New trains for East Midlands Franchise

[Kneedown]

Don't expect new trains for the local fleet. All the industry gossip says 170 which look a world apart from the 15x particularly internally and given a good tidy up will suit perfectly well.

170's are lovely units to drive. If only they could beef up the sluggish acceleration from a stand.

 

[anamyd]

170's are lovely units to drive. If only they could beef up the sluggish acceleration from a stand.

The hybrid conversion would help if that happens

 

[Bletchleyite]

The hybrid conversion would help if that happens

Or swap the transmission for the mechanical box fitted to Class 172s which is far better suited to local services.

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Full Fleet Replacement does not necessarily mean a complete fleet of new trains. Just new to the East Midlands Franchise. Those pacers in Iran would fit the definition!

The actual line-by-line enhancements listed on the DfT website all include "modern" and "air conditioned".

Do the Iranian Pacers meet this description?

But a serious question; what is "modern"?

Class 158s were built between 1989 and 1992, making the oldest 30 years old; in the context of the DfT press release, are these "modern"? Even the oldest 170s (which are being rumored for the East Midlands) are 1998 built; certainly, more modern that the 153s and 156s which will have to go because they're not air conditioned, but are they "modern"?

And - if they turn out to be West Midland's ex Central ones - as they are returning to their old stomping grounds, do they not also fail to meet the "new" claim made by the rail minister in the House of Commons as they do not meet the various definitions of this word mentioned herein?

 

[clagmonster]

What are the chances of Anglian 156s being drafted in as a temporary measure to allow some 153s to be withdrawn before the PRM deadline? They will be homeless at that point and are already compliant.

 

[anamyd]

Or swap the transmission for the mechanical box fitted to Class 172s which is far better suited to local services.

True, but that seems less likely.

 

[Impey0711]

Hopefully they may introduce Leicester - Lincoln service on a Sunday the local stopper would be ideal for me and others no doubt as it would make getting to Leicester so much easier to and from Sileby

 

[krus_aragon]

And - if they turn out to be West Midland's ex Central ones - as they are returning to their old stomping grounds, do they not also fail to meet the "new" claim made by the rail minister in the House of Commons as they do not meet the various definitions of this word mentioned herein?

Ah, but they'd still be new to the East Midlands franchise, as Sir Humphrey might point out.

Though if any of those ex Central 170s were originally ex Midland Mainline too, he'd be skating on thin ice with such an assertion. (But I think those ended up at CrossCountry instead.)

 

[bunnahabhain]

Hopefully they may introduce Leicester - Lincoln service on a Sunday the local stopper would be ideal for me and others no doubt as it would make getting to Leicester so much easier to and from Sileby

There will be an hourly Sunday service on the Ivanhoe route.

 

[whhistle]

Full Fleet Replacement does not necessarily mean a complete fleet of new trains. Just new to the East Midlands Franchise.

I perhaps should have added that it's clear no current stock operated by EMT is looking like it will be kept. I'm sure there was a suggestion earlier that the 158s would remain.

Is there any clue as to where all these Turbostars will come from?
Some thoughts:

The GA ones appear to be marked for Wales.

West Mids have 23 170s. Wales have 27 175s.
Combined = not enough to replace the 62 sprinter units currently operated by EMT.

Scotrail have 45 170s. I wonder if Sprinters will be moved up there in exchange for the 170s (harmonisation of fleet), added to the West Mids ones and you'd have a healthy stock of them. Although Wiki suggests 34 will be kept.

Cross Country could replace their 29 170s with the 4-car Voyagers.
Perhaps reforming the 220s to 3-car, bumping up the 221s to 5 and 6 car units.
But then you have the problem of them not fitting at Stansted.

 

[edwin_m]

There's also the section between Stoke and Kidsgrove where a 170 should be better at keeping out of the way than an anaemic 153.

 

[Roast Veg]

I perhaps should have added that it's clear no current stock operated by EMT is looking like it will be kept. I'm sure there was a suggestion earlier that the 158s would remain.

Is there any clue as to where all these Turbostars will come from?
Some thoughts:

The GA ones appear to be marked for Wales.

West Mids have 23 170s. Wales have 27 175s.
Combined = not enough to replace the 62 sprinter units currently operated by EMT.

Scotrail have 45 170s. I wonder if Sprinters will be moved up there in exchange for the 170s (harmonisation of fleet), added to the West Mids ones and you'd have a healthy stock of them. Although Wiki suggests 34 will be kept.

Cross Country could replace their 29 170s with the 4-car Voyagers.
Perhaps reforming the 220s to 3-car, bumping up the 221s to 5 and 6 car units.
But then you have the problem of them not fitting at Stansted.

Too much shuffling around for the sake of it. Remember that the EMT 153s work in pairs on almost all diagrams (thankfully), reducing the number of required sprinter replacements down to about the 50-55 mark. On a per-vehicle basis, the 153s and 156s add up to 51 carriages, where the WMT 170s are 52 carriages.

