Nicolas Winterton

[ralphchadkirk]

What does everyone think of his comments about first class travel?

I have to say I agree with him. FC is a different place, quieter more comfortable, with laptop sockets and tables which makes it easier to work.

 

[Dai.]

'Standard Class passengers are a different type of people'

I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were so 19th century Nicolas.

I refuse to believe that first class and second class people are different types of people, if he wants to travel first class then he can pay for it like the rest of us instead of using our money so he can sit and insult us.

I dislike him.

 

[mrcheek]

I detest Nicholas Winterton.
I still cant forget how he continually spoke out against Margaret Thatcher, then when she was voted out, he suddenly changed sides, started defending her, and criticising those who forced her out.

But here I think he has a point.
You cant work or get peace and quiet in 2nd class. MPs should be allowed to go 1st class where it is available.

 

[devon_metro]

'Standard Class passengers are a different type of people'

I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were so 19th century Nicolas.

I refuse to believe that first class and second class people are different types of people, if he wants to travel first class then he can pay for it like the rest of us instead of using our money so he can sit and insult us.

I dislike him.

Might I suggest you hear the whole interview, to give it some context before siding with the sensationalist media. He goes on to clarify that the different type of people mean children and people making noise. Which in my opinion is perfectly justified. Some of the characters found on trains are bloody irritating.

 

[CarterUSM]

I read the whole interview, and I think what he says is more or less true, though he could've put himself across with more tact. He doesn't really care anyway, I believe he is stepping down at the next election.

 

[furryfeet]

Mr Winterton and his fellow MP's have missed a trick here...

Why don't they get DAFT to force ATOC and the TOC's to
a) reduce the 1st class prices on the Anytime fares, which are usually the onlywalk on fares available. At present one needs to be on expenses to afford them !
b) introduce 1st class Saver tickets on all routes which offer 1st class
c) or even hit them all at once and reduce the All Line Rover ( I have probably had a rant about this one before, seeing what a quango ATOC actually is )

then
a) the MP's can, as they reasonably state use the time in 1st class to do productive Commons related work and also be claiming less on expenses at the same time
b) the general public would benefit by lower fares, so that they would actually use 1st class and put bums on seats !

 

[yorkie]

c) or even hit them all at once and reduce the All Line Rover ( I have probably had a rant about this one before, seeing what a quango ATOC actually is )

The more that anyone connected with Government mentions the ALR, the more ATOC fear the publicity that it is getting and the more they increase the price. Remember what happened when Adonis used an ALR and the papers said it was better value than a couple of Anytimes on many routes? ATOC immediately bumped up the price. :roll:

 

[furryfeet]

what the MP's should do is then strip ATOC of the ability to set fares and then set those such fares e.g. rovers directly from Merstham Street.

Send Mr Winterton on a crusade to set this up, before he steps down at the forthcoming election.

 

[royaloak]

Why does he need to work on the train, I thought that was what the second home was for! Of course if the second home is just so they can doss down if there isnt a train they can get to their primary home then what is wrong with Hotels, I mean they are good enough for the "other type of people" he talks of so warmly!

 

[GB]

Might I suggest you hear the whole interview, to give it some context before siding with the sensationalist media. He goes on to clarify that the different type of people mean children and people making noise. Which in my opinion is perfectly justified. Some of the characters found on trains are bloody irritating.

That maybe, but he's in public office paid for by tax payers. He also chose the job he's in so if he wants to sit in first class then he can dip into his own pockets!.

 

[Oswyntail]

Virtually every employer who sends staff by train will pay for 1st Class over a certain level of management (and often further down). This is for exactly the reason this chap says - they are expected to work on the train, and the atmosphere in Standard (at least on Leeds/London) makes that pretty impossible. This is nothing to do with expenses, second homes or duck houses, and is not a "perk". The perk would be not having to work outside working hours:roll:. And the reporting of the interview was obviously intended to make MPs look like scroungers - which the vast majority are not.

 

[stuartmoss]

Winterton is a typical Tory.

 

[Mojo]

Completely agree with him for he is, in effect, a manager and thus has the requirements to work on the move.

