National Routeing Guide update

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by RJ, 16 Apr 2014.

  1. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    I was thinking of this in terms of what you can obtain an itenary for from a web site rather than what is valid as such. I know they tend to use versions of the fare rule which contain more rules and more data than the one published on the web site.

    In this case, having to use a route which is valid on a via Chesterfield ticket would mean that you couldn't travel via Doncaster. Having just tried a search on a web site, however, and been told that I can use an "any permitted" ticket with an itinerary via Meadowhall, Doncaster and London (or a "Virgin Trains East Coast & other TOC connecting services" one, for that matter), I don't know what to think now.
     
  2. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Some more changes were published this afternoon.

    Changes from 190111 (242) to 190116 (243).

    Permitted Route changes:
    Alexandra Palace (AAP) to Norwich (NRW) lose KE+OV+EA
    Finsbury Park (FPK) to Norwich (NRW) lose KE+OV+EA
    These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
    via Willesden Junction; or
    ones via Hackney Wick which don't go through Whitechapel.

    Hitchin (HIT) to Norwich (NRW) lose KP+AB
    Norwich (NRW) to Stevenage (SVG) lose AB+KP
    These journeys no longer have mapped routes via Peterborough.

    Kilmarnock (KMK) to Troon Group (G81) gain EG+FW
    This journey now has mapped routes via Glasgow.
    There were already "not via Glasgow" tickets for routes such as Kilmarnock-Troon, so this makes the "any permitted" ones more useful.

    London Group (G01) to Westerton (WES) lose KS+EC+EG
    This journey now has mapped routes via Maryhill.
    That isn't anything to do with this change, which does nothing.

    Map changes:
    EG: Lose Springburn to/from Westerton

    FW: Gain Glasgow Group to/from Westerton
    FW: Lose Springburn to/from Westerton

    GF: Lose Springburn to/from Westerton

    GK: Gain Glasgow Group to/from Westerton

    GO: Gain Glasgow Group to/from Westerton

    SR: Gain Bellgrove to/from Glasgow Group
    SR: Gain Bellgrove to/from Springburn
    SR: Gain Glasgow Group to/from Westerton
    SR: Lose Springburn to/from Westerton

    WN: Gain Glasgow Group to/from Westerton
    In other words, Glasgow-Westerton has been added to the five maps from which it was removed last May, and Springburn-Westerton removed from the four maps to which it was added in 2016.

    In addition, Bellgrove has been added to SR, with links to Glasgow and Springburn.

    I haven't worked out what the overall effect of this is. EG and GO (in particular) are used a lot.

    Easement changes:

    Removed:
    700833 (Map) Due to engineering works between Petts Wood and Lewisham, trains will be diverted via New Beckenham and New Cross on the weekends of the 29-30 December 2018 and 05-06 January 2019. This affects journey planning involving more than one service, and requires temporary routeing data to be put in place. This map easement will apply in both directions.
    The dates for this have passed now.
     
  3. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    I'll admit to being surprised here - I thought most of the journey planners applied the rule that you can use an Any Permitted fare on any journey where a cheaper routed fare with the same ticket type is valid. Certainly the one I'm involved with does, as does the one used by Trainline, but none of the others seem to, according to a few quick tests I've just done.
    That one's covered by Easement 700369: Customers travelling via Swinton to Wombwell or Elsecar may travel via Meadowhall. This easement applies in both directions.
     
  4. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Some more changes were published yesterday.
    Changes from 190116 (243) to 190117 (244).

    Permitted Route changes:
    Lancaster Group (G64) to Liverpool Group (G18) gain WG+CP WG+NR lose CU+CV MX+NO MX+NR XV XW
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Blackburn;
    via Crewe; and
    via Manchester.
    It now has mapped routes which go via both Warrington and Earlestown.

    Easement changes:

    Added:
    700840 (Map) Customers travelling between Liverpool Lime Street and Lancaster on tickets priced on fare routes (00474; 00515 and 00516) VIRGIN TRAINS may travel via Crewe. This map easement applies in both directions.
    There are Virgin-only advance fares and 1st class upgrades between Lancaster and Liverpool, each of which uses one of these route codes (none of which is actually called "VIRGIN TRAINS"). This easement means that these tickets can still be used even with the above change, and without having to have an "AP VTWC Crewe" route code.
     
