National Routeing Guide update

[RJ]

I think someone has cottoned on that the shortest route by rail doesn’t factor in out of station interchanges in the journey planners. Wonder what, or who triggered that!

 

[paul1609]

Some more changes for the routeing guide were published yesterday.

Changes from 06 Apr 2021 (330) to 14 Apr 2021 (331).​

Route changes​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

From:​

S W RAILWAY ONLY (01430) (944 records)​

may go via London (2)​

must not go via Slough (SLO) or Taunton (TAU)​

​

SW RAILWAY. ONLY (01431) (1483 records)​

may go via London (2)​

must not go via Havant (HAV) or Yeovil Junction (YVJ)​

​

From:​

SW. RAILWAY ONLY (01432) (345 records)​

may go via London (2)​

must not go via Barnham (BAA) or Netley (NTL)​

My understanding of the property which has been removed is that a route which goes via London doesn't have to meet the other criteria. There are only a few routes which use this code, so I don't know how exactly it affected these routes.

Some of the remaining restrictions seem a bit odd. For instance, Southampton Central-Haslemere advance tickets have an 01432 route code. This bans the route through Netley, which happens to be both the shortest route and the only mapped route.

Going via Eastleigh only adds 2.5 miles to the distance, so is allowed with a through ticket, but there's no easy way to find out how to find out that there are cheaper tickets on that route.

​

Not really sure of the etiquette of advanced tickets but for Southampton Central to Haslemere via Netley should they actually be "Southern Railway + connections" with the financial implications that implies? Southern GTR are the prime operator of direct services Southampton to Havant (2 tph) GWR have 3pd. The Southampton to Havant leg is about a mile longer than that on to Haslemere. Going via Eastleigh and SWR have the majority of the route.

 

[Nunners]

Not really sure of the etiquette of advanced tickets but for Southampton Central to Haslemere via Netley should they actually be "Southern Railway + connections" with the financial implications that implies? Southern GTR are the prime operator of direct services Southampton to Havant (2 tph) GWR have 3pd. The Southampton to Havant leg is about a mile longer than that on to Haslemere. Going via Eastleigh and SWR have the majority of the route.

I think the intention for the advance tickets would be that the passenger takes a stopper to Fratton/Hilsea and then an SWR London service to Haslemere

 

[kieron]

A temporary easement was added to the routeing guide this afternoon.

Changes from 25 Jun 2021 (342) to 02 Jul 2021 (343).

Easement changes:

Added:

700950 (Doubleback) During engineering work disruptions on Saturdays from 10 July 2021 to 31 July 2021, customers travelling from Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbeywood may travel via Bristol Parkway. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.​

Part of the line north of Bristol Temple Meads is closed then, so there are few trains between there and Filton Abbey Wood. This easement gives people an alternative to the buses.

The data for the easement also covers journeys via Bristol Temple Meads, rather than just ones which start or end there.

 

[kieron]

Two easements were added to the routeing guide this afternoon:

Changes from 02 Jul 2021 (343) to 06 Aug 2021 (344).

Easement changes:

Added:

700951 (Circuitous Route) Journeys between Yeovil Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill are prohibited via Castle Cary due to the fares checking rules of the Routeing Guide. To prevent customers being misled by retail systems not applying this rule, this circuitous route easement has been published to confirm that journeys between the stations are not valid via Castle Cary.​

There are no NFM64 fares defined between Yeovil Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill, and I don't know when this would have been identified as a valid route.

700952 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling from Ockley or Holmwood (Surrey) to Rainham (Kent) may travel via Dorking (Main) This routeing point easement will overcome the fares checking rule of the Routeing Guide and will apply in both directions.​

This change addresses a problem which arises because there are no NFM64 fares between Ockley or Holmwood and Rainham, and the shortest route between them is rather slow. There should be more web sites which show Ockley-London-Rainham as a valid route.

The same problem affects journeys between those two stations and most of the stations in Kent, however.

 

[kieron]

On Thursday, the following change was published in the routeing guide:

Changes from 06 Aug 2021 (344) to 12 Aug 2021 (345).

Route changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

From:
AP CARMARTHEN (07772) (24 records)
must go via Carmarthen (CMN)​

This is a new route, which is only defined for journeys from 5th September, so I don't know how noteworthy this change is.

