RJ
Established Member
I think someone has cottoned on that the shortest route by rail doesn’t factor in out of station interchanges in the journey planners. Wonder what, or who triggered that!
Not really sure of the etiquette of advanced tickets but for Southampton Central to Haslemere via Netley should they actually be "Southern Railway + connections" with the financial implications that implies? Southern GTR are the prime operator of direct services Southampton to Havant (2 tph) GWR have 3pd. The Southampton to Havant leg is about a mile longer than that on to Haslemere. Going via Eastleigh and SWR have the majority of the route.Some more changes for the routeing guide were published yesterday.
Changes from 06 Apr 2021 (330) to 14 Apr 2021 (331).
Route changesChanged (added sections in red, removed ones in green):From:S W RAILWAY ONLY (01430) (944 records)may go via London (2)must not go via Slough (SLO) or Taunton (TAU)SW RAILWAY. ONLY (01431) (1483 records)may go via London (2)must not go via Havant (HAV) or Yeovil Junction (YVJ)From:SW. RAILWAY ONLY (01432) (345 records)may go via London (2)must not go via Barnham (BAA) or Netley (NTL)My understanding of the property which has been removed is that a route which goes via London doesn't have to meet the other criteria. There are only a few routes which use this code, so I don't know how exactly it affected these routes.
Some of the remaining restrictions seem a bit odd. For instance, Southampton Central-Haslemere advance tickets have an 01432 route code. This bans the route through Netley, which happens to be both the shortest route and the only mapped route.
Going via Eastleigh only adds 2.5 miles to the distance, so is allowed with a through ticket, but there's no easy way to find out how to find out that there are cheaper tickets on that route.
I think the intention for the advance tickets would be that the passenger takes a stopper to Fratton/Hilsea and then an SWR London service to HaslemereNot really sure of the etiquette of advanced tickets but for Southampton Central to Haslemere via Netley should they actually be "Southern Railway + connections" with the financial implications that implies? Southern GTR are the prime operator of direct services Southampton to Havant (2 tph) GWR have 3pd. The Southampton to Havant leg is about a mile longer than that on to Haslemere. Going via Eastleigh and SWR have the majority of the route.
I can't see any significant purpose for this change in terms of routeing: trains from West Wales heading anywhere need to go via Carmarthen(*), and advance fares are unlikely to be introduced for journeys between the West Wales branches. Current advance fares seen to be restricted by operator (e.g. AP TFW only / TFW & Connections for journeys to Cardiff) rather than geographical route.On Thursday, the following change was published in the routeing guide:
Changes from 06 Aug 2021 (344) to 12 Aug 2021 (345).Route changes:Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):From:AP CARMARTHEN (07772) (24 records)must go via Carmarthen (CMN)This is a new route, which is only defined for journeys from 5th September, so I don't know how noteworthy this change is.
New through rail/bus ticketing.I can't see any significant purpose for this change in terms of routeing: trains from West Wales heading anywhere need to go via Carmarthen(*), and advance fares are unlikely to be introduced for journeys between the West Wales branches. Current advance fares seen to be restricted by operator (e.g. AP TFW only / TFW & Connections for journeys to Cardiff) rather than geographical route.
Would anyone who has the time and easy access to the fares data care to list the 24 records currently associated with this route?
* Except for the two-or-so trains a day that take the avoiding line at Carmarthen Jn, e.g. one of the Fishguard boat trains.
Ah, for destinations such as Lampeter and Aberystwyth, perhaps? That'll be of interest to readers of the TrawsCymru buses thread, I suspect. Thanks.New through rail/bus ticketing.
Yes, I can see Advance fares for Cardiff to Lampeter, Aberaeron, and Aberystwyth on route AP Carmarthen are now visible, for travel from September 5th. Also walk-up fares route via Carmarthen.Ah, for destinations such as Lampeter and Aberystwyth, perhaps?
Excellent, thanks. I've cross-posted about it in the TrawsCymru thread (even though the unfurled post below doesn't match the link):Yes, I can see Advance fares for Cardiff to Lampeter, Aberaeron, and Aberystwyth on route AP Carmarthen are now visible, for travel from September 5th. Also walk-up fares route via Carmarthen.
This was an ‘issue’ on a number of TIS for years and was a source of many a loophole for the Preston-Manchester corridor. Sad to see it go.Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.
Changes from 16 Aug 2021 (346) to 17 Aug 2021 (347).Easement changes:Added:700954 (Circuitous Route) Customers travelling from (a) Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Victoria, Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate, Salford Crescent, Salford Central and Bolton to or via Wigan North Western; or to or via Wigan Wallgate; (b) travelling via Bolton to or via Wigan North Western; (c) travelling via Bolton to or via Wigan Wallgate, are not permitted to travel via Leyland. This circuitous route easement applies in both directionsThis easement (or at least, the text version of it) covers quite a few things, including:
(1) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Wigan-Leyland-<somewhere>
(2) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Leyland-Wigan-<somewhere>
(3) Manchester/Salford/Bolton-Leyland-Wigan
(4) <somewhere>-Bolton-Leyland-Wigan
(5) <somewhere>-Bolton-Leyland-Wigan-<somewhere>
(6) <somewhere>-Bolton-Wigan-Leyland-<somewhere>
As well as the reverse of each of these routes.