  5. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Some more changes were published on Wednesday.
    Changes from 190117 (244) to 190123 (245).

    Permitted Route changes:
    Crewe (CRE) to Lancaster Group (G64) gain BM+WG CG
    This journey now has mapped routes via Earlestown.

    Hunts Cross Group (G70) to Lancaster Group (G64) gain CP+WG JG+WG lose CP+XP CV+CU NR+MX XV XW
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Blackburn;
    via Crewe; or
    via Manchester.
    It now has mapped routes via Earlestown.

    Huyton (HUY) to Lancaster Group (G64) gain CP+WG lose NO+MX NR+MX XV XW
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Blackburn; or
    via Manchester.
    It now has mapped routes via the direct route between Wigan and Newton-le-Willows;

    Lancaster Group (G64) to Runcorn (RUN) gain WG+CP WG+LC lose CU+CV XP+CP XV+CV
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Bolton;
    via Blackburn; or
    via Manchester.
    It now has mapped routes via Earlestown.

    Liverpool Group (G18) to Oxenholme Lake District (OXN) gain JP+XP KW+XP lose CV+CU XV XW
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Crewe;
    via Clitheroe;
    via Southport;
    via both Kirkdale and Burscough Bridge; or
    ones via Kirkdale and Leyland which don't go via Wigan or Earlestown.

    Easement changes:

    Added:

    700841 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling from Alsager to Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate G-Mex, Salford Crescent, Manchester Victoria and Salford Central may travel via Crewe. This routeing point easement overrides (NFM64) fares checking and operates in both directions.
    Before this the only valid routeing point was Stockport. This is unusual as the shortest route between Alsager and Stockport passes through the routeing point at Cheadle Hulme.

    Changed:

    700840 (Map) Customers travelling between from Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool South Parkway to Preston, Kirkham & Wesham, Blackpool North, Lancaster or Oxenholme the Lake District on tickets priced on fare routes (00474; 00515 and 00516) VIRGIN TRAINS may travel via Crewe. This map easement applies in both directions.
    This covers more of the tickets someone with a Virgin-only ticket may wish to use via Crewe. Liverpool-Carlisle is valid via Crewe anyway, although Liverpool-Penrith isn't. Virgin have had trains start at Liverpool South Parkway when Lime Street was closed, and there are advance tickets ready for if it happens again.

    Personally, though, I'd rather they sold advance tickets with a route which shows they're valid via Crewe, and dropped this easement. They wouldn't need to keep the easement around until existing tickets are used because all Virgin-only tickets have reservations throughout.

    If this was extended to cover Penrith, I'd prefer it if they also created a flexible ticket which is valid on this route. Otherwise, someone trying to buy a Virgin advance in one direction and a flexible ticket in the other would have to know the advance ticket needed to be via Crewe, and the flexible one not via Crewe, and then know how to buy those online.

    There are no SVHs on the routes this easement covers now, though, so someone trying to do the same thing would only need to know that the ticket in each direction needs to use a different route.
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Seems silly to remove the latter. I guess still valid via Ormskirk though?
     
  7. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    It's still valid via Liverpool-Kirkdale-Ormskirk-Preston-Oxenholme because that's the shortest route. It's not on any map combinations, though, so you can't (say) go from Southport to Oxenholme using that route.

    All of the mapped routes via Ormskirk now stay on the same line from Preston to Kirkdale, though.
     
    Last edited: 31 Jan 2019
  8. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Some more changes were published this afternoon.

    Changes from 190123 (245) to 190130 (246).

    Station Association changes:
    Alsager (ASG) is no longer associated with Stockport (SPT).
    Alsager (ASG) is now associated with Cheadle Hulme (CHU).
    This change could have all sorts of effects on journeys to and from Alsager.
    Two it does have are:
    There's no longer a valid route from Northwich to Alsager via Stockport (as there's no NFM64 Stockport-Alsager fare).
    There's now a valid route from Knutsford to Alsager via Chester (as there's now no common routeing point).

    Easement changes:

    Changed:

    700839 (Map) During engineering diversions from 17 February to 08 March 2019, this temporary map easement will create permitted routes between London Paddington and Penzance via Castle Cary, Yeovil Junction and Honiton. But only for For tickets priced on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00411) AP SLOUGH, (00820) GREAT WESTERN ONLY (00842) VIA TAUNTON and (00840) VIA HONITON. It will operate in both directions
    This now covers advance tickets.
     
