• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

National Routeing Guide update

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some more changes were published on Friday.
Changes from 06 Aug 2020 (313) to 07 Aug 2020 (314).

Permitted Route changes:

Aberdeen (ABD) to Leicester (LEI) gain EC+BP IP+FK+EC+BP
Dingwall (DIN) to Leicester (LEI) gain KI+EC+BP
Dundee (DEE) to Leicester (LEI) gain EC+BP IP+FK+EC+BP
Inverness (INV) to Leicester (LEI) gain KI+EC+BP
Leicester (LEI) to Perth (PTH) gain BP+EC+KI
These all now have mapped routes via Peterborough.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
I suspect it may cause certain booking engines to override any rules associated with what would normally be a "local journey" for Routeing Guide purposes (and which therefore couldn't pass through any other Routeing Points, i.e. York, on the way to the common Routeing Point, Leeds). In other words it makes sure that different booking engines which implement the rule in different ways apply this easement as intended, without having to be completely rewritten.
It's quite possible. The only web site I know I tried before and after the second change was nre.co.uk (which was unaffected), so I don't know what effect the change had.

Some more changes were made to the easements in the routeing guide this afternoon.
Changes from 07 Aug 2020 (314) to 19 Aug 2020 (315).

Easement changes:

Added:
700922 (Local) Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Sole Street may travel via Rochester. This local easement applies in both directions.

700923 (Local) Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Farningham Road, Swanley or St Mary Cray may travel via Bromley South. This local easement applies in both directions.

700924 (Doubleback) Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Eynsford, Shoreham (Kent), Otford and Bat & Ball may travel via Bromley South. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.
The timetable is different after 7 September, and the daytime trains which call at Longfield and Meopham won't stop at any other station between Bromley South and Rochester otherwise.

There isn't an easement for Bickley, or for stations south of Otford, but it may not need a Local easement to permit those.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

Easement 700351 (CROSSCOUNTRY)
Customers travelling via Yate to Bromsgrove in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may double back via Birmingham New Street. This easement applies in both directions.
+ve double back easement (18/02/2013-)
contain BMV BRV BTG FWY KNN LOB NFD SLY UNI, double back at BHM, go from YAE, go to BMV & go via BHM with route ANY PERMITTED (00000)
contain BMV BRV BTG FWY KNN LOB NFD SLY UNI, double back at BHM, go to BMV & go via BHM YAE with route ANY PERMITTED (00000)
contain BMV BRV BTG FWY KNN LOB NFD SLY UNI, double back at BHM, go from BMV, go to YAE & go via BHM with route ANY PERMITTED (00000)
contain BMV BRV BTG FWY KNN LOB NFD SLY UNI, double back at BHM, go from BMV & go via BHM YAE with route ANY PERMITTED (00000)


Stations:
Barnt Green (BTG)
Birmingham New Street (BHM)
Bournville (BRV)
Bromsgrove (BMV)
Five Ways (FWY)
King's Norton (KNN)
Longbridge (LOB)
Northfield (NFD)
Selly Oak (SLY)
University (UNI)
Yate (YAE)​
I can see that nre.co.uk doesn't find any journeys between Bristol and Bromsgrove which make use of this easement, so perhaps adding Five Ways to the station list will change this.
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,439
Location
Yorkshire
I can see that nre.co.uk doesn't find any journeys between Bristol and Bromsgrove which make use of this easement, so perhaps adding Five Ways to the station list will change this.
It does find some; not all Birmingham <> Bristol trains go via Five Ways ;)
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Having checked again, it hasn't improved nre.co.uk's ability to find journeys. There must be something else going on.

The journey I was looking at was Bristol Temple Meads-Bromsgrove on 10/9 from 9am*. The only results it finds tickets for are the ones via Worcester, which don't go through Birmingham at all.

There's a map combination for Bristol-Bromsgrove (PB) which includes the full route, and the only negative easement which mentions Bromsgrove only covers journeys from/to stations between Hereford and Worcester.

There are web sites (such as gwr.com) which can find tickets, but I don't know what each is doing differently.

With regard to the latest set of easements, nre.co.uk doesn't consider Longfield-Rochester-Sole Street to be valid on a single ticket, or Longfeld-Bromley South-Bat & Ball/Eynsford/Farningham/Otford/Swanley. I haven't checked Meopham.

The text of each easement is clear enough, but not all of the travellers who would benefit from these easements will know about them, and I don't know about the rail staff.

* You may need to delete any nationalrail.co.uk cookies you have for this link to open correctly.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,439
Location
Yorkshire
Having checked again, it hasn't improved nre.co.uk's ability to find journeys. There must be something else going on.

The journey I was looking at was Bristol Temple Meads-Bromsgrove on 10/9 from 9am*. The only results it finds tickets for are the ones via Worcester, which don't go through Birmingham at all.