This afternoon, the following changes were published in the routeing guide.

Changes from 06 Aug 2021 (344) to 16 Aug 2021 (346).

Removed:

700933 (Fare route) Due to late notice engineering works on Sunday 23 May 2021 the lines between Amersham and London Marylebone. Tickets priced on (00264) CHALFONT & LATIMER will be valid for travel on TfL Metropolitan line services This fare route easement applies in both directions

700944 (Fare route) During engineering disruption on Sundays 13 and 20 June 2021 and 04, 11 and 18 July 2021. Customers travelling from Rishton, Church & Oswaldtwistle, Accrington, Huncoat, Hapton, Rose Grove, Burnley Manchester Road, Burnley Barracks, Burnley Central, Brierfield, Nelson and Colne, to or via Manchester Victoria on tickets priced on route (00396) VIA BROMLEY CROSS will be valid on trains that travel via Hebden Bridge and Todmorden. This fare route easement applies in both directions.

700945 (Map) During engineering disruption on Sundays 13 and 20 June 2021 and 04, 11 and 18 July 2021. Customers travelling from Rishton and Church & Oswaldtwistle to or via Manchester Victoria will able to travel on trains that travel via Accrington Hebden Bridge and Todmorden. This map easement applies in both directions.

700946 (Local) During engineering disruption on Sundays 13 and 20 June 2021 and 04, 11 and 18 July 2021. Customers travelling from Huncoat, Hapton, Rose Grove, Burnley Manchester Road, Burnley Barracks, Burnley Central, Briefield, Nelson and Colne, to or via Manchester Victoria may travel via Hebden Bridge and Todmorden. This local easement applies in both directions.

700950 (Doubleback) During engineering work disruptions on Saturdays from 10 July 2021 to 31 July 2021, customers travelling from Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbeywood may travel via Bristol Parkway. This doubleback easement applies in both directions.​

These are all temporary easements which no longer have any effect.

Added:

700953 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling from Ockley or Holmwood (Surrey) to Rainham (Kent) may travel via Gillingham (Kent). This routeing point easement will overcome the fares checking rule of the Routeing Guide and will apply in both directions.​

When combined with easement 700952, this should mean that an Ockley-Rainham ticket should have valid origin and destination routeing points, and should increase the number of permitted routes.

 

[krus_aragon]

On Thursday, the following change was published in the routeing guide:

Changes from 06 Aug 2021 (344) to 12 Aug 2021 (345).​

​

Route changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

From:​

AP CARMARTHEN (07772) (24 records)​

must go via Carmarthen (CMN)​

This is a new route, which is only defined for journeys from 5th September, so I don't know how noteworthy this change is.

I can't see any significant purpose for this change in terms of routeing: trains from West Wales heading anywhere need to go via Carmarthen(*), and advance fares are unlikely to be introduced for journeys between the West Wales branches. Current advance fares seen to be restricted by operator (e.g. AP TFW only / TFW & Connections for journeys to Cardiff) rather than geographical route.

Would anyone who has the time and easy access to the fares data care to list the 24 records currently associated with this route?

* Except for the two-or-so trains a day that take the avoiding line at Carmarthen Jn, e.g. one of the Fishguard boat trains.

 

[SargeNpton]

I can't see any significant purpose for this change in terms of routeing: trains from West Wales heading anywhere need to go via Carmarthen(*), and advance fares are unlikely to be introduced for journeys between the West Wales branches. Current advance fares seen to be restricted by operator (e.g. AP TFW only / TFW & Connections for journeys to Cardiff) rather than geographical route.

Would anyone who has the time and easy access to the fares data care to list the 24 records currently associated with this route?

* Except for the two-or-so trains a day that take the avoiding line at Carmarthen Jn, e.g. one of the Fishguard boat trains.

New through rail/bus ticketing.

 

[krus_aragon]

New through rail/bus ticketing.

Ah, for destinations such as Lampeter and Aberystwyth, perhaps? That'll be of interest to readers of the TrawsCymru buses thread, I suspect. Thanks.

 

[Haywain]

Ah, for destinations such as Lampeter and Aberystwyth, perhaps?

Yes, I can see Advance fares for Cardiff to Lampeter, Aberaeron, and Aberystwyth on route AP Carmarthen are now visible, for travel from September 5th. Also walk-up fares route via Carmarthen.