  9. JB_B

    JB_B Member

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    Is that route not also mapped on CP+XP - or have I missed something? Liverpool passes fare check as an origin routeing point for Southport-Oxenholme so could Southport-Liverpool-Kirkdale-Ormskirk-Preston-Oxenholme be doable?
     
  10. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I agree; Southport to Ormskirk changing at Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool Central, Ormskirk & Preston is traceable on maps CP+XP
     
  11. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Oh, sweet summer child RDG... Do they seriously think that encompasses all possible tickets that someone might want to use? There's no good reason to be restricting this map easement to this limited number of routes - for Pete's sake, it's a temporary map easement for a couple of days, not a permanent easement!
     
  12. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Sorry, I'm not sure what I was thinking of there. Of course it's on CP+XP, and Southport-Oxenholme is valid that way.
     
  13. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    A temporary easement was added to the routeing guide this afternoon:
    Changes from 190130 (246) to 190206 (247).

    Easement changes:

    Added:

    700842 (Fare route) Due to engineering work diversions on Sundays in February and March 2019, tickets for journeys priced on route (00637) VIA SOUTHAMPTON may travel via Eastleigh. This fare route easement applies in both directions.

    This enables someone travelling from Portsmouth to Salisbury (where all the tickets are "via Southampton" ones) to avoid the rail replacement buses. It doesn't help so much with London-Weymouth journeys, but there are other tickets for those.

    Note also that this doesn't affect the "Honiton Southampton" or "Westbury Southampton" routes some tickets to Devon use.
     
  14. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Two more easements were published yesterday:
    Changes from 190206 (247) to 190212 (248).

    Easement changes:

    Added:

    700843 (Fare route) During engineering diversions 17 February to 08 March 2019, tickets routed (00842) VIA TAUNTON and (00840) VIA HONITON may travel via Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary. this easement applies in both directions
    This is for the same engineering work as easement 700839. As this is a fare route easement rather than a map one, I'd expect it to have different effects on retail web sites.

    700844 (Routeing Point) Journeys from Yarm to Darlington and North Road are not valid via Northallerton. This negative routeing point easement applies in both directions.
    The NFM64 fares mean that tickets from Yarm to stations on the Bishop Auckland line beyond North Road were already only valid via Middlesbrough Group.
     
  15. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    The following easement changes were published on Thursday.
    Changes from 190212 (248) to 190214 (249).

    Easement changes:

    Added:
    700845 (Fare route) During engineering diversions 17 February to 08 March 2019, tickets routed (00840) VIA HONITON may travel via Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary. This fare route easement applies in both directions

    Changed:
    700843 (Fare route) During engineering diversions 17 February to 08 March 2019, tickets routed (00842) VIA TAUNTON and (00840) VIA HONITON may travel via Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary. this easement applies in both directions
    No effect.
     
  16. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    Have these been changed again? Looking at tickets for doing the diversions in the next week and the Easements document available online, published on Wednesday 20th Feb, lists the above two as:
    Fare route 700843 During engineering diversions 17 February to 08 March 2019, tickets routed (00842)VIA TAUNTON may travel via Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary. This easement applies inboth directions
    Fare route 700845 During engineering works on Sundays 17 March 2019, 14 and 21 April 2019, CrossCountry services will be diverted between Reading and Southampton via Wokingham,Guildford and Havant. This map easement will apply in both directions


    For various reasons, I am a little concerned about 700845 in the published guide!
     
  17. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Yes, sorry. I got a bit distracted by the map changes.

    The old 700845 or the new one?
     
  18. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    The following changes were published on Wednesday:
    Changes from 190214 (249) to 190220 (250).

    Permitted Route changes:
    Bedford Midland (BDM) to Worcester Group (G35) gain MM+BP+CB lose MM+BP+CE
    Smethwick Group (G63) to Worcester Group (G35) gain HB lose CE
    Rugby (RUG) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BI+CB lose BI+CE
    Tyseley (TYS) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BI+CB lose BI+CE
    No effect.