There's a map combination for Bristol-Bromsgrove (PB) which includes the full route, and the only negative easement which mentions Bromsgrove only covers journeys from/to stations between Hereford and Worcester.

There are web sites (such as gwr.com) which can find tickets, but I don't know what each is doing differently.
Looking at the date you specified, NRE says "No fares available" for journeys via BHM; this is because the XC trains are not yet open for reservations and are reservations compulsory (in the data, at least).

Fares are available for 02/09 (see attachment)

So the fix has worked.

The text of each easement is clear enough, but not all of the travellers who would benefit from these easements will know about them, and I don't know about the rail staff.

These easements are effectively for the benefit of booking engines.

Passengers will simply search for the journey, see that fares are available, and purchase accordingly.

I suspect staff are instructed to accept "Any Permitted" tickets for reasonable doublebacks via BHM regardless of the electronic data or human readable easement text.

Incidentally, the premium to travel via BHM is rather high: the lowest priced return fare to avoid BHM is a mere £14.80, yet it's £56.80 for Any Permitted.
 

Attachments

  • bri-bmv.jpg
    bri-bmv.jpg
    108.9 KB · Views: 36

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some more changes were made to the routeing guide this afternoon.
Changes from 19 Aug 2020 (315) to 27 Aug 2020 (316).

Easement changes:

Added:

700925 (Routeing Point) Customer travelling from Benfleet to Elephant Castle and beyond may travel via London Blackfriars. This destination routeing point easement will counteract NFM64 fares checking, and operates in both directions.
As this is a routeing point easement, "beyond" only refers to Loughborough Junction here.

In particular, someone travelling from Benfleet to Queens Road Peckham will still need to change at Peckham Rye for the route to be valid with a Benfleet-Queens Road Peckham ticket.

Location changes:

Gain: nlc=0996 crs=RGP uic=70 county=00 (22/07/2020-)
Reading Green Park has been added to one of the database tables. It should appear in others before the station opens.

Incidentally, the premium to travel via BHM is rather high: the lowest priced return fare to avoid BHM is a mere £14.80, yet it's £56.80 for Any Permitted.
Sorry, I wasn't thinking of how little opportunity Crosscountry give people to buy tickets in advance.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some changes were made to the routeing guide yesterday.
Changes from 27 Aug 2020 (316) to 02 Sep 2020 (317).

Station Association changes:

Evesham (EVE) is now associated with Bromsgrove (BMV).
Honeybourne (HYB) is now associated with Bromsgrove (BMV).
Moreton-In-Marsh (MIM) is now associated with Bromsgrove (BMV).
Pershore (PSH) is now associated with Bromsgrove (BMV).
This change means that every station between Worcester and Oxford is associated with Bromsgrove, except for the ones in Oxfordshire.

There are, as far as I can tell, no trains which stop both at Worcestershire Parkway and Bromsgrove. This means that the shortest route between Bromsgrove and Evesham (for example) remains via Worcester Shrub Hill.

Easement changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):
700074 (Doubleback) Customers travelling to Cheadle Hulme may double back when travelling between Cheadle Hulme and Stockport. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.
This has been restricted to journeys to or from Cheadle Hulme, so that a journey from (say) Handforth to Macclesfield using a through ticket takes about twice as long as it did.

Easement 700923 (LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWY)
Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Farningham Road, Swanley or St Mary Cray may travel via Bromley South. This local easement applies in both directions.
+ve local easement (19/08/2020-12/12/2020)
contain SAY, go via BKL BMS, go from LGF MEP & go to FNR SAY SMY
contain SAY, go via BKL BMS, go from FNR SAY SMY & go to LGF MEP

Stations:
Bickley (BKL)
Bromley South (BMS)
Farningham Road (FNR)
Longfield (LGF)
Meopham (MEP)
St.Mary Cray (SMY)
Swanley (SAY)
I'm not sure what effect this change has, but I just put "Longfield to Farningham Road via Bromley South" into nre.co.uk and southeasternrailway.co.uk, and neither found any valid routes.

Station link changes:

