New London Midland timetable

[stonecold]

You obviously need to travel from Stone to Stafford, but when travelling from Stafford to Birmingham you can go via Wolverhampton, Rugeley/Walsall, Lichfield, Tamworth or Nuneaton. Plenty of choice there!

Being delayed at Tamworth is a risk, but London Midland would be obliged to get you to your final destination (e.g. by providing a taxi if you've missed the last train back to Stone) and you'd also be entitled to Delay Repay compensation.

There appears to be a 17.39 (as well as a 17.49) to Tamworth, getting into Stone 18.02, with the connecting train leaving for Stone at 18.15 which is better, allowing for 13 minutes to connect.

So how would the tickets work, bearing in min my standard/1st split.
Also, how busy are the trains from Tamworth to B'ham, or is that a stupid question?

Thanks

 

[Rich McLean]

There appears to be a 17.39 (as well as a 17.49) to Tamworth, getting into Stone 18.02, with the connecting train leaving for Stone at 18.15 which is better, allowing for 13 minutes to connect.

So how would the tickets work, bearing in min my standard/1st split.
Also, how busy are the trains from Tamworth to B'ham, or is that a stupid question?

Thanks

Going the other direction, I remember it being so rammed passengers were left on the platform. The TM locked the toilets out of use due to the servere overcrowding.

By suggestion would be to change at Lichfield TV, and then join the stopper from there to New St. It takes longer, but less likely to be so crowded

 

[MCR247]

There appears to be a 17.39 (as well as a 17.49) to Tamworth, getting into Stone 18.02, with the connecting train leaving for Stone at 18.15 which is better, allowing for 13 minutes to connect.

So how would the tickets work, bearing in min my standard/1st split.
Also, how busy are the trains from Tamworth to B'ham, or is that a stupid question?

Thanks

In my experience (which isn't that much) there will be standing pax but not that people are getting left behind

 

[TEW]

Some new London Midland diagram info.

Class 321s
The new Class 321 diagrams are interesting, there's a return to Class 321s out all day other than on the St Albans Abbey shuttle. The two diagrams, both pairs of 321s:

5K53 0542 Northampton Depot-Milton Keynes Central 0611 ECS
2K53 0620 Milton Keynes Central-London Euston 0720
3J06 0728 London Euston-Watford Junction 0748 ECS
2J06 0755 Watford Junction-London Euston 0818
5C06 0824 London Euston-Camden Carriage Washer 0831 ECS
5T97 1723 Camden Carriage Washer-London Euston 1729 ECS
2T97 1741 London Euston-Tring 1820
2T08 1827 Tring-London Euston 1908
2K14 1924 London Euston-Milton Keynes Central 2024
5B13 2032 Milton Keynes Central-Bletchley Carriage Sidings 2052 ECS

5B24 0637 Bletchley Carriage Sidings-Bletchley 0709 ECS
2B24 0713 Bletchley-London Euston 0805
2T23 0834 London Euston-Tring 0917
2T10 0926 Tring-London Euston 1008
2T91 1034 London Euston-Tring 1117
2T18 1126 Tring-London Euston 1208
2T53 1234 London Euston-Tring 1317
2T26 1326 Tring-London Euston 1408
2T69 1434 London Euston-Tring 1517
2T34 1526 Tring-London Euston 1608
2T89 1712 London Euston-Tring 1752
2T09 1759 Tring-London Euston 1841
2T11 1904 London Euston-Tring 1947
2T14 1956 Tring-London Euston 2038
2N35 2324 London Euston-Northampton 0041
5N35 0050 Northampton-Northampton Depot 0118

Euston-Crewe Class 350/2s
There are 2 Class 350/2s booked on London-Crewe services Mondays-Fridays:

1N00 0518 Crewe-London Euston 0811
MO: 8 car 350/2 Crewe-Northampton, 12 car 350/2 Northampton-London Euston
MX: 4 car 350/2 Crewe-Northampton, 12 car 350/2 Northampton-London Euston
2Y98 0553 Birmingham New Street-Northampton 0654 attaches at Northampton.

2U99 1724 London Euston-Crewe 2037
8 car 350/2 London Euston-Northampton, 4 car 350/2 Northampton-Crewe

There are no Class 350/2s booked on London Euston-Crewe services on Saturdays.

