Aictos
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 10,403
Thanks.
You’re welcome
Thanks.
Meanwhile, over on FB and Twitter there are people accusing Starmer and even Nandy of being Blarite right-wingers and that it's more important for the party to maintain its ideological purity than sell out and gain power.
We're dooooomed!!!!
The more I see of Starmer the more I don’t think he would be the one to revive Labour’s fortunes. Seeing him speak I pick up the same coldness which did it for Theresa May. I don’t see Starmer reconnecting with the places Labour have lost.
I think the only one who would land any sort of punch would be Nandy simply because she seems to have a full understanding of what needs to be done to regain ground, but she seems to be the one least likely to be picked by the Corbyn cult.
One way or another it seems like it might be worth putting a bet on Long-Bailey getting it.
And the chances of Labour under a Long-Bailey leadership of forming a government get worse.
Of those standing, Keir Starmer seems the one most likely to gain Labour voters
How many election defeats will it take before the militants accept that the public does not want their outdated ideas ?
Infinite. In their view they are right and the electorate are wrong, and no progress will be made until this mindset changes. Listening to some of the rubbish emanating from the naïve young Corbyn worshippers there is a *long* way to go before they even turn the corner towards looking the right way.
With respect, I find the argument about 'naïve young Corbyn worshippers' a little patronising (I'm not one, I am way too far ahead of passing for 'young').
Although the term 'Marxism' is used as a perogative by the ignorant, Marx recognised that capitalism was very good for developing economies ; but disagreed that it was good for developed economies. In fact if you look around, you may argue that many of the woes of Western economies are due to the endless search for the capitalist obsession with economic growth (dotcom boom and bust, banking crisis destroying capital, endless consumption causing climate catastrophe).
Since 'young naïve people' don't see the benefits of capitalism in modern society or at least question them, it is perhaps incumbent on you to point out what those are rather than disparagingly dismissing people's valid concerns.
With respect, I find the argument about 'naïve young Corbyn worshippers' a little patronising (I'm not one, I am way too far ahead of passing for 'young').
Although the term 'Marxism' is used as a perogative by the ignorant, Marx recognised that capitalism was very good for developing economies ; but disagreed that it was good for developed economies. In fact if you look around, you may argue that many of the woes of Western economies are due to the endless search for the capitalist obsession with economic growth (dotcom boom and bust, banking crisis destroying capital, endless consumption causing climate catastrophe).
Since 'young naïve people' don't see the benefits of capitalism in modern society or at least question them, it is perhaps incumbent on you to point out what those are rather than disparagingly dismissing people's valid concerns.
With respect, I find the argument about 'naïve young Corbyn worshippers' a little patronising (I'm not one, I am way too far ahead of passing for 'young').
Although the term 'Marxism' is used as a perogative by the ignorant, Marx recognised that capitalism was very good for developing economies ; but disagreed that it was good for developed economies. In fact if you look around, you may argue that many of the woes of Western economies are due to the endless search for the capitalist obsession with economic growth (dotcom boom and bust, banking crisis destroying capital, endless consumption causing climate catastrophe).
Since 'young naïve people' don't see the benefits of capitalism in modern society or at least question them, it is perhaps incumbent on you to point out what those are rather than disparagingly dismissing people's valid concerns.
If a young person cannot see what capitalism brings them in the UK, then they aren’t looking very hard.
Personally I think things run slightly deeper than this, in that it’s noticeable how certain political leaders - Corbyn being one, Sturgeon another - attempt to garner the young vote. I can’t help but find this slightly sinister in that young people are as a group clearly more likely to be impressionable simply due to possessing less life experience. Ever had that feeling of being used?!
Go on then ... don't be shy.
We need a mixed economy, balanced in the right way, not the current 'communism for the rich, capitalism for the poor' that is ever prevalent and will doom this country even more after the Brexit nonsense.Go on then ... don't be shy.
Well, you could look at it that way with young people having less 'life experience' or you could look at them being more receptive to different ideas, not having suffered so many years of indoctrination into the superiority of a system which is principally designed to serve a few (and getting fewer) and stifle dissent.
It would be like asking me to describe everything I see in one day. Pointless.
Having said that, those indoctrinated older people seemed to break ranks with the EU referendum. It was the youngsters who wanted the status quo to prevail!
Why pointless? You could start with people living on the streets, foodbanks, the homeless, awful private accomodation etc etc...or do you not see any of this?
If a young person cannot see what capitalism brings them in the UK, then they aren’t looking very hard.
Go on then ... don't be shy.
It would be like asking me to describe everything I see in one day. Pointless.
Why pointless? You could start with people living on the streets, foodbanks, the homeless, awful private accomodation etc etc...or do you not see any of this?
Surely that’s not all you see.
If the benefits of capitalism are so self-evident, why are you having such trouble in citing them ?
Arglwydd Golau rightly pointed out a list of things which he sees which perhaps you see as 'benefits of capitalism'
It might help if you gave the matter some thought before posting.
If the benefits of capitalism are so self-evident, why are you having such trouble in citing them ?
Arglwydd Golau rightly pointed out a list of things which he sees which perhaps you see as 'benefits of capitalism'
It might help if you gave the matter some thought before posting.
You’d not be posting gibber on here if it wasn’t for capitalism..... it’s not perfect, but then no system is.
That's a very idealistic view of what capitalism does. There is a vast wage disparity between different jobs, but the same could not be said in terms of effort. Minimum wage jobs do not necessarily require fractions of 1% of the effort of a CEO job (to take an extreme example).I for one would rather have a capitalist system which empowers people to make their own decisions and create wealth based on effort, rather than a planned system where the government makes many of the decisions which affect people's lives. I don't see why people should be recompensed for doing little or nothing.
If the benefits of capitalism are so self-evident, why are you having such trouble in citing them ?
Arglwydd Golau rightly pointed out a list of things which he sees which perhaps you see as 'benefits of capitalism'
It might help if you gave the matter some thought before posting.
A capitalist economy has obviously allowed us to develop to the level we’re at now.
However, us and the government should realise that capitalism promotes inequality and that the state should step in to try and remedy that.
That's a very idealistic view of what capitalism does. There is a vast wage disparity between different jobs, but the same could not be said in terms of effort. Minimum wage jobs do not necessarily require fractions of 1% of the effort of a CEO job (to take an extreme example).
It also allows quite a lazy view that poor people are poor because they haven't put the effort in.
Do you know what capitalism is ? Your statement makes no sense.
Ummm, it seems I misjudged you. I thought you had the intelligence to understand. Apologies for getting that bit wrong.