Aberdare (ABA)-Cwmbach (CMH) has changed from 0.75 to 1.53.
Cwmbach (CMH)-Fernhill (FER) from 0.50 to 1.35.
Aberdeen (ABD)-Portlethen (PLN) from 9.89 to 8.20.
Portlethen (PLN)-Stonehaven (STN) from 6.25 to 7.95.
Acklington (ACK)-Widdrington (WDD) from 4.70 to 5.29.
Alfreton (ALF)-Chesterfield (CHD) from 10.61 to 10.16.
Alloa (ALO)-Stirling (STG) from 6.77 to 6.80.
Bridge Of Allan (BEA)-Stirling (STG) from 3.34 to 2.82.
Bridge Of Allan (BEA)-Dunblane (DBL) from 2.60 to 2.11.
Dunblane (DBL)-Gleneagles (GLE) from 11.39 to 12.36.
Arbroath (ARB)-Montrose (MTS) from 13.61 to 14.12.
Ardwick (ADK)-Manchester Piccadilly (MAN) from 0.64 to 0.89.
Ashburys (ABY)-Manchester Victoria (MCV) from 3.55 to 3.86.
Ashchurch (ASC)-Worcestershire Parkway (WOP) from 11.36 to 11.29.
Bromsgrove (BMV)-Worcestershire Parkway (WOP) from 12.71 to 12.60.
Beauly (BEL)-Inverness (INV) from 10.00 to 10.10.
Beauly (BEL)-Muir Of Ord (MOO) from 2.90 to 2.91.
Blackrod (BLK)-Horwich Parkway (HWI) from 1.58 to 1.55.
Horwich Parkway (HWI)-Lostock Parkway (LOT) from 2.00 to 1.97.
Bramley (West Yorkshire) (BLE)-Leeds (LDS) from 3.50 to 4.02.
Bramley (West Yorkshire) (BLE)-New Pudsey (NPD) from 2.38 to 1.77.
British Steel Redcar (RBS)-South Bank (SBK) from 3.63 to 3.20.
Middlesbrough (MBR)-South Bank (SBK) from 2.88 to 2.50.
Cambridge (CBG)-Cambridge North (CMB) from 3.00 to 2.29.
Cambridge North (CMB)-Waterbeach (WBC) from 2.25 to 3.07.
Camelon (CMO)-Larbert (LBT) from 1.93 to 1.45.
Chandlers Ford (CFR)-Eastleigh (ESL) from 1.20 to 2.00.
Chandlers Ford (CFR)-Romsey (ROM) from 5.00 to 5.16.
Eastleigh (ESL)-Hedge End (HDE) from 4.49 to 3.51.
Chester (CTR)-Mouldsworth (MLD) from 6.45 to 7.25.
Chislehurst (CIT)-St.Mary Cray (SMY) from 2.39 to 2.24.
Dalmeny (DAM)-Edinburgh Gateway (EGY) from 3.94 to 4.03.
Dundee (DEE)-Invergowrie (ING) from 3.93 to 3.39.
Ebbsfleet International (EBD)-Gravesend (GRV) from 1.96 to 2.06.
Evesham (EVE)-Pershore (PSH) from 4.94 to 5.96.
Pershore (PSH)-Worcestershire Parkway (WOP) from 4.88 to 4.16.
Worcestershire Parkway (WOP)-Worcester Shrub Hill (WOS) from 4.00 to 3.71.
Finsbury Park (FPK)-London St.Pancras (STP) from 2.64 to 2.78.
Frodsham (FRD)-Runcorn East (RUE) from 2.26 to 3.23.
Runcorn East (RUE)-Warrington Bank Quay (WBQ) from 5.95 to 4.98.
Gartcosh (GRH)-Greenfaulds (GRL) from 5.21 to 5.16.
Heald Green (HDG)-Manchester Airport (MIA) from 2.25 to 1.94.
Manchester Airport (MIA)-Styal (SYA) from 1.70 to 2.24.
Hitchin (HIT)-Letchworth (LET) from 2.70 to 3.01.
Lea Bridge (LEB)-Stratford (SRA) from 3.39 to 2.45.
March (MCH)-Whittlesea (WLE) from 7.81 to 8.80.
Peterborough (PBO)-Whittlesea (WLE) from 7.09 to 6.12.
Meridian Water (MRW)-Northumberland Park (NUM) from 1.10 to 0.55.
Meridian Water (MRW)-Ponders End (PON) from 1.87 to 2.42.
Mills Hill (MIH)-Moston (MSO) from 2.35 to 1.92.
Motherwell (MTH)-Whifflet (WFF) from 4.05 to 4.62.
Newton-Le-Willows (NLW)-Patricroft (PAT) from 10.35 to 10.82.
Newton-Le-Willows (NLW)-Wigan North Western (WGN) from 6.58 to 7.08.
Patricroft (PAT)-Wigan North Western (WGN) from 16.11 to 16.38.
Stockton (STK)-Thornaby (TBY) from 1.71 to 2.16.
Streatham (STE)-Tooting (TOO) from 1.48 to 1.92.
These distance (in miles) are not mentioned in the routeing guide, but I believe they're used by web sites to calculating the shortest route between two stations. I haven't tried to find out if any of these changes make a difference to the routes they show. Some changes are over a mile, so it's certainly possible.
 

JB_B

Established Member
Joined
27 Dec 2013
Messages
1,413
...
Station link changes:
...​
These distance (in miles) are not mentioned in the routeing guide, but I believe they're used by web sites to calculating the shortest route between two stations. I haven't tried to find out if any of these changes make a difference to the routes they show. Some changes are over a mile, so it's certainly possible.​


I think one example could be Botley - Hamble is now valid via Eastleigh ( as Hedge End is now nearly a mile closer to Eastleigh.)