On Sundays there are 8 services on the London Euston-Crewe route booked for Class 350/2s:

1U27 0938 Northampton-Crewe 1143
4 car 350/2 throughout

1U35 1250 London Euston-Crewe 1603
8 car 350/2 London Euston-Northampton, 4 car 350/2 Northampton-Crewe

1U39 1450 London Euston-Crewe 1803
8 car 350/2 London Euston-Northampton, 4 car 350/2 Northampton-Crewe

1U43 1650 London Euston-Crewe 2007
8 car 350/2 London Euston-Northampton, 4 car 350/2 Northampton-Crewe

1U32 1237 Crewe-London Euston 1553
4 car 350/2 Crewe-Northampton, 8 car 350/2 Northampton-London Euston

1U40 1633 Crewe-London Euston 1953
4 car 350/2 throughout

1U44 1837 Crewe-London Euston 2154
4 car 350/2 throughout

1U48 2040 Crewe-Northampton 2043
4 car 350/2 throughout

Liverpool-Birmingham
On the Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street route 2 out of 8 diagrams are Class 350/1s Mondays-Fridays:

2I02 0617 Birmingham International-Birmingham New Street 0632
2A03 0647 Birmingham New Street-Walsall 0715
1F34 0730 Walsall-Liverpool Lime Street 0943
1L85 1004 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1146
1F42 1201 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1343
1L71 1404 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1546
1F50 1601 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1743
1L87 1804 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1948
1F59 2036 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 2215
2K81 2234 Liverpool Lime Street-Crewe 2320
5K63 2357 Crewe-Crewe Depot 0002

5F25 0525 Crewe Depot-Crewe 0530
2F06 0602 Crewe-Liverpool Lime Street 0649
1L73 0704 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 0846
1F36 0901 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1044
1L89 1104 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1246
1F44 1301 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1443
1L75 1504 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1646
1F52 1701 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1843
1L91 1911 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 2047
1F61 2136 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 2321
2K83 2334 Liverpool Lime Street-Crewe 0021
5K83 0041 Crewe-Crewe Depot 0046

On Saturdays again there are 2 Class 350/1 diagrams:

5F29 0610 Crewe Depot-Crewe 0615
1F29 0632 Crewe-Liverpool Lime Street 0720
1L75 0734 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 0918
1F37 0936 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1110
1L91 1134 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1317
1F45 1336 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1510
1L77 1534 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1717
1F53 1736 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1914
1L93 1934 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 2117
2Y60 2134 Birmingham New Street-Northampton 2234 (8-car 350/1)
5Y60 2305 Northampton-Coventry Yard 2340

5C00 0553 Coventry Yard-Coventry 0558
2C00 0611 Coventry-Birmingham New Street 0640
1F32 0701 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 0846
1L81 0904 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1046
1F40 1101 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1244
1L97 1304 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1447
1F48 1501 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 1645
1L83 1704 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 1847
1F56 1901 Birmingham New Street-Liverpool Lime Street 2046
1L99 2134 Liverpool Lime Street-Birmingham New Street 2320

On Sundays all 4 diagrams on the route are Class 350/2s.

 

[Pumbaa]

Sod that - I'm driving to Birmingham from now on if only 1 out of 4 is a 350/1.

 

[TEW]

It's good news for Birmingham-London passengers though, most Birmingham-Euston services are Class 350/1s.

 

[Eagle]

It's good news for Birmingham-London passengers though, most Birmingham-Euston services are Class 350/1s.

LM are trying to concentrate the 110-capable units (/1s) on the London routes. Hopefully when the /3s (which I believe are identical spec to /1s except for the lack of third-rail shoes) arrive in the next year or so they'll be able to displace some /2s off the Liverpool diagrams.

 

[TEW]

Well the 350/1s have to operate the two 110mph timed services each hour, one Crewe and one Birmingham. The 110mph timed Birmingham interworks with the other faster Birmingham service, the Class 1 train which runs throughout in both directions rather than the Class 2 service which is split at Northampton in the up direction. This means 2 of the 3 Birmingham trains an hour have to be 350/1s.

 

[martinsh]

Sod that - I'm driving to Birmingham from now on if only 1 out of 4 is a 350/1.

