New Milton vulnerable man

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tannedfrog

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Bournemouth Echo said:
THOUSANDS of travellers were left stranded on railway platforms yesterday as police responded to a man threatening to throw himself from a bridge in New Milton

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/ne..._chaos_as_police_talk_man_off_railway_bridge/

For quite a few hours, this stopped passengers travelling between London and Southampton as well as those going through New Milton.

South West Trains said:
We will not compensate you:
For delays beyond our control, which includes: security alerts, poor weather conditions, fatality or suicide, or vandalism.

It seems pretty clear that South West Trains aren't going to pay any compensation for delayed journeys here. What about those travelling via Reading on (less disrupted) CrossCountry? Or will they just pass it back to South West Trains as it is they who manage New Milton?

Is it reasonable to expect compensation after travelling on a service which was running at the correct time, where the passenger had been trying to travel some hours earlier?!

Thanks
 
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bb21

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I don't really understand what you mean. If the customer originally planned to travel on SWT then compensation arrangements will be worked out on the basis of T&Cs applicable to SWT. If the original plan was to travel on XC then the T&Cs for XC kick in. One cannot pick and choose.

It is unfortunate that the government had bright sparks wanting to change things every few years resulting in different terms for different franchises. Hopefully in a few years these will be harmonised, unless someone at DfT decides that things should change yet again.
 

yorkie

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For quite a few hours, this stopped passengers travelling between London and Southampton as well as those going through New Milton.

It seems pretty clear that South West Trains aren't going to pay any compensation for delayed journeys here. What about those travelling via Reading on (less disrupted) CrossCountrhttp://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2593218#post2593218y? Or will they just pass it back to South West Trains as it is they who manage New Milton?
CrossCountry operate a Delay Repay scheme so any passengers who were entitled to make journeys with XC are entitled to claim accordingly.
Is it reasonable to expect compensation after travelling on a service which was running at the correct time, where the passenger had been trying to travel some hours earlier?!
It is reasonable to expect compensation when you are delayed into your final destination by 30 minutes or more, and if you were an XC customer, you are entitled to make such a claim.

If you can provide details of your intended vs actual journey and any tickets held, we may be able to provide further advice. Without that information, it would be up to you to determine whether or not you have a claim.
 

tannedfrog

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Thanks for this.

- London Terminals to Southampton Off Peak Return bought in advance
- Starting point was tube station between Paddington and Waterloo
- Intention was to leave at about 4pm
- Route intended to be chosen just before setting off, depending on live data re tube/GWR/CrossCountry/South West Trains
- Journey not attempted until 7pm due to severe delays widely reported
- Actual route via Reading using GWR & CrossCountry
- Arrival time approx 10pm which is approx 4 hour delay
 

bb21

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If you never had an original itinerary and train planned to catch then it would be very difficult to work out what your delays were. If you always intended to be flexible and alter your plans according to how things are going on each route, it would make it virtually impossible to say what you are entitled to.

The problem of course is that had you an original plan then you should have done everything to try and minimise resultant delays by travelling on the next available service unless full.

I don't quite understand the rationale for travelling via Paddington if the planned itinerary was from Waterloo, as the Salisbury/Exeter's were still running, as were the Portsmouth via Eastleighs, which would both offer a connection at Basingstoke or Winchester. It can hardly be quicker going via Paddington. As your starting point was somewhere between Paddington and Waterloo, did you never really intend to start at Waterloo? In that case T&Cs of XC would have been applicable if you intended to use that between Reading and Southampton, and compensation would have been calculated based on the extent of delay to the XC service.
 

tannedfrog

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I don't quite understand the rationale for travelling via Paddington if the planned itinerary was from Waterloo, as the Salisbury/Exeter's were still running, as were the Portsmouth via Eastleighs, which would both offer a connection at Basingstoke or Winchester. It can hardly be quicker going via Paddington.
My knowledge about alternative routes in this area isn't too good and the TOCs' Twitter feeds didn't seem to offer much other than travelling the next day or going via Westbury (?!). I was concerned about severe overcrowding at Waterloo and Basingstoke (based on Twitter) so it seemed reasonable to try to beat the crowds by boarding a southbound train at Reading instead.

I had taken the Reading route before on an engineering day so knew it was a reasonable one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The problem of course is that had you an original plan then you should have done everything to try and minimise resultant delays by travelling on the next available service unless full.
I did do this based on the information available, as I really wanted to get there!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As your starting point was somewhere between Paddington and Waterloo, did you never really intend to start at Waterloo?
I guess my route intention was not crystallised until after I had checked for delays!