 

[krus_aragon]

Yes, I can see Advance fares for Cardiff to Lampeter, Aberaeron, and Aberystwyth on route AP Carmarthen are now visible, for travel from September 5th. Also walk-up fares route via Carmarthen.

Excellent, thanks. I've cross-posted about it in the TrawsCymru thread (even though the unfurled post below doesn't match the link):

TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

It is possible to go from Cardiff to Newtown and return the same day. The same is not true of Cardiff to Aberystwyth. False. For example, on Monday 9/8/21, the following trip is possible with 6 hours in Aberystwyth: Cardiff Central Railway Station 0750 depart 2300 arrive Carmarthen...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[kieron]

Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 16 Aug 2021 (346) to 17 Aug 2021 (347).

Easement changes:

Added:

700954 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling from (a) Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate, Salford Crescent, Salford Central and Bolton to or via Wigan North Western; or to or via Wigan Wallgate; (b) travelling via Bolton to or via Wigan North Western; (c) travelling via Bolton to or via Wigan Wallgate, are not permitted to travel via Leyland. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

This easement (or at least, the text version of it) covers quite a few things, including:

(1) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Wigan-Leyland-<somewhere>
(2) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Leyland-Wigan-<somewhere>
(3) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Leyland-Wigan
(4) <somewhere>-Bolton-Leyland-Wigan
(5) <somewhere>-Bolton-Leyland-Wigan-<somewhere>
(6) <somewhere>-Bolton-Wigan-Leyland-<somewhere>

As well as the reverse of each of these routes.

The first set of routes is a bit troubling, as there are Manchester Airport-Barrow-in-Furness trains which go through Manchester Piccadilly, Wigan North Western and Leyland on the way. If you used (say) a Manchester-Giggleswick ticket on one it would contravene this easement.

As it happens, Leyland isn't a "mandatory timing point" and these train do not stop there, meaning that web sites will not normally detect that a train passes through Leyland at all unless it stops there. I wouldn't like to rely on this sort of thing, though.

Route changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

AP ABERYSTWYTH (07775) (9 records)
must go via Aberystwyth (AYW)
must not go via Shrewsbury (SHR)
must include bus

VIA ABERYSTWYTH (00649) (126 records)
must go via Aberystwyth (AYW)
must not go via Shrewsbury (SHR)
must include bus

VIA CARMARTHEN (00648) (150 records)
must go via Carmarthen (CMN)
must not go via Shrewsbury (SHR)
must include bus

AP CARMARTHEN (07772) (24 records)
must go via Carmarthen (CMN)
must not go via Shrewsbury (SHR)​

These are all route codes which are due to take effect from 5th September, and thy all involve a bus which goes between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen.

The codes are each used:

VIA CARMARTHEN (00648)
From: BAJ BGN BNF CDB CDF CDQ CYS FYS GWN KWL LAS LLE LLR LWM NTH NWP PBY PCD PTA PYC PYL RIA SKE SWA WMI
To: AER AYW BOW BRH CWS DVY LTR MCN NWT WLP

VIA ABERYSTWYTH (00649)
From: BOW BRH CWS DVY MCN NWT WLP
To: AER BAJ BGN BNF CDB CDF CDQ CMN CYS FYS GWN KWL LAS LLE LLR LTR LWM NTH NWP PBY PCD PTA PYC PYL RIA SKE SWA WMI

AP CARMARTHEN (07772)
From: BGN CDB CDF CDQ CYS LLR NWP PCD PYC
To: AER AYW LTR WLP

AP ABERYSTWYTH (07775)
From: WLP
To: AER BGN CDB CDF CDQ CMN CYS LLR LTR NWP PCD PYC

The AP/via Carmarthen tickets are all going north, and the AP/via Aberystwyth ones going south. The flexible tickets are all day single and returns, and off peak returns with 8A restrictions.

