New trains for Southeastern?

[jnjkerbin]

Is this a SE twitterer getting the wrong end of the stick, or is the south east getting new trains?

"Hopefully the new rolling stock that has been ordered by the government, will see an improvement in this area"

https://twitter.com/Se_Railway/status/339777280064761857

 

[RobShipway]

"Hopefully the new rolling stock that has been ordered by the government, will see an improvement in this area"

Which new rolling stock, I am presuming that it is a cascade of 377's, when the 377/6's come on stream?

 

[bgstrowger]

Presumably the transfer of some routes to Thameslink will free up a few Class375s with 2+2 seating.

Or maybe they're putting new seats in the Class 375/9s and saying they're new

 

[MCR247]

Why would there be a cascade if the stock has been ordered for southern since they need it

 

[Class377/5]

Believe its more hope that the Thameslink new fleet will help tho its got limited connection to SE routes (Only Sevenoaks which isn't SE fleet anyway and peak only Maidstone East services) unless they are going to take on some 319s.

They are looking at more 395 IIRC.

 

[hwl]

Which new rolling stock, I am presuming that it is a cascade of 377's, when the 377/6's come on stream?

376/6 are to provide 10 car services on some metro routes on Southern so no cascade there other than the 456s to SWT.

The twitterist is possibly putting several bits of information together.
1) Some of the Thameslink services will replace existing Southeastern services thus Southeastern will have some "spare" rolling stock to Strengthen existing services. (When Siemens eventually deliver the 700s)

2) 12 car services were meant to be introduced on Southeastern metro/suburban services after NR did the power upgrades (almost done?) but no one has heard anything on the subject of the additional rolling stock required to do this for a long time so they might be in line for some of the order that Southern is doing for the government (Not the 377/6 or 377/7 orders) where it is unclear who the final TOC who actually gets the rolling stock is (but plenty of rumours - everyone assuming their local line!). It may be the re-franchising delays have pushed this to the Government (via Southern) to sort the new units rather than the next franchisee as possibly originally planned.

3) TOCs may just be going for narrow 2+2 seating on new stock to maximise standing space rather than 3+2 and are spinning this as positive as there is no longer a middle seat!

 

[SF-02]

I vaguely recall a SE manager (may even have been Horton) at an event a few months back saying they were lobbying for some new trains, possibly from the southern order. I think this could be so that class 465/9 networkers on medium distance routes with first class can instead work metro/sevenoaks/gillingham routes extending them to 12 car from 2014 (possibly later) once all platform lengthening and power upgrades, and Gravesend rebuild is complete.

 

[jnjkerbin]

I vaguely recall a SE manager (may even have been Horton) at an event a few months back saying they were lobbying for some new trains, possibly from the southern order. I think this could be so that class 465/9 networkers on medium distance routes with first class can instead work metro/sevenoaks/gillingham routes extending them to 12 car from 2014 (possibly later) once all platform lengthening and power upgrades, and Gravesend rebuild is complete.

Thats very interesting. Thank you

 

[jopsuk]

Is it Charing Cross, Cannon Street or both that limit a lot of the services to 10 car? If that could be solved, would it technically be possible to stick an extra (378 production-line built) TSO into the 376s? Or even an extra motor coach?

 

[craigwilson]

Is it Charing Cross, Cannon Street or both that limit a lot of the services to 10 car? If that could be solved, would it technically be possible to stick an extra (378 production-line built) TSO into the 376s? Or even an extra motor coach?

Probably Charing Cross - most of the Cannon Street services from my end of Kent are 12-car.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Is it Charing Cross, Cannon Street or both that limit a lot of the services to 10 car? If that could be solved, would it technically be possible to stick an extra (378 production-line built) TSO into the 376s? Or even an extra motor coach?

Charing Cross is limited, Canon Street is fine. I believe they are/were planning to fit SDO on the 465s.

 

[D365]

Is it Charing Cross, Cannon Street or both that limit a lot of the services to 10 car? If that could be solved, would it technically be possible to stick an extra (378 production-line built) TSO into the 376s? Or even an extra motor coach?

Charing Cross is limited, Canon Street is fine. I believe they are/were planning to fit SDO on the 465s.

I do recall mutterings of a TSO batch to extend the 376 fleet to 6-car units, with a few more units if necessary. Related to a LO takeover, whether partial or full. Wikipedia claims the type to be at risk of "being anomalous within a network being reconfigured to 12-coach running".

SDO is being fitted to the Networker fleet. *Just 465, it seems.