In that case T&Cs of XC would have been applicable if you intended to use that between Reading and Southampton, and compensation would have been calculated based on the extent of delay to the XC service.
The XC service was only slightly delayed.
The GWR service was probably more delayed! Maybe I should claim from both for half each.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I didn't expect the answer to be so nuanced!

Thousands of people must have been disrupted throughout the day including some stuck on a stationary train for hours I think - I would interested to hear any other experiences including about any taxis/coaches that were put in place. And also what to do next time - I don't want to have to rely on Twitter!
 

najaB

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The XC service was only slightly delayed.
The GWR service was probably more delayed! Maybe I should claim from both for half each.
You claim for the journey you actually took, from the TOC with whom you were travelling when you encountered your initial delay.
 

swt_passenger

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It can hardly be quicker going via Paddington. As your starting point was somewhere between Paddington and Waterloo, did you never really intend to start at Waterloo?

This isn't as unlikely as you think. I often go Winchester > Reading > Paddington for certain onward destinations in London.

If you plan Bournemouth (BMH) or Southampton (or similar) to London Terminals for a weekday off-peak time on NRES you do get offered the XC/GWR option to Paddington as standard, it is slightly faster than one of the SWT fast services from BMH, and slightly slower than the other.

If the OP is on an Any Permitted fare he shouldn't come as a surprise if claiming to XC.
 
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bb21

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That first sentence of mine you quoted actually applied to the bit about intending to start from Waterloo, once factored in transfer time between Waterloo and Paddington, rather than being a general comment about any scenario.

Compensation in this sort of scenario is always going to be tricky, unfortunately.
 

swt_passenger

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That first sentence of mine you quoted actually applied to the bit about intending to start from Waterloo, once factored in transfer time between Waterloo and Paddington, rather than being a general comment about any scenario.

Ah OK, now that I've re-read it a couple of times that does make sense.
 

yorkie

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- Starting point was tube station between Paddington and Waterloo
- Intention was to leave at about 4pm
1600 Paddington - Reading arrived 1645
1646 Reading - Southampton departed 1651 and arrived 1751.

So, had you departed Paddington 1600, you would have got to Southampton only about 10mins late.

I don't see how you can claim a delay of 4 hours.

However I do see an itinerary departing Paddington at 1912, arriving SOU 2042. Without looking into the timings any further, if you undertook that itinerary and didn't arrive until 2200 you'd have a 100% delay repay claim for that journey.

If you weren't at Paddington in time to get that train the next itinerary involved departing PAD 1930 and getting to SOU at 2124, so if you got that and arrived 2200 that'd be a delay in the 30-60min range.
 

tannedfrog

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1600 Paddington - Reading arrived 1645
1646 Reading - Southampton departed 1651 and arrived 1751.

So, had you departed Paddington 1600, you would have got to Southampton only about 10mins late.
Thank you for checking this, I wish I'd known that at the time. It sounds like I chose the right route but didn't need to hang around waiting for the disruption to clear.

Is it easy to check what my journey time would have been if I'd tried to go from Waterloo at 1600?!
 

yorkie

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Providing the train was logged in the open data feeds it's easy to see the performance of a particular train.

OpenTrainTimes, Recent Train Times, Raildar etc could be used.

But it's not always easy to figure out what would have happened in reality because you may have been advised to take alternative trains. In this case all the direct trains were cancelled, but it looks like you'd have been able to take an Exeter train as far as Basingstoke, which would have made the 1724 to SOU, arriving there at 1815 (so approx 55mins delay)
 

tannedfrog

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Thanks for everyone's help. What I have learnt from this is that delay compensation should form a part of my decisions in future about which TOCs to use for my journeys.

While I may not have a valid claim this time, next time I should aim to travel with GWR and XC as their delay repay scheme is far superior to South West Trains'.
 

Hadders

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Alternatively, choose the service that will get ou to your destination in the most time effective way, rather than on the basis of how much you'll be able to claim in the event of a delay.
 

Flamingo

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Alternatively, choose the service that will get ou to your destination in the most time effective way, rather than on the basis of how much you'll be able to claim in the event of a delay.
True, but if part of the original plan is to claim the cost back if in any way possible...
 
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