The stations in the list are:
Aberaeron (bus) (AER)
Aberystwyth (AYW)
Baglan (BAJ)
Bridgend (BGN)
Briton Ferry (BNF)
Bow Street (BOW)
Borth (BRH)
Cardiff Bay (CDB)
Cardiff Central (CDF)
Cardiff Queen Street (CDQ)
Carmarthen (CMN)
Caersws (CWS)
Cathays (CYS)
Dovey Junction (DVY)
Ferryside (FYS)
Gowerton (GWN)
Kidwelly (KWL)
Llansamlet (LAS)
Llanelli (LLE)
Llanharan (LLR)
Lampeter (bus) (LTR)
Llantwit Major (LWM)
Machynlleth (MCN)
Neath (NTH)
Newport (South Wales) (NWP)
Newtown (NWT)
Pembrey & Burry Port (PBY)
Pencoed (PCD)
Port Talbot Parkway (PTA)
Pontyclun (PYC)
Pyle (PYL)
Rhoose (Cardiff Int Airpt) (RIA)
Skewen (SKE)
Swansea (SWA)
Welshpool (WLP)
Wildmill (WMI)

The diagram below shows where tickets with one of these codes go to or from.

 

[roversfan2001]

Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 16 Aug 2021 (346) to 17 Aug 2021 (347).​

​

Easement changes:​

​

Added:​

​

700954 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling from (a) Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate, Salford Crescent, Salford Central and Bolton to or via Wigan North Western; or to or via Wigan Wallgate; (b) travelling via Bolton to or via Wigan North Western; (c) travelling via Bolton to or via Wigan Wallgate, are not permitted to travel via Leyland. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

This easement (or at least, the text version of it) covers quite a few things, including:

(1) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Wigan-Leyland-<somewhere>
(2) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Leyland-Wigan-<somewhere>
(3) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Leyland-Wigan
(4) <somewhere>-Bolton-Leyland-Wigan
(5) <somewhere>-Bolton-Leyland-Wigan-<somewhere>
(6) <somewhere>-Bolton-Wigan-Leyland-<somewhere>

As well as the reverse of each of these routes.

The first set of routes is a bit troubling, as there are Manchester Airport-Barrow-in-Furness trains which go through Manchester Piccadilly, Wigan North Western and Leyland on the way. If you used (say) a Manchester-Giggleswick ticket on one it would contravene this easement.

As it happens, Leyland isn't a "mandatory timing point" and these train do not stop there, meaning that web sites will not normally detect that a train passes through Leyland at all unless it stops there. I wouldn't like to rely on this sort of thing, though.

This was an ‘issue’ on a number of TIS for years and was a source of many a loophole for the Preston-Manchester corridor. Sad to see it go.

 

[kieron]

A few small changes were made to the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 17 Aug 2021 (347) to 20 Aug 2021 (348).

Station Association changes:
Sampford Courtenay (SMC) is no longer associated with Exeter Group (G12).

Station link changes:
Okehampton (OKE) to Sampford Courtenay (SMC) no longer has a distance of 3.75.
Sampford Courtenay (SMC) to Yeoford (YEO) no longer has a distance of 10.75.​

Sampford Courtenay station is out of use. This change removes it from two of the tables it appeared in.

Okehampton already had a distance listed to Crediton, so web sites can still find the shortest route there.

In addition to this, a few Advance routes have restrictions added to their routes, a zone has been created in and around Southampton for some reason or other, and Brent Cross West has had a CRS code (BCZ) associated with it.

 

[adrock1976]

A few small changes were made to the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 17 Aug 2021 (347) to 20 Aug 2021 (348).​

​

Station Association changes:​

Sampford Courtenay (SMC) is no longer associated with Exeter Group (G12).​

​

Station link changes:​

Okehampton (OKE) to Sampford Courtenay (SMC) no longer has a distance of 3.75.​

Sampford Courtenay (SMC) to Yeoford (YEO) no longer has a distance of 10.75.​

Sampford Courtenay station is out of use. This change removes it from two of the tables it appeared in.

Okehampton already had a distance listed to Crediton, so web sites can still find the shortest route there.

In addition to this, a few Advance routes have restrictions added to their routes, a zone has been created in and around Southampton for some reason or other, and Brent Cross West has had a CRS code (BCZ) associated with it.

Regarding Brent Cross West having the BCZ CRS code, could BCW have been used as that one is vacant?

Or is this a London Underground/Transport for London thing, as some LU interchange stations have the letter Z in them (e.g. Farringdon)?

 

[MikeWh]

Regarding Brent Cross West having the BCZ CRS code, could BCW have been used as that one is vacant?

