New GWR electric trains slower than the 1970s?

[nuneatonmark]

Two contrasting takes at the claim by RMT that the new 800s will be slower than when the HSTs were first introduced.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-45billion-train-service-slower-6586588?

http://www.burnhamandhighbridgeweek...lower_than_1977__even_after_huge_investment/?

The response from GWT does seem to make sense as far as more stops are concerned therefore not as a big improvement. I do remember that the headline services to Bristol in the 1970s may have been non-stop or maybe one stop. I am sure those more knowledgeable on here will know just how true it is and whether the RMT have a point or not.

 

[bnm]

The past is a very different country.

One where the RMT appear to quite like living in.

 

[JamesRowden]

The Mirror Article shows a BR poster advertising a 67 minutes journey between Reading and Bristol Temple Meads. HSTs are timetabled for at least 26 minutes between Paddington and Reading. Then add the 2-minute stop at Reading and that produces a 95 minute Paddington to Bristol journey time. Therefore GWRs offer of 90 minutes with the new trains looks faster to me

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Would this be government-specified IEPs operating a government-specified timetable, and running on a government-specified upgraded GW route?
What has privatisation got to do with it?

 

[cactustwirly]

What a load of rubbish! Obviously the RMT and the Mirror have run out of stories to print.

Privatised services are not only more overcrowded and expensive, but also slower

Has Mick Cash not heard of inflation and passenger growth?

 

[JamesRowden]

Also the official documents state that the IEPs must be capable of a 69 minute journey time (excluding time spent stationary at stop) between Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads with a single stop at Bristol Parkway. This time completely trumps the RMT's 85 minute 1970s journey time reference.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Whether the RMT have a point or not.

No, as is usual for the RMT.

They seem to pick the most idiotic fights and let genuine issues pass them by without noticing, but that's crap leadership rather than anything else.

HSTs were faster on complete journeys, end to end (and assuming speed limits were obeyed) but this was at the expense of fewer station calls. IEP will be slower end to end but faster point to point, which allows, for a few extra minutes in the timetable end to end, more station stops to be timetabled in.

The modern railway doesn't have capacity for 1 train to move 200 passengers between two points, when adding additional station stops could allow the same train to move another 200 or 400 passengers between intermediate stations.

 

[The Planner]

The IEP time will be a stripped out schedule with no allowances in and one train a day, I'd bet big money on 99% of services being slower than that. As for the the trains were faster, like Phillip says, different stopping patterns, no professional driving standards and I bet the dwells were shorter too.

 

[NSEFAN]

The IEP time will be a stripped out schedule with no allowances in and one train a day, I'd bet big money on 99% of services being slower than that. As for the the trains were faster, like Phillip says, different stopping patterns, no professional driving standards and I bet the dwells were shorter too.

Not accounting for the "very good 125mph" daily running which was achieved before OTMR and speed limiters were invented. Whilst this wouldn't have been built into the timetable, it would have improved service recovery somewhat and hence less padding must have been needed.

 

[swt_passenger]

Maybe the RMT could help speed the trains up a bit by letting the driver open the doors?

 

[najaB]

Maybe the RMT could help speed the trains up a bit by letting the driver open the doors?

Is DOO dispatch really faster than having a guard?

 

[gazthomas]

Maybe the RMT could help speed the trains up a bit by letting the driver open the doors?

:roll:

 

[455driver]

Maybe the RMT could help speed the trains up a bit by letting the driver open the doors?

And save a whole 4 seconds per station! :roll:
Of course what you DOO fanboys tend to miss is that a Guard can get the passengers on board faster (using the whistle) and see exactly when its safe to close the doors, whereas a driver will wait another 10 seconds or so 'just in case' there are any runners etc, something a guard will be able to see much easier than a driver looking at a monitor showing small fly encrusted images of the side of the train.

And another thread heads off into DOO is King land! :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is DOO dispatch really faster than having a guard?

Normally a few seconds quicker opening the doors while the guard carries out an extra safety check ensuring the train is fully platformed (something not done on a DOO train) but DOO is much slower to close them!

 

[Gareth Marston]

of course its not comparing apples with apples but its good PR from RMT, theirs a grain of truth in it - more than and it fits in with what passengers and public perceive of the rail industry today.

The defense line that's always taken "passengers numbers have doubled since privitisation because were great" misses the point if your on an overcrowded train having paid a fare you feel is poor value for money you want something done about it, you don't give two hoots about a bragging contest on footfall.

That's why nationalization is so popular with the public as the RDG cannot come up with answers to concerns and goes on about something that's not really cared about.

Another ball in the back of the net from the RMT Rovers as RDG Utd's back line is adrift once more with its whole defense strategy.

 

[swt_passenger]

d save a whole 4 seconds per station! :roll:
Of course what you DOO fanboys tend to miss is that a Guard can get the passengers on board faster (using the whistle) and see exactly when its safe to close the doors, whereas a driver will wait another 10 seconds or so 'just in case' there are any runners etc, something a guard will be able to see much easier than a driver looking at a monitor showing small fly encrusted images of the side of the train.