It's 12.47m via Fareham and now 14.68 via Eastleigh (previously 15.66m). It's possible that some journey planners were already validating this given it was only just over the 3m limit.

I think these changes are generally improving the accuracy of the data. Prior to this change there were 67 stations pairs with an impossibly* low distance given - now there are 56.

(* I've counted pairs where the distance by rail given in the data is over .25 miles shorter than the straight line distance and so clearly impossible.)
 

philjo

Established Member
Joined
9 Jun 2009
Messages
2,884
I assume that the Hitchin to Letchworth amendment would be measuring the Distance for the route via the Hitchin Flyover. Though obviously that only applies to down services. Up services use the direct route.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some changes were made to the easements in the routeing guide yesterday.
Changes from 02 Sep 2020 (317) to 04 Sep 2020 (318).

Easement changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

Easement 700923 (LONDON SOUTH EASTERN RAILWY)
Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Farningham Road, Swanley or St Mary Cray may travel via Bromley South. This local easement applies in both directions.
+ve local easement (19/08/2020-12/12/2020)
contain SAY, go from LGF MEP, go to FNR SAY SMY & go via BKL BMS
contain SAY, go from FNR SAY SMY, go to LGF MEP & go via BKL BMS
contain BKL BMS, go from LGF MEP & go to FNR SAY SMY
contain BKL BMS, go from FNR SAY SMY & go to LGF MEP


Stations:
Bickley (BKL)
Bromley South (BMS)
Farningham Road (FNR)
Longfield (LGF)
Meopham (MEP)
St.Mary Cray (SMY)
Swanley (SAY)
This adds back the rule which was removed on Wednesday, and keeps the one which replaced it. Neither rule, from what I can see, allows nre.co.uk or southeasternrailway.co.uk to show a journey from Longfield to Farningham Road via Bromley South as being valid with a through ticket.

Easement 700074 (NORTHERN)
Customers travelling to Cheadle Hulme may double back between Cheadle Hulme and Stockport. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.
Customers may double back from Stockport when travelling to or through Cheadle Hulme. This doubleback easement, will not override local journey rules. It will apply in both directions.
+ve double back easement (19/11/2010-)
contain CHU, double back at SPT & go from CHU
contain CHU, double back at SPT & go to CHU via SPT

Stations:
Cheadle Hulme (CHU)
Stockport (SPT)
The data which is provided for web sites is the same as it was before Wednesday, but the text now refers to "local journey rules". There are a couple of references to "local journeys" in the routeing guide, but the term isn't defined there.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some easements were changed in the routeing guide yesterday (Wednesday).
Changes from 04 Sep 2020 (318) to 22 Sep 2020 (319).

Easement changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):
700074 (Doubleback) Customers may double back from Stockport when travelling to or through Cheadle Hulme. This doubleback easement, will not override local journey rules on shortest route from/to the Cheadle Hulme routeing point. It will apply in both directions.
The text of this easement has changed again. The data used for it has not changed.

700914 (Map) During engineering works between Exeter and Taunton from 28 September to 02 October 2020, tickets priced on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00203) GWR SLEEPER & GWR, (00411) AP SLOUGH, (00700) NOT VIA LONDON, (00810) NOT VIA READING, (00820) GW ONLY and (00842) VIA TAUNTON will be valid on Great Western Trains services via Honiton, Yeovil and Castle Cary. This map easement will apply in both directions
This easement has been changed to apply to trains using a number of additional routes.

Diverted trains are also accepted on nre.co.uk with some ticket routes which aren't in the above list, such as "Guildford Reading" (sold for Exeter-Gatwick journeys, among others). This may be because it checks the section west of Reading separately.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some changes were made to the easements in the routeing guide this afternoon.
Changes from 22 Sep 2020 (319) to 13 Nov 2020 (320).
Easement changes:
Removed:
700912 (Map) Customers travelling to Edinburgh and beyond, whose normal route is via Newcastle and Berwick upon Tweed, may travel via Carlisle during engineering works on Saturdays between 19 September and 31 October 2020 and Sundays 20 September - 11 October 2020. This map easement applies in both directions
700914 (Map) During engineering works between Exeter and Taunton from 28 September to 02 October 2020, tickets priced on (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00203) GWR SLEEPER & GWR, (00411) AP SLOUGH, (00700) NOT VIA LONDON, (00810) NOT VIA READING, (00820) GW ONLY and (00842) VIA TAUNTON will be valid on Great Western Trains services via Honiton, Yeovil and Castle Cary. This map easement will apply in both directions
700915 (Fare route) During engineering works between Exeter and Taunton from 28 September to 02 October 2020, tickets priced on (00842) VIA TAUNTON will be valid on Great Western Trains services via Honiton, Yeovil and Castle Cary. This fare route easement will apply in both directions
700917 (Local) Due to temporary timetable changes, until midnight 13 September 2020, customers travelling from Church Fenton or Ulleskelf to Leeds on tickets priced (00000) ANY PERMITTED may travel via York or via Selby. This Local easement applies in both directions
700918 (Routeing Point) Due to temporary timetable changes until 13 September 2020, customers travel from Crewe to Manchester Airport may travel via Manchester Piccadilly. This Routeing Point easement applies in both directions
700919 (Routeing Point) Due to temporary timetable changes, until midnight 13 September 2020, customers travelling from Church Fenton and Ulleskelf to Leeds on tickets priced (00000) ANY PERMITTED may travel via York or via Selby. This Routeing Point easement applies in both directions
All temporary easements for which the dates have passed.