Or is this a London Underground/Transport for London thing, as some LU interchange stations have the letter Z in them (e.g. Farringdon)?

According to a Geoff Marshall video it was originally going to be called Brent Cross South, and BCS is Bicester North.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding Brent Cross West having the BCZ CRS code, could BCW have been used as that one is vacant?

Or is this a London Underground/Transport for London thing, as some LU interchange stations have the letter Z in them (e.g. Farringdon)?

The LU thing is always a leading Z isn’t it, eg ZFD for your example?

 

[kieron]

Some more changes were published in the routeing guide this afternoon.

Changes from 20 Aug 2021 (348) to 25 Aug 2021 (349).

Easement changes:

Added:

700955 (Routeing Point) Customer travelling from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth on route (01000) ANY PERMITTED may travel via Llanelli. This routeing point easement, mitigates NFM64 fares checks in journey planning systems, and will operate in both directions.​

This relates to a NFM64 fare check failure for fares from Carmarthen. The fare check also fails for tickets between Carmarthen and any other Cambrian line stations west of Caersws.

There is some variety in what web sites will do if you ask for a ticket between Carmarthen and one of these stations, however. Some only sell +AP SHREWSBURY tickets, some also sell flexible tickets, and some sell a different ticket entirely.

700956 (Fare route) During engineering work diversions on Saturday 02 October 2021, tickets priced on fare route (00099) NOT VIA DARLINGTON, will be valid for travel on trains travelling via Darlington.​

There is engineering work in Manchester, so fewer trains than normal are running to Redcar, and a change at Darlington can fill in some of the gaps.

700957 (Map) During engineering work affecting the routes to South Wales on the weekends 09/10, 16/17, 23/24 and Saturday 30 October 2021. Customers travelling from Castle Cary, Westbury, Trowbridge, Melksham and Chippenham to South Wales will be permitted to travel on trains via Swindon, Stroud, Gloucester and Lydney. This map easement will apply in both directions.​

The timetable hasn't been updated yet to show these changes.

The data for the easement doesn't say your journey needs to start or end anywhere in particular, though, but only that it needs to go via Lydney.

Route changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

From:
WARMSTER-SALSBRY (00800) (2523 records)
must not go via Newbury (NBY) or Swindon (SWI)
must go via Salisbury (SAL) or Warminster (WMN)​

This restricts the itineraries web sites are likely to give you with this ticket. The description on the ticket has not changed.

 

[kieron]

Some more changes in the routeing guide were published this afternoon.

Changes from 25 Aug 2021 (349) to 02 Sep 2021 (350).

Added:

700958 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling from Carmarthen to Bow Street, Borth, Machynlleth and Dovey Junction on tickets priced (01000) . ANY PERMITTED and (00498) AP TFW ONLY may travel via Llanelli. This routeing point easement will counter NFM64 fares checking , and apply in both directions.​

This extends easement 700955 to some additional stations.

700959 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling with tickets priced on route (00498) AP TFW ONLY, may not use the TransCymru bus services that operate between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

This restricts which advance tickets people are offered on these buses.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

700955 (Routeing Point) Customer travelling from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth on route (01000) ANY PERMITTED and (00498) AP TFW ONLY may travel via Llanelli. This routeing point easement, mitigates NFM64 fares checks in journey planning systems, and will operate in both directions.​

This applies 700955 to advance tickets. TfW also price (00455) AP SHREWSBURY tickets between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth, but they don't need this easement.

700957 (Map) During engineering work affecting the routes to South Wales on the weekends 09/10, 16/17, 23/24 and Saturday 30 Sunday 31 October 2021. Customers travelling from Castle Cary, Westbury, Trowbridge, Melksham and Chippenham to South Wales will be permitted to travel on trains via Swindon, Stroud, Gloucester and Lydney. This map easement will apply in both directions.​

This reflects a change in the schedule.

Station link changes:

Burton-On-Trent (BUT) to Lichfield Trent Valley (LTV) no longer has a distance of 10.79.​

This is a line passenger trains don't normally use, so removing the distance link should make it easier to buy tickets between, for instance, Burton and Lichfield.

Location changes:

Gain: nlc=1123 crs=PRI uic=70 county=11 (19/08/2021-)
Gain: nlc=7779 crs=MBT uic=70 county=00 (19/08/2021-)​

This adds Portway Parkway (PRI) in Avonmouth and Marsh Barton (MBT) in Exeter to the routeing guide data.