    Bletchley (BLY) to Hereford (HFD) gain EB+CB lose EB+HB TV+CE
    Hereford (HFD) to Milton Keynes Central (MKC) lose CE+TV
    Hereford (HFD) to Willesden Junction (WIJ) lose CE+TV
    These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
    via Bedworth; or
    via Tamworth.

    Bletchley (BLY) to Worcester Group (G35) gain EB+CB lose TV+BP+CE TV+CE
    Milton Keynes Central (MKC) to Worcester Group (G35) gain EB+CB lose TV+BP+CE TV+CE
    Watford Junction (WFJ) to Worcester Group (G35) gain EB+CB lose TV+BP+CE TV+CE
    Willesden Junction (WIJ) to Worcester Group (G35) gain EB+CB lose TV+BP+CE TV+CE
    These journeys no longer have mapped routes:
    via Bedworth; or
    via Tamworth.
    They now have mapped routes via Birmingham International which don't go through London.

    Chinley (CLY) to Worcester Group (G35) gain CE+CB DW+BM+CB lose CE MS+CM+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes via Stalybridge.
    It now has mapped routes:
    via Rugeley; and
    via Warrington.

    Craven Arms (CRV) to Sleaford (SLR) gain AW+EM lose CA+CE+DL MC+EM
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Stafford;
    via Wilmslow; or
    via Worcester.

    Grantham (GRA) to Worcester Group (G35) gain AN+DG+CB lose BG+CE DL+CE ER+CN+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Lincoln;
    via Loughborough; or
    via Peterborough.

    This just leaves routes via Nottingham, Derby and Tamworth.

    Guide Bridge (GUI) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BM+CB lose CM+CE MR+CM+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Stalybridge; or
    via Warrington.
    It now has mapped routes via Rugeley.

    Halifax Group (G39) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BM+CB DH+BH+CB DP+ER+BB+CB GU+MB+BM+CB lose GM+CM+CE MS+CM+CE SY+CE WK+CE WY+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Ashton-under-Lyne;
    via Chinley;
    via Newton-le-Willows;
    via Nottingham;
    via both Barnsley and Swinton;
    via both Todmorden and Warrington; or
    ones via Swinton which don't go through Doncaster.
    It now has mapped routes:
    via Leicester;
    via Rugeley;
    via the line between Doncaster and Pontefract;
    via Bradford and Huddersfield;
    via Mirfield and Streethouse;
    via Mirfield and Warrington;
    via Mirfield, Leeds and Fitzwilliam;
    ones via Mirfield and Leeds which avoid Swinton; and
    ones via Church Fenton and Doncaster which avoid Barnsley.

    Hazel Grove (HAZ) to Worcester Group (G35) gain CM+BM+CB lose CM+CE
    This journey now has mapped routes via Rugeley.

    Huddersfield Group (G40) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BH+CB DP+ER+BB+CB TP+BM+CB XL+CB lose GM+CM+CE SY+CE WK+CE WY+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Nottingham;
    via Warrington;
    via Penistone and Wakefield;
    via Swinton and Barnsley; or
    ones via Leeds and Swinton but not Doncaster;
    It now has mapped routes:
    via Bradford;
    via Leiester;
    via Rugeley;
    via the line between Doncaster and Pontefract; and
    ones via Moorthorpe and Doncaster which don't go through Barnsley.

    Lichfield Trent Valley (LTV) to Worcester Group (G35) gain DL+HB lose CE WM
    Tamworth Low Level (TAM) to Worcester Group (G35) gain DL+HB lose CE WM
    These journeys no longer have mapped routes via Wolverhampton.

    Lincoln Central (LCN) to Worcester Group (G35) gain DG+CB lose BG+CE DG+CE SH+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Nuneaton; or
    via Sheffield.

    Loughborough (LBO) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BH+CB lose BG+CE CN+CE EM+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Atherstone;
    via Melton Mowbray;
    via Nottingham; or
    via both Leicester and Tamworth.

    Newark Group (G47) to Worcester Group (G35) gain DG+CB lose BG+CE DG+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Doncaster; or
    via Leicester.

    Northampton (NMP) to Worcester Group (G35) gain TL+BI+CB lose TV+CE WM
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Tamworth;
    via Wolverhampton; or
    via both Coventry and Coleshill Parkway.
    It now has mapped routes which don't go through London but go:
    via Birmingham International and Bromsgrove;
    via Nuneaton and Birmingham International; and
    via Wolverton and Bromsgrove.