 

[142094]

The best thing to do would be for MPs to get no expenses and have to pay for it out of their own pocket. That was the general public would not feel ripped off. After all they are there to serve us, not feather their own nests.

 

[royaloak]

But they have to travel in the course of their work, not commute to and from it.

 

[142094]

Fair enough, but a couple of questions:

1) How much work do they actually do on a train?
2) Could this work not be done somewhere else, or at a different time?
3) The work being done, does this produce the same or greater value (in £) of output than if work was being done in standard class?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

A Member living far from Westminster (as you do) is likely to be spending 6 hrs or more on a train if its a single day there and back. That makes it about the ONLY time that some messages can be dealy with and reports read and commented on.

Not all Members travel 1st. even on long distance journeys.

 

[142094]

Fair enough, but I doubt whether an MP for Newcastle would do that journey in a single day, either would stay in his house up here or in the 2nd home down there.

I suppose it depends on how you work - me I could probably get the same amount of work done in 1st as well as standard class, but I guess others couldn't. Then again I bet some MPs would travel in 1st class and not do any work at all.

 

[Nick W]

I really don't think that the real issue is that MPs travel first class on trains; I think we can accept that the working conditions are better in First Class and that we should should do all we can, where the cost is reasonable, to assist MPs in their vital job. In addition, the extra expense pales in comparison with vast the subsidy given to the railway in one form another, so I don't really think that the cost is an issue.

I think the real issue is the suggestion that standard class travellers are a "different type of people" and have "a different outlook on life". I'm afraid the "honourable" Winterton didn't simply claim that this meant that there would be children present, or that the noise levels might be any higher, but made accusations that people in standard class would be more likely to stare over his shoulder, more willing to accept standing up for a journey and were probably travelling for leisure rather than important business. If this isn't insulting enough, one thing he said that attacked me and should hit anyone else here that travels standard class very personally was, I quote "People in standard class may be reading a book -- but I doubt very much that they are undertaking serious work or engaged in study of any kind. People in standard class have completely different way of thinking to those in 1st class, who undertake serious thinking and important work".

I am totally outraged that he could be so insulting, so condescending and so arrogant to the hundreds of people who work so hard to attain worthwhile knowledge and contribute to this world that cannot afford first class. I could list many people here whom I know are far more intelligent that him, including a supervisor who is regularly consulted by people at the top of Rolls Royce and has been consulted by NASA in the past, who would travel by standard class simply because they have chosen a worthwhile but less remunerating pursuit, and cannot afford the extra first class fare.

I haven't yet heard any comment from David Cameron, but if he isn't quick to discipline or even sack David Winterton, I would urge everyone here not remember this incident whenever Cameron talks about how the Tory party has changed, and to consider whether what he says is anything but spin.

 

[142094]

Apart from the price of a ticket and legroom, what is the difference between 1st class and the quiet coach? Surely he could do his work here, yet save the taxpayer some money.

 

[Ivo]

Um, a table? A socket? Comfortable seating?

Oh wait. All of these exist to an adequate degree on most major routes away :roll:

Anyone else ever thought that some MPs deliberately travel First Class to avoid being confronted by their electorate? Mind you, I'm sure I've seen pictures of Gordon Brown on the Underground...

 

[142094]

Perhaps we should get a train solely for MPs. I'm sure poshbakerloo would recommend a Pacer for them!

 

[Lampshade]

We arrange for a 141 to be reimported

142057 is pretty grim, should do the job just nicely

EDIT: 500th post

 

[poshbakerloo]

1st Class is the divide between screaming children, rowdy chavs, over crowding and the nice calm serenity of first class!

 

[Mojo]

1st Class is the divide between screaming children, rowdy chavs, over crowding and the nice calm serenity of first class!

Only on InterCity routes; on suburban routes it's exactly the opposite!

 

[142094]

1st Class is the divide between screaming children, rowdy chavs, over crowding and the nice calm serenity of first class!

"Tar" and "brush" come to mind. I've been on plenty of trains where standard class is near enough empty, quiet and with no screaming children or chavs.