I quite agree ! Though one of them is the 1736 ex Stafford which I often catch. Anyone taking bets as to how long I'll have to wait before that turns up as a 350/2 ? My guess is less that a week ...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well the 350/1s have to operate the two 110mph timed services each hour, one Crewe and one Birmingham. The 110mph timed Birmingham interworks with the other faster Birmingham service, the Class 1 train which runs throughout in both directions rather than the Class 2 service which is split at Northampton in the up direction. This means 2 of the 3 Birmingham trains an hour have to be 350/1s.

Why aren't the 350/2s capable of 110mph running ?

 

[TEW]

I don't think there is any technical issue preventing them being converted for 110mph operation, just simply a case of them not having undertaken the necessary testing and approval for 110mph running. I'd imagine LM saved a fair bit of money only clearing the /1s, and with only 2 110mph services in each direction the whole fleet doesn't need to be cleared for 110mph.

 

[Nestor]

Pantographs spring to mind!!!!!!!

 

[The Planner]

Well the 350/1s have to operate the two 110mph timed services each hour, one Crewe and one Birmingham. The 110mph timed Birmingham interworks with the other faster Birmingham service, the Class 1 train which runs throughout in both directions rather than the Class 2 service which is split at Northampton in the up direction. This means 2 of the 3 Birmingham trains an hour have to be 350/1s.

Eh ? Since when has there been a 110mph timed Birmingham ?

 

[Eagle]

They interwork with Crewe services, so they need to be 110-capable.

 

[The Planner]

I see, so slightly different then as no Birmingham service is timed at 110 to my knowledge, only the TVs.

 

[IrishDave]

I see, so slightly different then as no Birmingham service is timed at 110 to my knowledge, only the TVs.

The down xx49 departure from Euston is to be 110mph timed (precisely so it can leave Euston three minutes later and still stay in front of the xx00 to Manchester), in addition to both the up and down Trent Valley paths.

 

[Pumbaa]

They shouldn't be interworked - one of the plus points of new timetable was a fall in unit requirements, from improved turnarounds and diagrams fixed on one route for the day...

Still, better than the first draft when they forgot maintenance requirements and allocated 30/30 on a daily basis. Progress eh?

 

[Pumbaa]

The down xx49 departure from Euston is to be 110mph timed (precisely so it can leave Euston three minutes later and still stay in front of the xx00 to Manchester), in addition to both the up and down Trent Valley paths.

I don't think so - it comes over at Ledburn Junction onto the slows. It only needs 7 mins to stay ahead of a fast up its arse. The off-peak xx13 does that. Add in 3 minutes for the Watford stop and you're still a minute ahead of the time the non-110 fast Leighton service.

I agree with The Planner - I am only aware of the Crewes being 110.

 

[IrishDave]

I don't think so - it comes over at Ledburn Junction onto the slows. It only needs 7 mins to stay ahead of a fast up its arse. The off-peak xx13 does that. Add in 3 minutes for the Watford stop and you're still a minute ahead of the time the non-110 fast Leighton service.

I agree with The Planner - I am only aware of the Crewes being 110.

No, the down xx49 is the current xx46 path to Northampton speeded up by being 110mph - it's FL all the way to MKC and then crosses over from platform 5 to the DS. The equivalent up path *is* still 100mph and crosses at Ledburn (all they did was take the pathing time out to make the arrival xx45 vice xx49 currently).

See http://opentraintimes.com/schedule/P34377/2012/12/12 - click on technical to see it's timed at 110mph.

 

[MK Tom]

So Northampton gets a faster service from London but the same service to it! I take it there's no acceleration of the other Birmingham service that crosses at Ledburn then, the one that gets into MKC going north at xx:49?

 

[The Planner]

No, the down xx49 is the current xx46 path to Northampton speeded up by being 110mph - it's FL all the way to MKC and then crosses over from platform 5 to the DS. The equivalent up path *is* still 100mph and crosses at Ledburn (all they did was take the pathing time out to make the arrival xx45 vice xx49 currently).

See http://opentraintimes.com/schedule/P34377/2012/12/12 - click on technical to see it's timed at 110mph.

Interesting, I hadn't spotted they had done that. It is only timed at 110mph to MK though, it swaps back to 100mph times after.