 

[kieron]

Some changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 02 Sep 2021 (350) to 10 Sep 2021 (351).​

​

Easement changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

700959 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling with tickets priced on routes (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00200) VIA LONDON, (00312) VIA MANCHESTER, (00320) VIA SHREWSBURY, (00492) AP TFW LM & CONNS ONLY, (00439) XC & CONNECTIONS, (00452) AWC & CONNECTIONS, (00498) AP TFW ONLY, (00645) VIA CARDIFF, (00817) VIA BRISTOL, (01000) route dot ANY PERMITTED, may not use the TransCymru bus services that operate between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

This further restricts what you can use on these buses. The list web sites use is slightly shorter, and makes it clear that it doesn't affect bus-only journeys or journeys to Lampeter.

There isn't a simple way for an easement to be written to say "apply this to tickets with any route code apart from these ones", so I can see this easement growing further.

Route changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

VIA CARDIFF (00645) (273 records)​

must go via Cardiff Central (CDF)​

From what I can see, the via Cardiff route is only currently used on routes where an "any permitted" ticket would only be valid via Cardiff. This may not affect anything.

In addition, some "Lumo only" routes (00562, 01433 and 01435) have been changed so they aren't valid via London.

---

The following post was provided on 15 September 2021.

---

Some changes to the routeing guide were published on Monday.

Changes from 10 Sep 2021 (351) to 13 Sep 2021 (352).​

​

Station Association changes (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

Aberystwyth (AYW) is associated with Swansea Group (G38) and Machynlleth Group (G41)​

Carmarthen (CMN) is associated with Swansea Group (G38), Machynlleth Group (G41) and Whitland (WTL)​

This means that tickets such as Aberystwyth-Swansea and Carmarthen-Barmouth aren't valid via Newport.

The only flexible ticket to (say) Harlech has route code 01000 (sometimes shown with a dot). Easement 077959 means that this cannot be used for travel via Aberystwyth. This change now means that it cannot be used for travel via Newpor


In addition, some "Lumo only" route codes (00562, 01433 and 01435) have lost a "not via London" restriction.

 

[Paul Kelly]

This means that tickets such as Aberystwyth-Swansea and Carmarthen-Barmouth aren't valid via Newport.

So by making it all a local journey, I think they're saying that you must either use the bus or the shortest route (presumably the Heart of Wales line?) if travelling between these parts of Wales; you can no longer use mapped routes via Cardiff? That doesn't seem very reasonable. Someone should ask the DfT about why they gave approval for this change.

 

[Watershed]

Someone should ask the DfT about why they gave approval for this change.

I think we all know what the answer to that one is going to be!

Making changes to the fares and routeing data seems to be treated as an everyday "IT issue"; the contractual (and consumer rights) implications of these changes completely go under the radar.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So by making it all a local journey, I think they're saying that you must either use the bus or the shortest route (presumably the Heart of Wales line?) if travelling between these parts of Wales; you can no longer use mapped routes via Cardiff? That doesn't seem very reasonable. Someone should ask the DfT about why they gave approval for this change.

I don't think DfT would have been involved.

 

[JB_B]

I don't think DfT would have been involved.

Ok...

Out of interest - who do you think would have been involved?

 

[Dai Corner]

Ok...

Out of interest - who do you think would have been involved?

Presumably the Welsh Government, who specify and fund the relevant bus and train services as well as owning the train operator.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Presumably the Welsh Government, who specify and fund the relevant bus and train services as well as owning the train operator.

Exactly or TfW as they like to be known

 

[kieron]

Some more changes were published in the routeing guide this afternoon.

Changes from 13 Sep 2021 (352) to 15 Sep 2021 (353).​

​

Station Association changes:​

Aberystwyth (AYW) is no longer associated with Swansea Group (G38).​

Carmarthen (CMN) is no longer associated with Machynlleth Group (G41).​

This reverses the change from Monday.