The first set of routes is a bit troubling, as there are Manchester Airport-Barrow-in-Furness trains which go through Manchester Piccadilly, Wigan North Western and Leyland on the way. If you used (say) a Manchester-Giggleswick ticket on one it would contravene this easement.
As it happens, Leyland isn't a "mandatory timing point" and these train do not stop there, meaning that web sites will not normally detect that a train passes through Leyland at all unless it stops there. I wouldn't like to rely on this sort of thing, though.
A few small changes were made to the routeing guide yesterday.
Changes from 17 Aug 2021 (347) to 20 Aug 2021 (348).Station Association changes:Sampford Courtenay (SMC) is no longer associated with Exeter Group (G12).Station link changes:Okehampton (OKE) to Sampford Courtenay (SMC) no longer has a distance of 3.75.Sampford Courtenay (SMC) to Yeoford (YEO) no longer has a distance of 10.75.Sampford Courtenay station is out of use. This change removes it from two of the tables it appeared in.
Okehampton already had a distance listed to Crediton, so web sites can still find the shortest route there.
In addition to this, a few Advance routes have restrictions added to their routes, a zone has been created in and around Southampton for some reason or other, and Brent Cross West has had a CRS code (BCZ) associated with it.
According to a Geoff Marshall video it was originally going to be called Brent Cross South, and BCS is Bicester North.Regarding Brent Cross West having the BCZ CRS code, could BCW have been used as that one is vacant?
Or is this a London Underground/Transport for London thing, as some LU interchange stations have the letter Z in them (e.g. Farringdon)?
The LU thing is always a leading Z isn’t it, eg ZFD for your example?Regarding Brent Cross West having the BCZ CRS code, could BCW have been used as that one is vacant?
Or is this a London Underground/Transport for London thing, as some LU interchange stations have the letter Z in them (e.g. Farringdon)?
So by making it all a local journey, I think they're saying that you must either use the bus or the shortest route (presumably the Heart of Wales line?) if travelling between these parts of Wales; you can no longer use mapped routes via Cardiff? That doesn't seem very reasonable. Someone should ask the DfT about why they gave approval for this change.This means that tickets such as Aberystwyth-Swansea and Carmarthen-Barmouth aren't valid via Newport.
I think we all know what the answer to that one is going to be!Someone should ask the DfT about why they gave approval for this change.
I don't think DfT would have been involved.So by making it all a local journey, I think they're saying that you must either use the bus or the shortest route (presumably the Heart of Wales line?) if travelling between these parts of Wales; you can no longer use mapped routes via Cardiff? That doesn't seem very reasonable. Someone should ask the DfT about why they gave approval for this change.
I don't think DfT would have been involved.
Presumably the Welsh Government, who specify and fund the relevant bus and train services as well as owning the train operator.Ok...
Out of interest - who do you think would have been involved?
Exactly or TfW as they like to be knownPresumably the Welsh Government, who specify and fund the relevant bus and train services as well as owning the train operator.
A Guilford to Southampton via Havant ticket would have to be a SWR plus connections ticket with a big revenue loss to Southern and Great Western.Some more changes were published in the routeing guide yesterday.
Changes from 22 Sep 2021 (355) to 29 Sep 2021 (356).Permitted Route changes:Reading Group (G24) to Woking (WOK) gain RUThis adds a route via Basingstoke.
As a result, a journey from Reading to any stationb between Basingstoke and Earlsfield can go via Basingstoke.
Easement changes:Added:700962 (Doubleback) Journeys from stations on the Great Yarmouth-Norwich line via Acle to stations on the Norwich-Lowestoft line may go via Norwich and pass through Brundall twice. This doubleback easement applies in both directionsThis is a "doubleback" version of the "local" easement 1. I'm a bit surprised at how well this easement works, at least on nre.co.uk. I only expected it to check local easements for a local journey like these ones, and easement 1 only has data for travel southbound.
Easement 700493 (which is supposed to allow travel via Brundall) works less well. This is a pity, as it's often quicker to change there.
There was also an update last week, but it only involved changes to advance tickets, so didn't seem worth a post. For the record, it was:
Route changes:Changed (added sections in red, removed ones in green):SW RAILWAY. ONLY (01431) (1310 records)must not go via Havant (HAV) or Yeovil Junction (YVJ)may only use SWThis means that you can't buy, for instance, a Guildford-Southampton advance ticket to travel via Havant.
Surely the revenue goes to the government.A Guilford to Southampton via Havant ticket would have to be a SWR plus connections ticket with a big revenue loss to Southern and Great Western.