    Nottingham Group (G43) to Retford (RET) gain AS+ED lose NB+SH
    This journey no longer has mapped routes via Sheffield.
    It now has mapped routes via Grantham.

    Retford (RET) to Worcester Group (G35) gain ED+AS+DG+CB NG+TL+CB SH+BB+CB lose SH+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes via Doncaster.
    It now has mapped routes via Nottingham.

    Rugeley Trent Valley (RGL) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BP+CB TV+CB lose CN+CE LM+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes:
    via Nuneaton; or
    via Wolverhampton.

    Sleaford (SLR) to Worcester Group (G35) gain BG+CB DL+CB lose BG+CE DL+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes via Lincoln.

    Stalybridge (SYB) to Worcester Group (G35) gain GM+BM+CB lose CM+CE GM+CM+CE MR+CM+CE
    This journey no longer has mapped routes via Wigan.
    It now has mapped routes via Rugeley.

    CE: Gain Cheltenham Spa to/from Worcester Group
    This map is used in 208 routes.
    This map already permitted travel from Cheltenham to Worcester via Bromsgrove (so long as easement 700189 doesn't affect your ticket), but this is usually a faster route.

    Easement changes:

    Changed:
    700839 (Map) During engineering diversions from 17 February to 08 March 2019, this temporary map easement will create permitted routes between London Paddington and Penzance via Castle Cary, Yeovil Junction and Honiton. For tickets priced on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00411) AP SLOUGH, (00820) GREAT WESTERN ONLY (00842) VIA TAUNTON and (00840) VIA HONITON. It will operate in both directions

    Deleted:
    700845 (Fare route) During engineering diversions 17 February to 08 March 2019, tickets routed (00840) VIA HONITON may travel via Yeovil Pen Mill and Castle Cary. This fare route easement applies in both directions
    This removes the benefit of these easements from "via Honiton" tickets. This isn't to say that someone travelling via Honiton with a "via Honiton" ticket will experience any difficulties, of course.

    Aded:
    700845 (Map) During engineering works on Sundays 17 March 2019, 14 and 21 April 2019, Cross Country services will be diverted between Reading and Southampton via Wokingham, Guildford and Havant. This map easement will apply in both directions.
    Basingstoke is scheduled to have an hourly train to Reading, and buses everywhere else. I suspect the trains may get quite cosy.

    And yes, they have reused the number 700845 here.
     
  19. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    That's a huge range of changes, many of which have real impact on available (legitimate) itineraries. I'm definitely interested in making some enquiries as to the permission they inevitably didn't have to make those changes.
     
  20. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    It seems that it looks like Arriva Crosscountry have been "fixing" things again, if I have interpreted the changes correctly.

    Regarding routes from east of Nottingham towards Birmingham, it has been a long standing case going back to British Rail and the former Regional Railways Central sector that you could go either via Derby and Tamworth, or via Leicester and Nuneaton. Direct trains between Birmingham and Nottingham (and points east) used to run both routes.
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Some of them make a bit of sense. From MK to Worcester/Hereford the most obvious non London route is via Brum, and it sounds like, bizarrely, these routes gave only just been added, despite being what 99% of people were already doing.
     
  22. JB_B

    JB_B Member

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    It is a bit surprising that Milton Keynes / Bletchley to Worcester / Hereford weren't already mapped via Birmingham International.

    However, I'm fairly sure that these routes were already valid by the shortest route +3mile rule.
     
  23. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    The removal of the old one. It has since been pointed out that the direct train rule applies, anyway, for the ticket I was considering, so should be ok :)
     
  24. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    My impression is that the main goal for most of these was to remove sequences where a journey from Worcester group started with CE. I don't think the changes to the CE map motivated this in themselves, as a Worcester-Cheltenham-Bromsgrove journey would involve passing through Ashchurch twice.

    Willesden/Watford/Bletchley/Milton Keynes-Worcester only had TV+CE for non-London routes (there's also TV+BP+CE, but that's identical). None of those maps include Coventry-Birmingham.

    No person would question you going that way, but a web site could do it your journey isn't covered by the site's version of the shortest route rule.
     