Easement changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

Easement 700959 (TRANSPORT FOR WALES RAIL)​

Customers travelling with tickets priced on routes (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00200) VIA LONDON, (00312) VIA MANCHESTER, (00320) VIA SHREWSBURY, (00492) AP TFW LM & CONNS ONLY, (00439) XC & CONNECTIONS, (00452) AWC & CONNECTIONS, (00498) AP TFW ONLY, (00645) VIA CARDIFF, (00817) VIA BRISTOL, (01000) route dot ANY PERMITTED, may not use the TransCymru bus services that operate between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

-ve circuitous route easement (02/09/2021-)​

contain AYW, go from AYW BOW BRH, go to CMN & go via AYW with route 00000 00200 00312 00320 00429 00439 00452 00498 00645 00817 01000 ​

contain CMN, go from CMN FYS KWL LLE PBY, go to AYW & go via CMN with route 00000 00200 00312 00320 00429 00439 00452 00498 00645 00817 01000​

contain AYW & go via AYW CMN with route 00000 00200 00312 00320 00429 00439 00452 00498 00645 00817 01000 ​

contain AYW CMN, go to AYW & go via CMN ​

contain AYW CMN, go to CMN & go via AYW​

​

Stations:​

Aberystwyth (AYW)​

Bow Street (BOW)​

Borth (BRH)​

Carmarthen (CMN)​

Forres (FOR)​

Ferryside (FYS)​

Kidwelly (KWL)​

Llanelli (LLE)​

Pembrey & Burry Port (PBY)​

The rules for this easement have been changed, but the text has not. I don't know enough about how the rules are interpreted to say whether or not the new rules are closer than to the text than the old ones. I do notice that the newly added rules don't specify any route codes.

I appreciate that TfW have problems they are trying to address. Their own web site couldn't find any tickets for a Ferryside-Barmouth journey for tomorrow until I entered a "via" point, but it is willing to sell some other tickets for a very indirect route. I suspect it will take more than today's changes to fix everything.

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The following post was made on 18 Sep 2021.

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Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 15 Sep 2021 (353) to 17 Sep 2021 (354).​

​

Easement changes:​

​

Added:​

​

700960 (Local) Customers travelling with tickets priced on routes (00498) AP TFW ONLYand (01000) route dot ANY PERMITTED, may not use the TransCymru bus services that operate between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. This local easement applies in both directions​

This is (roughly) a "local" version of 700959. As no routeing point is associated with places on both sides on the bus route, I don't think it does anything.

700961 (Routeing Point) Customers travelling to Birmingham New Street from Clandon or Horsley with tickets priced on route (00439) CROSS COUNTRY & CONNECTIONS, may travel via Guildford. This routeing point easement applies in both directions.​

This seems to be an easement to permit something which is already allowed. The NFM64 fares between Birmingham New Street and Clandon, Horsley or Guildford with route "via Oxford" are all 2520 in both directions.

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

Easement 700959 (TRANSPORT FOR WALES RAIL)​

Customers travelling with tickets priced on routes (00000) ANY PERMITTED, (00200) VIA LONDON, (00312) VIA MANCHESTER, (00320) VIA SHREWSBURY, (00492) AP TFW LM & CONNS ONLY, (00439) XC & CONNECTIONS, (00452) AWC & CONNECTIONS, (00498) AP TFW ONLY, (00645) VIA CARDIFF, (00817) VIA BRISTOL, (01000) route dot ANY PERMITTED, may not use the TransCymru bus services that operate between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. This circuitous route easement applies in both directions​

-ve circuitous route easement (02/09/2021-)​

contain AYW, go from AYW BOW BRH, go to CMN & go via AYW with route 00000 00200 00312 00320 00429 00439 00452 00498 00645 00817 01000 ​

contain CMN, go from CMN FYS KWL LLE PBY, go to AYW & go via CMN with route 00000 00200 00312 00320 00429 00439 00452 00498 00645 00817 01000​

contain AYW & go via AYW CMN with route 00000 00200 00312 00320 00429 00439 00452 00498 00645 00817 01000​

contain AYW CMN, go to AYW & go via CMN​

contain AYW CMN, go to CMN & go via AYW​

​

Stations:​

Aberystwyth (AYW)​

Bow Street (BOW)​

Borth (BRH)​

Carmarthen (CMN)​

Ferryside (FYS)​

Kidwelly (KWL)​

Llanelli (LLE)​

Pembrey & Burry Port (PBY)​

This has been changed again. I don't know what effect this has.