Added:
700926 (Local) Customers travelling from Craigendoran to Garelochhead, Arrochar & Tarbet, Ardlui, Crianlarich or beyond Crianlarich, may travel via Dumbarton Central. This local easement applies in both directions.
700927 (Doubleback) Customers travelling from Craigendoran to Garelochhead or beyond may travel via Dumbarton Central. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.
These two easements let you use the shortest route between Craigendoran and stations on the West Highland Line beyond Helensburgh Upper. Timetable 227 is the only one which lists distances for Helensburgh Upper, or anywhere on the line further north, and Dumbarton Central is the next station it shows.

This change should help web sites and the like, though.

--- The following post was made on 16/11/2020. ---

Some more changes to the easement list were published this afternoon.
Changes from 13 Nov 2020 (320) to 16 Nov 2020 (321).
Easement changes:
Added:
700928 (Map) During engineering works, on the 21 and 22 November 2020, customers travelling to London Liverpool Street from or via Ipswich, may use rail replacement bus services from Ipswich to Stansted Airport. Then onward by train via Hackney Downs to London Liverpool Street. This temporary map easement will apply in both directions.
No passenger trains are scheduled to run between Ipswich and Marks Tey on 21/11 (although buses are running between the two stations), or between Ipswich and London on 22/11 (with buses between Ipswich and Stansted Airport), so this easement is only intended to affect travel on 22/11.

As it happens, catching a train via Cambridge isn't much slower than the bus via Stansted then. This easement does not permit a through ticket to be used on that route. The data for this easement also lets you travel by train via Cambridge and Cheshunt (but not Ely or Stevenage).
700929 (Map) During engineering works, on the 27 - 28 December 2020 and the 01 - 03 January 2021 customers travelling to London Liverpool Street from or via Ipswich, may use rail replacement bus services from Ipswich to Stansted Airport. Then onward by train via Hackney Downs to London Liverpool Street. This temporary map easement will apply in both directions.
This is identical to 700928, except with different dates. The revised schedule is not available for after Christmas yet, but the description of the engineering works suggests that the journey options will be similar to 21-22 November.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):
700926 (Local) Customers travelling from Craigendoran to Garelochhead, Arrochar & Tarbet, Ardlui, Crianlarich or beyond Crianlarich, may travel via Dalreoch and Dumbarton Central. This local easement applies in both directions.
Dalreoch has been added to the easement. It's a mandatory timing point, but it's part of the same routeing group as Dumbarton Central. The doubleback version of this easement has not changed.

As before, this easement does not permit anything which isn't already permitted for being the shortest route.
 
Last edited:

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,130
Location
Reading
700928 (Map) During engineering works, on the 21 and 22 November 2020, customers travelling to London Liverpool Street from or via Ipswich, may use rail replacement bus services from Ipswich to Stansted Airport. Then onward by train via Hackney Downs to London Liverpool Street. This temporary map easement will apply in both directions.No passenger trains are scheduled to run between Ipswich and Marks Tey on 21/11 (although buses are running between the two stations), or between Ipswich and London on 22/11 (with buses between Ipswich and Stansted Airport), so this easement is only intended to affect travel on 22/11.

As it happens, catching a train via Cambridge isn't much slower than the bus via Stansted then. This easement does not permit a through ticket to be used on that route.
Yes, although the wording of the easement doesn't appear to permit travel by rail via Cambridge, in practice the electronic implementation does as it allows completion of the mapped route via Cambridge between Cheshunt to London via Tottenham Hale and Hackney Downs on Map EA!

700926 (Local) Customers travelling from Craigendoran to Garelochhead, Arrochar & Tarbet, Ardlui, Crianlarich or beyond Crianlarich, may travel via Dalreoch and Dumbarton Central. This local easement applies in both directions.Dalreoch has been added to the easement. It's a mandatory timing point, but it's part of the same routeing group as Dumbarton Central. The doubleback version of this easement has not changed.

As before, this easement does not permit anything which isn't already permitted for being the shortest route.
Yes agreed, the doubleback is not really an issue because it's automatically allowed within the Dumbarton routeing group. The main issue here seems to be the mileage data used by the electronic routeing guide shows a direct link from Craigendoran to Helensburgh Central, which as far as I can see isn't possible in reality due to the platform layout at Craigendoran? So even discounting the doubleback mileage within Dumbarton group, it's still about 6 miles longer than the shortest route. Hence the need for a local easement.
 