 

[Pumbaa]

No, the down xx49 is the current xx46 path to Northampton speeded up by being 110mph - it's FL all the way to MKC and then crosses over from platform 5 to the DS. The equivalent up path *is* still 100mph and crosses at Ledburn (all they did was take the pathing time out to make the arrival xx45 vice xx49 currently).

See http://opentraintimes.com/schedule/P34377/2012/12/12 - click on technical to see it's timed at 110mph.

Fair enough - I hadn't been keeping an eye on it. Still don't know why they did it though - it was modelled and found to be okay for 100 and crossing at Ledburn. Very odd.

Actually I reckon it was going to form part of the service recovery plan before they decided not to bother trying. Means they can get a /2 up to MK on the Crewe service and not get chinged.

If anyone's seen it, you'll know how horrific it is. Good luck anyone trying to get north of Rugby when **** hits the fan...

 

[TEW]

One of the reasons for having 110mph pathed services was so they could fit two 110mph services in the current xx46 100mph path. They'd drawn diagrams of it in the original literature about Project 110. Current xx46 has WTT arrival at Milton Keynes at xx25H. The new xx49 has WTT arrival at Milton Keynes at xx25.

 

[Pumbaa]

I'm not disputing that. I was querying why they bothered as they could have run at 100, crossed at Ledburn and still arrived in Northampton with only losing 2 minutes from the original schedule. And that was fine, it was compliant with the rules and was proven to work.

 

[bILLOO]

Wasn't Northampton supposed to get two or three non-stoppers in the morning peak? Or are these planned for after 2012?

And the Buzzard expresses will not be 110mph? How come?

 

[MK Tom]

Wasn't Northampton supposed to get two or three non-stoppers in the morning peak? Or are these planned for after 2012?

And the Buzzard expresses will not be 110mph? How come?

On the latter point my understanding is the distance between Ledburn and Euston isn't long enough given the 350s' acceleration for that to make any difference.

By that do you mean Northampton-Euston non-stop? I've heard no such plans other than the one such service that already exists. There is a proposal in the long-term for a regular Northy-MKC-Euston only service run with intercity grade stock (possibly Hitatchi Express units).

 

[IrishDave]

Wasn't Northampton supposed to get two or three non-stoppers in the morning peak? Or are these planned for after 2012?

LM don't have enough stock to run extra peak trains yet; these are planned for (I think) May 2014 once they have the 350/3s.

And the Buzzard expresses will not be 110mph? How come?

As I understand it, the decision was taken to only accelerate services to 110mph where there was a capacity benefit to doing so - in other words, when accelerating it to 110mph allowed an additional service to run. So the xx46 and xx49 departures from Euston are 110mph because it enables you to fit two 110mph paths (rather than one 100mph path) between the xx43 and xx00 Pendolinos. However, you wouldn't gain enough on the xx13 departure between Euston and Ledburn Junction to squeeze an extra train in between the xx10 and xx20 Pendolinos, so the xx13 stays as 100mph.

It also helps with stock allocation and diagramming - only the 350/1s are cleared for 110mph, which make up less than half (30/67) of the total 350 fleet - so I'm not sure there are actually enough to have them on all three fast line LM paths out of Euston, every single hour (well, at least if you want through services across Northampton).

 

[TEW]

It also helps with stock allocation and diagramming - only the 350/1s are cleared for 110mph, which make up less than half (30/67) of the total 350 fleet - so I'm not sure there are actually enough to have them on all three fast line LM paths out of Euston, every single hour (well, at least if you want through services across Northampton).

In the off-peak they are all booked 350/1s as the 100mph fast line service interworks with 110mph services.

 

[Hadders]

Does anyone know if the negative easement preventing northbound journeys from Northampton going via Milton Keynes has been amended?

London Midland informed me via email (and also indicated earlier in this thread) that they were going to implement this for the timetable change but journey planners suggest it has not been implemented.

 

[All Line Rover]

Does anyone know if the negative easement preventing northbound journeys from Northampton going via Milton Keynes has been amended?

London Midland informed me via email (and also indicated earlier in this thread) that they were going to implement this for the timetable change but journey planners suggest it has not been implemented.

You should probably ask ATOC if LM has requested an update to the list of easements. It might also be worth contacting LM again, to ask for a deadline as to when the list of easements will be updated.

 

[Roverman]

I wonder if LM spent as long on the timetable as we have?