No working toilet on the train.

[Lurcheroo]

TFW doing the same sending 2-car sets on 3 hour journeys to Manchester with one toilet that locks itself out.

The solution is retrofitting bioreactor toilets. They becoming proven in Europe and only require water, and empty only water onto the track with the err... compostable brickettes being emptied every two-three months.

Has certainly happened plenty but is certainly improving, just in relation to 197’s seeing many more 3 and 4 cars doing these services which both have 2 toilets. Once they can run the 5 cars that will be 3 toilets.
The MK4’s have a toilet per coach (how it should be IMO).

I’m surprised that northerns 3car 195’s have just one toilet but TFW’s 3 car 197’s have the extra ‘small loo’.

 

[Jamiescott1]

On Friday there was an 8 car gwr electrostar doing the Didcot Paddington rotation.
The gwr app said all toilets on this train were out of order.

 

[Trainman40083]

I was on a Leeds - Manchester Victoria 195 the other afternoon where the toilet was seemingly out of action and the guard sorted out a pit stop at Hebden Bridge for anyone wanting to spend a penny

Even those who didn’t need to spend a penny ended up potentially earning a penny as it then meant a 15 minute delay repay claim

Can the broken toilet be sorted at a larger station (say Leeds) prior to departure or is it a depot job only?

Maybe the waste tank was full. That would be a depot job.

 

[Meerkat]

On Friday there was an 8 car gwr electrostar doing the Didcot Paddington rotation.
The gwr app said all toilets on this train were out of order.

That should be a refund.

 

[driverd]

Even those who didn’t need to spend a penny ended up potentially earning a penny as it then meant a 15 minute delay repay claim

Although that could be seen as an added bonus, I personally think its very appropriate - a (small) partial refund to compensate for the lack of facilities, to my mind, is just good customer service. Its just a tad unfortunate it has to be at the expense of (potentially) making a connection though.

Good work by the guard non the less - its absolutely the right thing to do (even though there's sometimes a pressure to keep the train to time).

As for the ability to fix the problem, as others have said it depends on what the root cause was. If the train needed water topping up (that's most often the cause if its not a mechanical failure of the toilet/toilet door), it can easily be rectified. Other reasons (as a friend had the misfortune of experiencing the other day), could be to do with people's inability to aim (with both bodily functions - reportedly quite a horror show in the toilet, which rapidly was locked out).

 

[trainophile]

On Friday there was an 8 car gwr electrostar doing the Didcot Paddington rotation.
The gwr app said all toilets on this train were out of order.

Hope they do better on Weds when I'm on a GWR from Newton Abbot to Penzance!

 

[Halwynd]

For quite some time, given the increasingly unreliable and inadequate provision of on-board toilets, I have deliberately dehydrated myself before starting any reasonably long distance journey.

 

[trainophile]

For quite some time, given the increasingly unreliable and inadequate provision of on-board toilets, I have deliberately dehydrated myself before starting any reasonably long distance journey.

Not good. I often mentally think when they are telling us to carry a bottle of water "you provide the toilets and I'll bring the water".

 

[Somewhere]

I think the Disability Regulations require trains with no working toilets to be taken out of service. So expect people to be terfed out in the middle of nowhere when these things happen in future

 

[Halwynd]

Not good. I often mentally think when they are telling us to carry a bottle of water "you provide the toilets and I'll bring the water".

Yes, there's a complete disconnect isn't there.

 

[Meerkat]

I think the Disability Regulations require trains with no working toilets to be taken out of service. So expect people to be terfed out in the middle of nowhere when these things happen in future

If there are no toilets there is no discrimination, so I don’t see that being true.

 

[Somewhere]

If there are no toilets there is no discrimination, so I don’t see that being true.

Well, there is, as it means those who may need to use the toilet frequently cannot use the train. Bit like saying if the lifts are out of order, everyone has to use the stairs, when clearly those who have difficulty walking cannot

 

[EZJ]

I agree that trains should all have working toilets but on about 50% of the occasions I investigate a toilet not working it's down to misuse such as vandalism, stuffing paper towels down it or last week a person who didn't understand how open/close buttons worked so started kicking the door resulting in it being so damaged the toilet couldn't be used.

 

[dk1]

I think the Disability Regulations require trains with no working toilets to be taken out of service. So expect people to be terfed out in the middle of nowhere when these things happen in future

I can’t ever see that happening. Common sense would prevail and it would only come out of traffic at a suitable location.

Well, there is, as it means those who may need to use the toilet frequently cannot use the train. Bit like saying if the lifts are out of order, everyone has to use the stairs, when clearly those who have difficulty walking cannot

And you wouldn’t see a station closed simply as a lift doesn’t work.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Well, there is, as it means those who may need to use the toilet frequently cannot use the train. Bit like saying if the lifts are out of order, everyone has to use the stairs, when clearly those who have difficulty walking cannot

You do realise plenty of trains on the network operate with no toilets and always have done? Try being stuck on any swr service on the Guildford new line for over an hour needing to go on a 40 year old train with no facilities.