Last edited:

paul1609

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2006
Messages
7,190
Location
Wittersham Kent
Yes agreed, the doubleback is not really an issue because it's automatically allowed within the Dumbarton routeing group. The main issue here seems to be the mileage data used by the electronic routeing guide shows a direct link from Craigendoran to Helensburgh Central, which as far as I can see isn't possible in reality due to the platform layout at Craigendoran? So even discounting the doubleback mileage within Dumbarton group, it's still about 6 miles longer than the shortest route. Hence the need for a local easement.
Craigendoran these days is a platform on the single electrified line to Helensburgh Central. Pre 1964 it also had an island platform on the West Highland Line (to Helensburgh Upper) but this was removed along with several other small stations when the West Highland stopping trains to Arrocher were withdrawn. Pre 1972 it also had an electrified platform on the adjacent pier for connections to the Clyde steamers.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Yes, although the wording of the easement doesn't appear to permit travel by rail via Cambridge, in practice the electronic implementation does as it allows completion of the mapped route via Cambridge between Cheshunt to London via Tottenham Hale and Hackney Downs on Map EA!
Sorry, I completely missed that. The easement data contains the map links you'd need for a Stansted-London journey, but you can, as you say, combine these with a map which is valid for Ipswich-London (i.e. EA) to give the route via Cambridge and Cheshunt. It doesn't permit travel via Stevenage, but that's not an attractive route this weekend.

Yes agreed, the doubleback is not really an issue because it's automatically allowed within the Dumbarton routeing group. The main issue here seems to be the mileage data used by the electronic routeing guide shows a direct link from Craigendoran to Helensburgh Central
Sort of. The troublesome link is between Cardross and Helensburgh Upper. Trains can use it, and one train a day does, but the timetable doesn't list a distance for it.

On the one hand, having a distance means you can calculate have far you've gone if you leave the train from Oban at Cardross. On the other, it means you can only use on the shortest route rule if you take the train which stops at Cardross.

Another easement was published on Wednesday.
Changes from 16 Nov 2020 (321) to 18 Nov 2020 (322).

Easement changes:

Added:

700930 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling from Craigendoran to destinations beyond Crianlarich, may travel via Dalreoch and Dumbarton Central. To overcome fares checking that is preventing electronic journey planners provide itineraires, this routing pont easement will apply in both directions.
This adds a routeing point easement for Craigendoran. As Craigendoran is associated with Crianlarich, the only fares to stations north of Craigendoran for which a fare check would be completed are ones to Fort William or beyond. From what I can tell, Dumbarton Group passes the fare check for a journey from any of these to Craigendoran.
 
Last edited:

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some changes to the routeing guide were published this afternoon.
Changes from 18 Nov 2020 (322) to 09 Dec 2020 (323).

Station Association changes:
Kintore (KTR) is now associated with Aberdeen (ABD) and Inverness (INV).

Station link changes:
Dyce (DYC) to Inverurie (INR) no longer has a distance of 10.85.
Dyce (DYC) to Kintore (KTR) now has a distance of 7.05.
Inverurie (INR) to Kintore (KTR) now has a distance of 3.80.

Non-NFM64 station changes:
Kintore (KTR) now uses NFM64 fares for Inverurie (INR) (04/12/2020-)
Kintore has now been added to a few of the lists which are needed to calculate valid routes from it.

It doesn't appear in the current National Rail Timetable (which the routeing guide directs you to use to calculate the shortest route between stations), and Network Rail have decided not to publish the December one for the time being.
Easement changes:

Removed:

700928 (Map) During engineering works, on the 21 and 22 November 2020, customers travelling to London Liverpool Street from or via Ipswich, may use rail replacement bus services from Ipswich to Stansted Airport. Then onward by train via Hackney Downs to London Liverpool Street. This temporary map easement will apply in both directions.
The dates for this easement have passed now.

Changed:

Easement 700929 (GREATER ANGLIA)
During engineering works, on the 27 - 28 December 2020 and the 01 - 03 January 2021 customers travelling to London Liverpool Street from or via Ipswich, may use rail replacement bus services from Ipswich to Stansted Airport. Then onward by train via Hackney Downs to London Liverpool Street. This temporary map easement will apply in both directions.
The text of this easement hasn't changed, but the data has been altered to prevent Ipswich-London tickets from being used via Cambridge. The new version hasn't been implemented on nre.co.uk yet, so I haven't tested what effect it has.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
An easement was added to the routeing guide this afternoon.
Changes from 09 Dec 2020 (323) to 04 Jan 2021 (324).

