’s possible to get a London Midland service to Birmingham with no reserved seat. In a train that takes circa 2 hours plus.
A VT service from london to Euston takes circa 1:20 but reservations are available.

Equally a train from ramsgate to London can take 2:00+, depending on route, but no reserved seats are available.

I suspect it’s mostly about TOC. Reservations are available on an intercity TOC’s shortest routes, but not on a commuter TOC’s longest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only because of people from North West England, not because of people from Lichfield, Tamworth and Nuneaton who have essentially no choice but to use that service.

By extension, only because the services from North West England are too overpriced.

Stoke aside this is not true. They load lightly from Crewe, it's at the Trent Valley stations they really become rammed.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, because the majority of the seats have already been taken by people who boarded at Stoke-on-Trent and Stafford. It appears that they become busy after Tamworth because that is the point at which people are generally getting on with no seats to go to.

 

[SaveECRewards]

One thing that's not been discussed much here is the fact that the SE Javelins all have electronic reservations screens fitted above each seat, therefore it's not the same as most other trains that don't offer reservations and would need some people going round with paper slips.

What would SE need to do if they wanted to offer reservations in the future? Is everything needed on the train installed already (the server and software needed?) the same in the control room, are all the systems in place that they could offer them if they wanted?

Have the screens ever been used either as a trial or when the trains were first introduced?

Do these trains really need reservations? Not in my experience, although if I was a commuter on the line I'd like the prospect of being able to reserve a seat on 'my' train each morning (assuming they let season ticket holders reserve, like VTEC does), I don't see the lack of reservations being a deal breaker for many.

So my view is if the systems are all in place and it's just a matter of enabling them it would be an interesting experiment, but I don't think it's worth investing serious resources into it.