 

[Impey0711]

There will be an hourly Sunday service on the Ivanhoe route.

Any idea when it's starting?? When abellio take the line over??

 

[Mollman]

Combined = not enough to replace the 62 sprinter units currently operated by EMT.

Does that 62 include the 158s? Fewer will be needed as the 4 car section of the Liverpool - Norwich route will not be covered by EMT.

 

[Burgerstahl]

Remember that the EMT 153s work in pairs on almost all diagrams (thankfully), .

Do they ?

 

[bunnahabhain]

Too much shuffling around for the sake of it. Remember that the EMT 153s work in pairs on almost all diagrams (thankfully), reducing the number of required sprinter replacements down to about the 50-55 mark. On a per-vehicle basis, the 153s and 156s add up to 51 carriages, where the WMT 170s are 52 carriages.

The majority of 153s are actually meant to operate singly or with another unit for a greater part of the day, and in the summer the diagrams change to enable them to strengthen Skegness, usually resulting in any pairs on other routes running singly. For example there's a 153 that attaches to the 0605 Worksop, on return to Nottingham shunts onto the depot, normally it would remain as a spare until the 1750 Lincoln, but in the summer will do a trip to Skegness on the 1045 service. Similarly for example there's a pair of 153s that run on Matlock all day, both of these run singly in the AM before forming the 0753 to Newark. Where 153s run in pairs they will be split at some point during the day, or they're covering for an unavailable 156 or 158.

 

[mt4958]

Hope we'll find out on Wednesday what the new trains will be. Although emailing (accidentally or otherwise) the Stagecoach bid to Abellio seems pretty serious .

 

[whhistle]

Does that 62 include the 158s? Fewer will be needed as the 4 car section of the Liverpool - Norwich route will not be covered by EMT.

Yes, but good point that I didn't think of!

Remember that the EMT 153s work in pairs on almost all diagrams (thankfully)

Do they ?

No.
I've been on the single unit between Crewe and Derby many times.

 

[anamyd]

Hope we'll find out on Wednesday what the new trains will be. Although emailing (accidentally or otherwise) the Stagecoach bid to Abellio seems pretty serious .

emailing the Stagecoach bid to Abellio...?

 

[swt_passenger]

emailing the Stagecoach bid to Abellio...?

Came up in the thread about Stagecoach’s exclusion from the process here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...hise-competitions.180918/page-15#post-3968972

 

[anamyd]

Came up in the thread about Stagecoach’s exclusion from the process here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...hise-competitions.180918/page-15#post-3968972

thanks

 

[londonmidland]

I can’t say too much but expect the Angel HST sets to go a lot sooner than many of you expected.

Hopefully public information will become available imminently.

 

[43096]

I can’t say too much but expect the Angel HST sets to go a lot sooner than many of you expected.

Hopefully public information will become available imminently.

Don’t bet on it. The contract standstill period for the Abellio win has been extended and there is currently no end date for it.

 

[RealTrains07]

The majority of 153s are actually meant to operate singly or with another unit for a greater part of the day, and in the summer the diagrams change to enable them to strengthen Skegness, usually resulting in any pairs on other routes running singly. For example there's a 153 that attaches to the 0605 Worksop, on return to Nottingham shunts onto the depot, normally it would remain as a spare until the 1750 Lincoln, but in the summer will do a trip to Skegness on the 1045 service. Similarly for example there's a pair of 153s that run on Matlock all day, both of these run singly in the AM before forming the 0753 to Newark. Where 153s run in pairs they will be split at some point during the day, or they're covering for an unavailable 156 or 158.

Derby - Crewe is one line which needs a 2- 3 car train every hour rather than 1 car. 153s on that line are pretty jammed at times

 

[RealTrains07]

If EMR replace the 222s then some could be kept for use on lines like derby - crewe since 222s have already been used on that route before

 

[Meerkat]

The economics of operating 222s on Derby Crewe must be errr....challenging....

 

[Jozhua]

The economics of operating 222s on Derby Crewe must be errr....challenging....

Agreed, far better places for 222's. *ahem*Cross Country*ahem*
A 158 would be perfect for the line, offers 90mph running, good level of comfort, air con, 2 bogs, really can't sell it anymore!

Would be a definite upgrade from the 153's running currently.

 

[Kneedown]

A 158 would be perfect for the line, offers 90mph running,

90mph linespeeds would be needed for that benefit. Currently the route is 70mph max apart from the short sections between Derby and North Staffs Jct, and Stoke and Kidsgrove.

 

[Jozhua]

90mph linespeeds would be needed for that benefit. Currently the route is 70mph max apart from the short sections between Derby and North Staffs Jct, and Stoke and Kidsgrove.

Better than putting a 125mph capable DMU on though, something of which is in incredibly short supply in the UK!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Better than putting a 125mph capable DMU on though, something of which is in incredibly short supply in the UK!

All DMUs are in short supply at the moment, so you use what you can.