New Zealand - Northern Explorer and Coastal Pacific

[TheBigD]

Whilst researching for my replanned (from 2021) New Zealand trip, noticed that following their suspension during covid, neither of the long distant trains are planned for return, leaving just the Tranz-Alpine and local services around the cities.

Save Our National Passenger Rail Network

Tell KiwiRail and the Government that you support keeping our national passenger rail network by signing the #SaveOurTrains petition https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/save-our-national-passenger-rail-network

our.actionstation.org.nz

The plan to replace them seems to be a multi-day tour with off train activities...

Even Greater Journeys for 2022!

Over the coming months, we will be launching our new rail experiences in New Zealand, find out more about what's in store!

www.greatjourneysofnz.co.nz

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Shame about that. I went on the Southerners from Christchurch to Dunedin years ago, it was very good but only 2 carriages. The Tranzalpine was very busy a few days later with 8 carriages I think.

 

[185]

True disgrace their plans to replace the affordable 'ordinary' train, with some £2000 irritating wine & flatulence experience like Australia has on the Perth & Darwins which financially excludes the majority of travellers - especially those who are looking for a cheaper alternative than driving.

Should be 'parliamentary' one-a-week trains Auck-Welly & Picton-Chch-Dunedin until numbers return.

 

[williamn]

The death of rail transport in New Zealand is very depressing, especially in a small country which is known for being environmentally friendly. I did the 'Overlander' as it was then called, from Auckland to Wellington, about 10 years ago and it was absolutely fantastic.

 

[railwaytrack]

Whilst researching for my replanned (from 2021) New Zealand trip, noticed that following their suspension during covid, neither of the long distant trains are planned for return, leaving just the Tranz-Alpine and local services around the cities.

Save Our National Passenger Rail Network

Tell KiwiRail and the Government that you support keeping our national passenger rail network by signing the #SaveOurTrains petition https://our.actionstation.org.nz/petitions/save-our-national-passenger-rail-network

our.actionstation.org.nz

The plan to replace them seems to be a multi-day tour with off train activities...

Even Greater Journeys for 2022!

Over the coming months, we will be launching our new rail experiences in New Zealand, find out more about what's in store!

www.greatjourneysofnz.co.nz

What a complete and utter joke the New Zealand railway network is. Auckland and Wellington are the top two largest cities in New Zealand and about an eight hour drive and are pretty much the same exact distance as London to Edinburgh is. But yet they have no trains. Even when they did have trains it was once a day at the very most. They should have an hourly train service at the bare minimum. London to Edinburgh is at least hourly (and often half hourly at many times) and is the same journey (pretty much the same exact distance and two very large cities) so Auckland to Wellington ought to be the same. I would expect this in the USA but not New Zealand which i thought was better when it came to public transport.

 

[the sniper]

Auckland and Wellington are the top two largest cities in New Zealand and about an eight hour drive and are pretty much the same exact distance as London to Edinburgh is. But yet they have no trains. Even when they did have trains it was once a day at the very most. They should have an hourly train service at the bare minimum. London to Edinburgh is at least hourly (and often half hourly at many times) and is the same journey (pretty much the same exact distance and two very large cities) so Auckland to Wellington ought to be the same.

While there should be a single daily day and night train each way, they're really not the same journey, for the reason you highlight in your first sentence. The train between Auckland and Wellington takes over 10 hours, rather than the 4 hours or so of London to Edinburgh... The two aren't comparable.

 

[railwaytrack]

While there should be a single daily day and night train each way, they're really not the same journey, for the reason you highlight in your first sentence. The train between Auckland and Wellington takes over 10 hours, rather than the 4 hours or so of London to Edinburgh... The two aren't comparable.

Why are the trains so slow? Seeing that London to Edinburgh and Auckland to Wellington are the same distance why does one take four hours and one take ten hours? I am guessing that the line speed must be very low? If so would it not be possible to upgrade the line and the trains so that the journey time could be much reduced to maybe four or five hours?

 

[williamn]

Narrow gauge and mountainous terrain.

Pleased to read the trains have now been saved and will resume in September.

 

[TheBigD]

Pleased to read the trains have now been saved and will resume in September.

The Man in Seat 61: What's new on the site

News page on the Man in Seat 61 website

www.seat61.com

 

[trebor79]

Why are the trains so slow? Seeing that London to Edinburgh and Auckland to Wellington are the same distance why does one take four hours and one take ten hours? I am guessing that the line speed must be very low? If so would it not be possible to upgrade the line and the trains so that the journey time could be much reduced to maybe four or five hours?