Easement changes:

Added:

700931 (Fare route) During engineering works that will close the railway route into London Marylebone on Sunday 10 January 2021. Tickets on fare route (00264) CHALFONT & LATIMER are valid for interchange at Amersham and onward travel by London Underground services via Baker Street.
The London Underground services aren't in the rail planners, so you can't get an itinerary for this route with any rail ticket.

I did think that tickets valid between Amersham (and beyond) and London were valid on the Metropolitan Line all of the time, though. The route code doesn't affect this, as both operators go through Chalfont & Latimer anyway.

Just to make things a bit more awkward for anyone travelling then, the Metropolitan Line is closed east of Baker Street on Sunday.
 

Ralph Ayres

Member
Joined
2 May 2012
Messages
200
Location
West London
An easement was added to the routeing guide this afternoon.
Changes from 09 Dec 2020 (323) to 04 Jan 2021 (324).
Easement changes:
Added:
700931 (Fare route) During engineering works that will close the railway route into London Marylebone on Sunday 10 January 2021. Tickets on fare route (00264) CHALFONT & LATIMER are valid for interchange at Amersham and onward travel by London Underground services via Baker Street.
The London Underground services aren't in the rail planners, so you can't get an itinerary for this route with any rail ticket.

I did think that tickets valid between Amersham (and beyond) and London were valid on the Metropolitan Line all of the time, though. The route code doesn't affect this, as both operators go through Chalfont & Latimer anyway.

Just to make things a bit more awkward for anyone travelling then, the Metropolitan Line is closed east of Baker Street on Sunday.
This seems completely redundant given that interavailability on the Met dates back to the line being built, and using the Met line is a normal event at many times. Baker Street is effectively a London Terminal.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,950
Location
UK
This seems completely redundant given that interavailability on the Met dates back to the line being built, and using the Met line is a normal event at many times. Baker Street is effectively a London Terminal.
Yes, this only grants additional validity between Baker Street and Marylebone, where interavailability doesn't normally apply.

That said, I doubt there'll be anyone who wants to use a Great Missenden, Wendover or Stoke Mandeville to London Terminals (or similar) ticket between MYB and BST, during one lockdown Sunday's engineering works.
 

Mike99

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2011
Messages
656
Location
G E M L
I think one example could be Botley - Hamble is now valid via Eastleigh ( as Hedge End is now nearly a mile closer to Eastleigh.)

It's 12.47m via Fareham and now 14.68 via Eastleigh (previously 15.66m). It's possible that some journey planners were already validating this given it was only just over the 3m limit.

I think these changes are generally improving the accuracy of the data. Prior to this change there were 67 stations pairs with an impossibly* low distance given - now there are 56.

(* I've counted pairs where the distance by rail given in the data is over .25 miles shorter than the straight line distance and so clearly impossible.)
Forgive me, I try to keep up with a lot of things, and my question is probably down to a senior moment(or many moments) but how is Hedge End now nearer a mile closer to Eastleigh?
 

JB_B

Established Member
Joined
27 Dec 2013
Messages
1,413
Forgive me, I try to keep up with a lot of things, and my question is probably down to a senior moment(or many moments) but how is Hedge End now nearer a mile closer to Eastleigh?


When applying the shortest route rule ( the shortest route by rail and routes within 3 miles of shortest are permitted routes ), online journey planners use a set of electronic data which gives distances between each pair of adjacent stations. This data isn't particularly accurate and it changes from time to time. Several of the distances changed in September - as detailed in this post -


https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/post-4752727


- I was just suggesting a possible effect of one of those data changes. (Hedge End hasn't actually moved !)
 

Mike99

Member
Joined
4 Mar 2011
Messages
656
Location
G E M L
When applying the shortest route rule ( the shortest route by rail and routes within 3 miles of shortest are permitted routes ), online journey planners use a set of electronic data which gives distances between each pair of adjacent stations. This data isn't particularly accurate and it changes from time to time. Several of the distances changed in September - as detailed in this post -


https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/post-4752727


- I was just suggesting a possible effect of one of those data changes. (Hedge End hasn't actually moved !)
Thanks for explaining
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,069
Yes, this only grants additional validity between Baker Street and Marylebone, where interavailability doesn't normally apply.

That said, I doubt there'll be anyone who wants to use a Great Missenden, Wendover or Stoke Mandeville to London Terminals (or similar) ticket between MYB and BST, during one lockdown Sunday's engineering works.
Do tickets exist from Aylesbury that aren't normally valid into Baker Street? I always thought that the intervailability was 100%.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,950
Location
UK
Do tickets exist from Aylesbury that aren't normally valid into Baker Street? I always thought that the intervailability was 100%.
Tickets from Aylesbury to London Terminals would normally be valid for exit at Baker Street (see page 49) following a change somewhere between Amersham and Harrow-on-the-Hill.