 

[Mintona]

First I've heard about SDO being fitted to the 465s. Not sure where this information is coming from? Not that I don't believe you, just wondering if there was a confirmed source.

I like the idea of some shiny new trains to play with as well though!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would anyone with a more technical knowledge know if it was possible to order more 375s? Or would it have to be 377s as the 375 production line is closed? And if it was to be 377s, would they work in multiple with a 375?

 

[D365]

Both I have read on the forum, the 465 SDO treatment was announced in some official document - exactly which I cannot recall at this time!

Production could be reopened with a large enough order, don't know how many more sets might be desired. A TSO batch could continue from the 378 batch at Derby (not contractually/financially obviously as TfL have closed their deal); these are similar enough? 376 was designed to accept a 6th car IIRC.

 

[Mintona]

I'd heard about the possible 376 extension but had also heard it had been put on ice lately. 465 SDO seems a good idea, if only for Woolwich Dockyard station!

 

[Mikey C]

My understanding is that due to the intensive rebuilding work at London Bridge, frequencies will have to be reduced, so 12 car trains will be essential to maintain capacity. On that basis, then something will have to be done with the 376s.

 

[Bald Rick]

My understanding is that due to the intensive rebuilding work at London Bridge, frequencies will have to be reduced, so 12 car trains will be essential to maintain capacity. On that basis, then something will have to be done with the 376s.

SE frequencies inbound to London during the peak are likely to be the same. But the timetable has yet to be written.

 

[Class377/5]

Seems the DfT is planning on some changes from December 2014 including changes to the FCC/Southeastern services.

Bit late now to do anything with the 376, the already announced, funded and ordered 378 lengthening wont start to kick in until Dec 2014, simply isn't time to get the extra carriages sorted for the 376 now.

 

[jnjkerbin]

My understanding is that due to the intensive rebuilding work at London Bridge, frequencies will have to be reduced, so 12 car trains will be essential to maintain capacity. On that basis, then something will have to be done with the 376s.

I thought frequencies were to be more or less the same, but with some trains not calling?

 

[southern442]

Just to say, does anyone know what classification the desirocities will be given?

 

[MCR247]

The 700 range apparently (if not 700s themselves)

 

[Class377/5]

Just to say, does anyone know what classification the desirocities will be given?

700/0 for 12 car units
700/1 for 8 car units

 

[Class2ldn]

Unfortunately the union havent agreed to 12 car trains as southeastern have just turned around and said we WIll be driving them without any consultation. The union have turned around and told them I dont think so , so at the moment there is a bit of a stalemate.
The 12 cars are hoped to be started by september .

 

[theageofthetra]

If anything is done with the appalling 376's will they ever be retrofitted with Aircon? How Daft ever allowed a brand new train to be procured in 20004/5 without it & with totally inadequate ventilation I will never know.

 

[SF-02]

Unfortunately the union havent agreed to 12 car trains as southeastern have just turned around and said we WIll be driving them without any consultation. The union have turned around and told them I dont think so , so at the moment there is a bit of a stalemate.
The 12 cars are hoped to be started by september .

Interesting cheers. That's the Sevenoaks line initially isn't it?

Any idea when they hope to start 12 car on other lines, and about SDO on the 465s?

 

[Mintona]

I really don't think there are any plans for SDO on 465s. Where is this coming from? It'd be a nightmare to try and retrospectively fit.

 

[43074]

How Daft ever allowed a brand new train to be procured in 20004/5 without it & with totally inadequate ventilation I will never know.

££££.

Air Conditioning costs a lot of money, Pressure Ventilation (which I think they have) does not.

 

[cj_1985]

££££.

Air Conditioning costs a lot of money, Pressure Ventilation (which I think they have) does not.

IIRC the reason no A/C was ever fitted to the class 376 was because the units were intended for use on services with regular stops, and minimal travel time between stops where Air conditioning wouldn't be as effective as it would be on services with less stops/longer time between stops.

and before its asked, the reason that the 376s were specified without a toilet modules was also due to the intended use of the units, and the promise of improved toilet facilities at stations being served by the units.

 

[notadriver]

378s have air conditioning and stop more frequently than 376s.

 

[Class2ldn]

376s can only be used on services upto an hour as they have no toilet but as you know Gravesend is over an hour but they got special permission to run to it. Saying that they have run down to Gillingham on the sly before lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just to add the 465s have a sort of sdo where u can open the front coaches excluding the last coach or vice versa but its never been used.