I did the Overlander about 15 years ago (as far as National Park anyway).
It's narrow gauge, twisty and mountainous. Long sections are single line. There are few population centres outside of Auckland (and they are quite small). There's absolutely no way it would support an hourly service. The entire population of NZ is about 5m people, or a little over half the population of London!
Most of the intermediate stations outside of the Auckland and Wellington urban areas closed a very long time ago and have been removed.
I don't think you could speed it up without spending a LOT of money.

The NZ rail network is based around freight, with a few suburban commuter routes and the odd long-distance passenger train as an afterthought/nuisance/tourist attraction. Similar to the US.

It is a shame in some ways, but understandable in others. The Overlander was great, even had a buffet car with home made cakes and pies, and the relatively low speed made it possible to savour the scenery.

 

[MarkSudbury]

You'll be able to travel on Mark 2 coaches if you take any regional commuter service in Wellington

 

[hexagon789]

Why are the trains so slow? Seeing that London to Edinburgh and Auckland to Wellington are the same distance why does one take four hours and one take ten hours? I am guessing that the line speed must be very low? If so would it not be possible to upgrade the line and the trains so that the journey time could be much reduced to maybe four or five hours?

Linespeed is 110km/h max currently (was 70mph in pre-metric days).

 

[railfan99]

Linespeed is 110km/h max currently (was 70mph in pre-metric days).

But 110kmh is not permitted, or achievable, on much of the route.

 

[hexagon789]

But 110kmh is not permitted, or achievable, on much of the route.

I don't doubt it, but it was asked how low linespeed was and it is still 110km/h even if a lot of the locomotives are only passed for 100 or 105km/h. I know NZR used to have a system whereby each section of the line was prescribed a linespeed and then within that they had what were described as "curve" speeds essentially the equivalent of PSRs on GB railways, with warning boards and markers for curve speeds and then a marker for where normal speed could be resumed but no marker to say what the resumed normal speed was. I presume either the driver had to know the speeds or it was given in a working timetable or sheet of some description they had laid out akin to a "fiche" on SNCF, working TT sheet on DB/SBB.

 

[AussieJasmin]

The on paper distance is about the same, but Kiwi rail alignments are every bit as bad as ours, but also narrow gauge. I've never done the route, but I'd guess that London to Edinburgh doesn't involve a spiral and hundreds of KMs of single track, narrow gauge line with numerous curves under 300m radius and unguarded crossings. Also bear in mind that while Auckland and Welly are the two main cities, Auckland is <2m, and Welly is only around 210,000. Along the route there's only two other towns of any real size - Hamilton which is near Auckland and Palmy, near Welly. Between the two is pretty much empty.

So yep, the service is terrible and genuinely neds improving, but the idea of hourly trains running at 200km/h is never going to be viable. The main problem I think is that the Northern Explorer runs to a daytime schedule. Given the lack of any real intermediate stops of significance, this is a total waste of time. It'd be much better to time it for an evening departure from either end (~8pm), with a stop at Palmy/Hamilton pick-up only stop ~10pm, for a 7am arrival at the other end (5am drop-off only at Palmy/Hamilton). Have proper en-suite sleeping cars, a basic buffet car open through the night (like the XPT does) and make it a moto-rail service (between the termini only) to maximise the convenience.

You could run a daytime train as well, but focus on the night-time one. You could even have a few of the motorail and sleeper cars also continue onto the Interislander ferry (which is run by Kiwirail and is rail capable and carries railfreight regularly) and be attached to a connecting service running onto Christchurch (and vice versa, obvs)

None of this would require any massive infrastructure upgrades, just the rolling stock and political will to do it.

The real tragedy though is the total lack of any pax service whatsoever between Auckland-Hamilton-Tauranga / Auckland-Hamilton-Rotorua. This really should be decent service. It's the key population triangle of NZ and also have relatively decent rail alignments. This route really should be electrified and run on an hourly schedule, with the southern termini alternating between Tauranga and Rotorua. Same story for the Welly-Palmy-Whanganui

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's 37 years ago now (1985), but I much enjoyed a "Silver Fern" railcar trip between Auckland and Wellington.
Complete with lunch break at Taihape.
There was double-headed steam at Taumarunui the previous week too.
Magnificent country.
I think it's the deep gorges that are crossed which make the trip special, plus the Raurimu spiral and the views of the central volcanos.