Station link changes:​

Whitchurch (Salop) (WTC)-Wrenbury (WRE) from 4.79 to 4.95.​

Prees (PRS)-Whitchurch (Salop) (WTC) from 5.05 to 4.90.​

Prees (PRS)-Wem (WEM) from 3.10 to 3.26.​

Wem (WEM)-Yorton (YRT) from 3.64 to 3.46.​

Shrewsbury (SHR)-Yorton (YRT) from 7.10 to 7.32.​

Church Stretton (CTT)-Craven Arms (CRV) from 6.95 to 7.17.​

Leominster (LEO)-Ludlow (LUD) from 11.23 to 12.59.​

Abergavenny (AGV)-Hereford (HFD) from 24.14 to 23.99.​

Cwmbran (CWM)-Pontypool and New Inn (PPL) from 2.99 to 2.92.​

Cwmbran (CWM)-Newport (South Wales) (NWP) from 6.99 to 7.99.​

This means the distance web sites give for a journey between Wrenbury and Newport has increased by 2 1/2 miles. I don't know if this affects which routes a web site shows as valid.

Route changes:​

​

Added:​

​

HUDFD NOT LEEDS (00261) (144 records)​

must go via Huddersfield (HUD)​

must not go via Leeds (LDS)​

This route code was introduced last year, but has only been added to the routeing guide data now. This route code is the reason why you can't buy a Todmorden-Marsden ticket and travel via Manchester with it.

 

[kieron]

Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 22 Sep 2021 (355) to 29 Sep 2021 (356).

Permitted Route changes:

Reading Group (G24) to Woking (WOK) gain RU​

This adds a route via Basingstoke.

As a result, a journey from Reading to any stationb between Basingstoke and Earlsfield can go via Basingstoke.

Easement changes:

Added:

700962 (Doubleback) Journeys from stations on the Great Yarmouth-Norwich line via Acle to stations on the Norwich-Lowestoft line may go via Norwich and pass
through Brundall twice. This doubleback easement applies in both directions​

This is a "doubleback" version of the "local" easement 1. I'm a bit surprised at how well this easement works, at least on nre.co.uk. I only expected it to check local easements for a local journey like these ones, and easement 1 only has data for travel southbound.

Easement 700493 (which is supposed to allow travel via Brundall) works less well. This is a pity, as it's often quicker to change there.

There was also an update last week, but it only involved changes to advance tickets, so didn't seem worth a post. For the record, it was:

Route changes:

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):

SW RAILWAY. ONLY (01431) (1310 records)
must not go via Havant (HAV) or Yeovil Junction (YVJ)
may only use SW​

This means that you can't buy, for instance, a Guildford-Southampton advance ticket to travel via Havant.

 

[paul1609]

Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.

Changes from 22 Sep 2021 (355) to 29 Sep 2021 (356).​

​

Permitted Route changes:​

​

Reading Group (G24) to Woking (WOK) gain RU​

This adds a route via Basingstoke.

As a result, a journey from Reading to any stationb between Basingstoke and Earlsfield can go via Basingstoke.

Easement changes:​

​

Added:​

​

700962 (Doubleback) Journeys from stations on the Great Yarmouth-Norwich line via Acle to stations on the Norwich-Lowestoft line may go via Norwich and pass ​

through Brundall twice. This doubleback easement applies in both directions​

This is a "doubleback" version of the "local" easement 1. I'm a bit surprised at how well this easement works, at least on nre.co.uk. I only expected it to check local easements for a local journey like these ones, and easement 1 only has data for travel southbound.

Easement 700493 (which is supposed to allow travel via Brundall) works less well. This is a pity, as it's often quicker to change there.

There was also an update last week, but it only involved changes to advance tickets, so didn't seem worth a post. For the record, it was:

Route changes:​

​

Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):​

​

SW RAILWAY. ONLY (01431) (1310 records)​

must not go via Havant (HAV) or Yeovil Junction (YVJ)​

may only use SW​

This means that you can't buy, for instance, a Guildford-Southampton advance ticket to travel via Havant.

A Guilford to Southampton via Havant ticket would have to be a SWR plus connections ticket with a big revenue loss to Southern and Great Western.

 

[infobleep]

A Guilford to Southampton via Havant ticket would have to be a SWR plus connections ticket with a big revenue loss to Southern and Great Western.

Surely the revenue goes to the government.