Did I mention anything about the driver closing the doors? I don't think I did. :roll:

 

[6Gman]

The past is a very different country.

One where the RMT appear to quite like living in.

We need a like button!

 

[Iskra]

of course its not comparing apples with apples but its good PR from RMT, theirs a grain of truth in it - more than and it fits in with what passengers and public perceive of the rail industry today.

The defense line that's always taken "passengers numbers have doubled since privitisation because were great" misses the point if your on an overcrowded train having paid a fare you feel is poor value for money you want something done about it, you don't give two hoots about a bragging contest on footfall.

That's why nationalization is so popular with the public as the RDG cannot come up with answers to concerns and goes on about something that's not really cared about.

Another ball in the back of the net from the RMT Rovers as RDG Utd's back line is adrift once more with its whole defense strategy.

Is it?

Can you provide some evidence for that statement please.

 

[najaB]

Did I mention anything about the driver closing the doors? I don't think I did. :roll:

Given the current state of affairs between GWR and the unions over DOO it is hard to see your statement as anything other than support for DOO since there isn't much stock where the driver opens and guard closes.

 

[Domh245]

Given the current state of affairs between GWR and the unions over DOO it is hard to see your statement as anything other than support for DOO since there isn't much stock where the driver opens and guard closes.

Pretty sure the 390s use that system, as do Guard operated Electrostars (or at the very least, guard operated 377s)

 

[swt_passenger]

Given the current state of affairs between GWR and the unions over DOO it is hard to see your statement as anything other than support for DOO since there isn't much stock where the driver opens and guard closes.

Happens on Southern OK.

 

[najaB]

Pretty sure the 390s use that system, as do Guard operated Electrostars (or at the very least, guard operated 377s)

As I said, there isn't much stock that is operated on that basis, and I don't believe that is what is proposed by GWR.

 

[route:oxford]

Surely driverless trains controlled by the signalling system would be far faster and run closer together than any driver controlled trains.

Or maybe the RMT wouldn't want to go down that route.

 

[furnessvale]

Did I mention anything about the driver closing the doors? I don't think I did. :roll:

Exactly correct. Most time is lost on trains when the guard is making his way back to a position where he can OPEN the doors after being delayed by gripping or whatever.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is it?

Can you provide some evidence for that statement please.

Given that the only statistical barometer we have is the opinion polls who consistently show a majority of the public favour re nationlisation by some margin.....but of course you knew that already.

 

[Iskra]

Given that the only statistical barometer we have is the opinion polls who consistently show a majority of the public favour re nationlisation by some margin.....but of course you knew that already.

I just googled opinion polls and yes they do actually support nationalisation. That has surprised me. Why anyone would think 1980's BR was a good thing, I do not know.

I'm not saying the current botched system is perfect, but the popularity, use and number of services has soared in modern times, which speaks volumes.

 

[asylumxl]

Given the current state of affairs between GWR and the unions over DOO it is hard to see your statement as anything other than support for DOO since there isn't much stock where the driver opens and guard closes.

Pretty sure it was a tongue in cheek comment. Some people on here take things far too seriously.

 

[yorksrob]

Why anyone would think 1980's BR was a good thing, I do not know.

Perhaps they remember it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I just googled opinion polls and yes they do actually support nationalisation. That has surprised me. Why anyone would think 1980's BR was a good thing, I do not know.

I'm not saying the current botched system is perfect, but the popularity, use and number of services has soared in modern times, which speaks volumes.

Shed load of external factors conducive to growth but let's leave that my point is the the lefts PR strikes a cord with the public on rail anyway. They've won/ are winning the PR battle. People want solutions to problems not to be told everything is the best it's ever been because of our greatness. The RDG just looks chronically out of touch and not concerned so folk look to the alternative to the status quo. Whether that works out if given a chance is another thing but Corbyn and the RMT must look forward to every time the RDG opens it's mouth.

 

[najaB]

Pretty sure it was a tongue in cheek comment. Some people on here take things far too seriously.

If it was then I apologise for taking it out of context, but it really didn't read that way to me.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Perhaps they remember it.

Remember it ?

I'm still having bloody nightmares about it.

Seriously, when BR was good, it generally was very, very good, when it was bad, it was shockingly terrible, with a lot of mediocre filling.

It was a railway filled with enthusiasts and devotees who would work 25 hours a day to keep the job going, but it was also a railway filled with sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews, all of whom treated BR as a free meal ticket, often quite literally, given the quantities of food which went out the back door.

It was a railway which got people to their destination come hell or high water, but it would often be 12 and 14 hours late, and a result of BR's own staggering inability to actually run a railway, with multiple locomotives failing, staff shortages, local strikes/stoppages and trains being diverted onto routes closed for engineering works.