Therefore in this instance the only additional validity seems to be for travel on the Bakerloo line between Marylebone and Baker Street, which are 10 minutes' walk down the road from each other.
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
3,944
Location
London
Do tickets exist from Aylesbury that aren't normally valid into Baker Street? I always thought that the intervailability was 100%.
The official interavailability is only between Amersham and Harrow-on-the-Hill (and intermediately) and between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Baker Street (but not at intermediate stations). I suspect it's more of an electronic fudge to get journey planners to route via the Met Line. Sadly it hasn't worked in the case of Atos WebTIS, which throws up a "No journeys found" error.
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,069
Tickets from Aylesbury to London Terminals would normally be valid for exit at Baker Street (see page 49) following a change somewhere between Amersham and Harrow-on-the-Hill.

Therefore in this instance the only additional validity seems to be for travel on the Bakerloo line between Marylebone and Baker Street, which are 10 minutes' walk down the road from each other.
And its usually quicker to walk between the two if you want to go from the Met platforms to Marylebone. As TfL fares are zonal there is no benefit in holding a separate ticket to Marylebone if you are continuing westward by the Bakerloo Lone.
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
Some changes were made to the routeing guide on Friday.
Changes from 04 Jan 2021 (324) to 22 Jan 2021 (325).

Easement changes:

Removed:

700920 (Fare route) Customers travelling from Accrington, Rose Grove and Burnley Manchester Road to Manchester stations on tickets priced (00381) VIA TODMORDEN may travel via Blackburn until 13 December 2020. This routeing point easement applies in both directions.

700922 (Local) Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Sole Street may travel via Rochester. This local easement applies in both directions.

700923 (Local) Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Farningham Road, Swanley or St Mary Cray may travel via Bromley South. This local easement applies in both directions.

700924 (Doubleback) Until 12 December 2020, customers travelling from Longfield and Meopham to Eynsford, Shoreham (Kent), Otford and Bat & Ball may travel via Bromley South. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.

700929 (Map) During engineering works, on the 27 - 28 December 2020 and the 01 - 03 January 2021 customers travelling to London Liverpool Street from or via Ipswich, may use rail replacement bus services from Ipswich to Stansted Airport. Then onward by train via Hackney Downs to London Liverpool Street. This temporary map easement will apply in both directions.

700931 (Fare route) During engineering works that will close the railway route into London Marylebone on Sunday 10 January 2021. Tickets on fare route (00264) CHALFONT & LATIMER are valid for interchange at Amersham and onward travel by London Underground services via Baker Street.
These are temporary easements, and the dates for them have all passed.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

Easement 700640 (NORTHERN)
Customers on journeys from St Bees; Corkickle; Whitehaven; Parton; Harrington; Workington; Flimby and Maryport to Lancaster, Carnforth, Bare Lane Morecambe, Heysham Port or to the Isle of Man with tickets routed ANY PERMITTED (00000) and (00996) ISLE OF MAN STEAM PACKET, may travel via Carlisle. This Local easement applies in both directions.
+ve local easement (10/05/2016-)
contain BAR CNF LAN, do not contain CRS KMK LPR NCL PRE, go from CKL FLM HRR MRY PRN SBS WKG WTH, go to BAR CNF HHB LAN MCM & go via CAR OXN with route ANY PERMITTED (00000) ISLE OF MAN SPC (00996)
contain BAR CNF LAN, do not contain CRS KMK LPR NCL PRE, go from BAR CNF HHB LAN MCM, go to CKL FLM HRR MRY PRN SBS WKG WTH & go via CAR OXN with route ANY PERMITTED (00000) ISLE OF MAN SPC (00996)

Stations:
Bare Lane (BAR)
Carlisle (CAR)
Corkickle (CKL)
Carnforth (CNF)
Carstairs (CRS)
Flimby (FLM)
Heysham Harbour (HHB)
Harrington (HRR)
Kilmarnock (KMK)
Lancaster (LAN)
Long Preston (LPR)
Morecambe (MCM)
Maryport (MRY)
Newcastle (NCL)
Oxenholme Lake District (OXN)
Preston (PRE)
Parton (PRN)
St.Bees (SBS)
Workington (WKG)
Whitehaven (WTH)
Some extra restrictions have been added to the data. An "any permitted" Carlisle-Lancaster ticket is valid via Hellifield. I don't know how these conditions should be interpreted, but the new restrictions suggest to me that Northern do not wish people to use an "any permitted" Workington-Lancaster ticket on that route.

There's no indication of anything like this in the easement text.
Route changes (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

RAILAIR GUILDFRD (00959) (59 records)
must go via Guildford (GLD)
must not go via Woking (WOK), Feltham (FEL) or Reading (RDG).
The Railair buses from Guildford stop near Woking station at the moment. I don't know if there's a way to get a rail+bus itinerary, so I don't know what effect this change has.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,439
Location
Yorkshire
Still no easements to cater for the sweeping Northern Rail cuts?

Church Fenton to Leeds is not an easy journey to make; we had an easement for it last Summer, so why not now?
 

Top