  25. kieron

    kieron Established Member

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    Some easements were added and removed this afternoon.

    Changes from 190220 (250) to 190301 (251).

    Easement changes:

    Removed:
    700190 (Circuitous Route) Customers in possession of ticket types POP & PAP (Oyster PAYG) may not travel via Epsom.
    Epsom has Oyster readers now, so this easement was no longer in line with TfL's policies. I don't know how much effect anything in the routeing guide had on Oyster fares, though.

    700830 (Map) The route between Three Bridges and Brighton will be closed for engineering works from 16 February 2019 to 24 February 2019. This map easement will provide alternative routeings, in both directions, via Horsham and Littlehampton.

    700835 (Fare route) During engineering in the Westbury area on Sunday 13 January 2019 and on the 03, 06 and 07 February 2019. Tickets priced on fare route (00136) VIA MELKSHAM, will be valid for travel via Bristol Temple Meads. This fare route easement applies in both directions

    700837 (Map) On 2nd Feb 2019, Cross Country trains are diverting between Basingstoke and Southampton via Salisbury and Romsey. This map easement will apply in both directions.
    Temporary easements for dates which have passed.

    Added:

    700846 (Circuitous Route) Journeys from Colne, Nelson, Brierfield, Burnley Central, Burnley Barracks, Rose Grove, Hapton, Huncoat and Burnley Manchester Road to Adlington (Lancs), Chorley and Buckshaw Parkway may not go via Manchester Victoria or Salford Crescent. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions
    There are quite a few stations named here, so I'll just look at a Burnley Manchester Road-Chorley ticket.

    The fastest journey tends to be one of Burnley-Blackburn-Preston-Chorley, Burnley-Blackburn-Bolton-Chorley or Burnley-Manchester-Bolton-Chorley, depending on the departure time.

    The shortest route is via Preston.

    Bolton and Preston pass the fare check for Chorley.

    Manchester Group passes the fare check for Burnley Manchester Road. This means Manchester Victoria in this case.

    This easement prohibits journeys via Manchester Victoria.

    Journeys via Blackburn and Bolton are prohibited by the fact that Accrington isn't a suitable routeing point for Burnley.

    In summary, this easement effectively turns this "any permitted" ticket into a "via Preston" one.

    700847 (Fare route) Tickets to London Terminals priced on routes (00130) PLUS HS1 and (00324) Plus HS1 NOT UND(erground) via Ebbsfleet International are valid via London St Pancras International and Farringdon by National Rail services to City Thameslink, London Bridge, London Blackfriars, London Cannon Street, London Waterloo East and London Charing Cross. This fare route easement applies in both directions.
    If I assume that they mean (00131) "plus high speed" here, and not (00130) "not valid on HS1", then there was already a paragraph to this effect on nationalrail.co.uk. This version names a few more stations, though.
     
  26. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    I'm guessing, but it might have had the effect of preventing Oyster fares appearing on NRE when looking at journeys via Epsom. Certainly it will have had no effect on Oyster itself, but may have reduced the need to issue PFs at Epsom.
     
  27. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    This one looks like some sort of experimental hack to me. It doesn't make sense as a fare route easement, because the journey via St Pancras would already be complying with the "PLUS HIGH SPEED" route anyway - so journey planners shouldn't even be checking fare route easements for a journey like this. It looks more like an attempt to try and override the rule for fares groups that you can't exit and re-enter (which you would be doing at Farringdon and City Thameslink respectively). But this is outwith the scope of the routeing guide; it doesn't have a concept of fares groups.

    I've a recollection that this has been discussed on the forum several times before, but it seems to me if they want to make this work properly the way to do it is to define a new fares group, neither LONDON TERMINALS nor LONDON THAMESLNK but containing the St Pancras and all the Thameslink core stations, as well as the traditional southern terminals which tickets from Kent can be used to. It could be called LONDON SOUTHEAST or similar. And then redefine those PLUS HIGH SPEED fares as being to that new fares group rather than to LONDON TERMINALS.
     
  28. sheff1

    sheff1 Established Member

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    No doubt I have missed something obvious, but why isn't Accrington a suitable routeing point ?
     
  29. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    As a blind guess, failing the fares-check rule?
     
  30. alistairlees

    alistairlees Member

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    correct
     

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