Network Rail Fined

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Deepgreen, 10 Aug 2015.

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  1. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

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    NR has been fined £2m by the ORR for poor performance last year, including the London Bridge debacle. The question is; how does what is effectively one Government department fining another actually help anything?
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
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  3. CdBrux

    CdBrux Member

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    Would the fine result in (some of) that money being paid to ORR instead of staff bonuses?
     
  4. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Its a very visible and public punishment. Also, it becomes a matter of record. It may be a money-go-round but I'd rather them fined than no punitive action taken. Fines make the public happy.
     
  5. eMeS

    eMeS Member

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    Please don't include me in your statement. I hate public money-go-rounds. Wouldn't Community Service with Press publicity sharpen up sloppy practices somewhat better?
     
  6. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    From the BBC :

    Well, apart from the fact that he's forgotten that the GWR changed the gauge of the entire line from Taunton to Penzance in 1892, including running all the old rolling stock off, regauging hundreds of miles of track, and running the new stock in, over a SINGLE WEEKEND, a task which makes London Bridge look trivial in comparison, they have most certainly NOT kept services running - I can't get from Charing Cross to London Bridge or Greenwich any more, there's no Thameslink from St Pancras to London Bridge, they pretty much gave up on local services on the Forest Hill line at peak hours for months - and what service remained on the Southern side has been subject to regular great disruption.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Funnily enough I was thinking precisely that - what's the point in the Government fining itself?
     
  8. dk1

    dk1 Established Member

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    £2m to such organisations is like me losing my coffee money for a couple of days :roll:
     
  9. deltic

    deltic Established Member

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    It doesnt as far as I can make out and is completely pointless. If the fine came out of director's and senior managers' bonus pot then it may be worthwhile but just reducing what NR can spend on the network seems stupid and counter productive.
     
  10. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    I think that we may be looking at a much bigger government plan. There are a few rumblings about putting NR out to private tender. Have they been set up to fail to help this along the way?
    p.s. I'm not into conspiracy theories so if anybody has good reasons why this couldn't be likely I would like to hear them.
     
  11. Camden

    Camden Established Member

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    People aren't stupid.

    I don't want to see "companies" fined when it's meaningless.

    I want to see the highly paid individual(s) responsible publicly sacked (without the obligatory golden goodbye) for failing to deliver. That's what happens (or should happen) in a real company.

    What possible incentive could there be for a public sector company to be run well if there is never any risk to the people in charge? They get the rewards alright.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  12. jnjkerbin

    jnjkerbin Member

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    Like taking milk from a crying baby to punish it when the reason that it's crying is that it hasn't got enough milk.
     
  13. OxtedL

    OxtedL Established Member Quizmaster

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    Here is the relevant media release from the ORR website.

    So there is apparently an option for it to go into reparations to passengers instead.

    Even just as a fine though, there is a symbolic result in making sure everyone sees where there is fault, and also in putting some kind of value on the scale of the fault. You often see that this kind of fine makes its way straight back into the system (I recall Network Rail in the past being instructed to reinvest some amount, although I cannot recall the details?).

    The investigation and findings themselves are important, the fine is there to try and make sure they get noticed.
     
    Last edited: 10 Aug 2015
  14. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    It's a gesture only. Give on one hand, take on the other.

    Network Rail and its supply chain does need to be more efficient in my opinion.
     
  15. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    And as usual, we the workers on the ground, will loose part of our bonus, when it isn't our fault!!
    Why can't they hit the Directors instead?
     
  16. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    I don't disagree with that, maybe the targets are not equally set
     
  17. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    No you won't.
     
  18. FOH

    FOH Member

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    Seems poetic that I'm standing at London Bridge right now awaiting a delayed Southern train. The fine was not enough.
     
  19. al.currie93

    al.currie93 Member

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    I thought this too - I'm look at it as being akin to Alan Sugar firing himself from The Apprentice... :P
     
  20. HH

    HH Established Member

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    This has come up before and I said then, and have seen no reason to change my mind since, that it's the senior management who should be fined - i.e. they should lose their bonuses and pay increases, rather than a meaningless company fine.
     
  21. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Yes they are!
     
  22. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    Agreed. See post 17!
     
  23. FOH

    FOH Member

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    I don't consider myself stupid, just aggrieved. Why do you consider me stupid?
     
  24. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Depends if the reason your train is delayed is NRs fault I suppose, if it isnt why would a bigger fine make a difference, and to be fair if the reason is down to NR unless it is down to London Bridge then it still makes a bigger fine a bit pointless!
     
  25. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    The top brass at NR have already lost their bonuses, over the enhancement project issues (GW electrification delay/cost overrun etc).
     
  26. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Quite bad luck on your part, assuming you're heading for Forest Hill. Of the 65 trains departing London Bridge for same today, only 6 have departed more than 3 mins late, and the one you were waiting for was by far and away the most delayed.

    And no, the delay wasn't down to London Bridge - very few delays are now; since March services using London Bridge have performed far better than those using Victoria or Brighton or many other Southern / TL termini.
     
  27. Camden

    Camden Established Member

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    If you're very well paid then losing a bonus isn't much of a punishment.
     
  28. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    Well, they've just turned up on the BBC News, and once again haven't addressed the issues they were fined for, but once again just feel that if they say the works are "extremely complicated" then that deflects all criticism.

    They're not extremely complicated. They are a straightforward railway civil engineering job for those who have the skills to manage and plan them. However, that doesn't seem to cover the NR management any more, and they don't show any moves to getting those who know how to do these things competently into place.
     
  29. matt_world2004

    matt_world2004 Established Member

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    Wasn't part of the problems at London Bridge caused by a train operator sending all their drivers for training on the same day?
     
  30. FOH

    FOH Member

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    Yep I was waiting for the 1954 that never happened and the 2006 left quite late too. Seems pretty bad luck for me recently what with the debacle last Thursday morning too! I do agree that when things are OK it's quite good but, things go wrong more often than they used to.
     
  31. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    Easy.
    Just because your ONE train is late does not mean that the whole railway network is the same.
    I consider your analogy stupid.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Really?
    We have had the figure reduced in the last couple of years because of "poor performance ".
     
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