I do agree it's unacceptable that they don't have toilets but we've just built the Elizabeth line brand new with none even though it has some pretty lengthy journeys, so it clearly isn't a priority unfortunately for the powers that be

 

[Somewhere]

I can’t ever see that happening. Common sense would prevail and it would only come out of traffic at a suitable location.



And you wouldn’t see a station closed simply as a lift doesn’t work.

Not allowed to use common sense.
And the only reason we don't see stations closed due to no lifts is because those in charge haven't thought of it as a reason to close a station yet...

You do realise plenty of trains on the network operate with no toilets and always have done? Try being stuck on any swr service on the Guildford new line for over an hour needing to go on a 40 year old train with no facilities.

I do agree it's unacceptable that they don't have toilets but we've just built the Elizabeth line brand new with none even though it has some pretty lengthy journeys, so it clearly isn't a priority unfortunately for the powers that be

Yes, but if there's no toilet on the train for it not to work, you cannot take the train out of service because it isn't working!

 

[dk1]

Not allowed to use common sense.
And the only reason we don't see stations closed due to no lifts is because those in charge haven't thought of it as a reason to close a station yet...


Yes, but if there's no toilet on the train for it not to work, you cannot take the train out of service because it isn't working!

You’re full of positivity today

 

[Somewhere]

Its the mentality of those in charge of those running the railway

 

[The_train_kid]

Imagine my shock horror last night that the last Northern train of the day to Bradford had no working toilet on it.

Is this acceptable? Especially when it’s a two-hour journey?

At least one person ended up urinating on the train by the seats that are supposed to carry the cycle rack.

I guess if you've got to go you've got to go but why wasn't this train taken out of service?

I know it's the last train of the night but surely things can't be that bad at Northern that there's no working toilet.

I would make a complaint to the line operator and hopefully get your money back, or at least part of it
Was this told to you when you boarded?

 

[skyhigh]

I think the Disability Regulations require trains with no working toilets to be taken out of service.

They don't. Definitely, 100%, don't.

 

[Somewhere]

They don't. Definitely, 100%, don't.

Why aren't 466s allowed to run on their own, then?

 

[43066]

Why aren't 466s allowed to run on their own, then?

Because they don’t have universal toilets. There’s no requirement for trains to have toilets but, if they do, they must be complaint with PRM legislation is my understanding.

 

[dk1]

Its the mentality of those in charge of those running the railway

I’ve got used to such things over the years. I just smile & wave these days.

 

[skyhigh]

Why aren't 466s allowed to run on their own, then?

Because they don't have PRM-compliant toilets. If the toilets were locked out so there were no facilities available at all there would be no issue. Same with the 'PRM-light' 153s that TfW have.

For obvious reasons, running with the only toilet out of use will be avoided if at all possible. But I can promise that there is nothing at all in legislation that prevents a train running with no toilets in working order.

 

[ComUtoR]

Why aren't 466s allowed to run on their own, then?

They rarely run on their own anyway. They were almost exclusive to the Bromley poppers.

It's also not just about the Toilets.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I think the Disability Regulations require trains with no working toilets to be taken out of service. So expect people to be terfed out in the middle of nowhere when these things happen in future

They don't. Definitely, 100%, don't.

So, lets take a 158 with 1 PRM and 1 small toilet. the rules state that if the small loo goes out of use then no issues, can continue untill end of the day. if the PRM toilet then it may make one journey to a maintenance depot, so if its alreay in service then it can carry on its journey then must be taken out.
On the cmabrian, a unit can run from shrewsbury to Aber, and then as it heads back to salop it would be taken out and swapped at Mach as its a maintenance depot. I've had it once where there was no spare unit so it was out of service and bus replacment.
its an hour and 15 before you get to the first station with toilet facilities if theres no delay, as its single line, it could easily be an hour and 45 minutes.

 

[Western Gaffer]

I think the Disability Regulations require trains with no working toilets to be taken out of service. So expect people to be terfed out in the middle of nowhere when these things happen in future

More discrimination?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, there is, as it means those who may need to use the toilet frequently cannot use the train. Bit like saying if the lifts are out of order, everyone has to use the stairs, when clearly those who have difficulty walking cannot

Unfortunately, and ridiculously, the law often seems to only consider wheelchair users and blindness and deafness when considering disability, and not toilet urgency which is a far more common disability (applying to almost everyone in old age, plus those younger with Crohn's etc). If this was taken seriously public toilet provision in this country wouldn't be as woeful as it is, both on the railway and elsewhere. Arguably it's now worse than Victorian times, as with CCTV hiding in a dark corner is no longer workable as it would have been then.

 

[Krokodil]

Can the broken toilet be sorted at a larger station (say Leeds) prior to departure or is it a depot job only?

Depends on the fault. Some can be sorted out by the guard if they know what they're doing. Some need a fitter. Some need depot attention.

If the water tank is empty it could be topped up at a station l guess.

Easy enough with older units (though vacuum toilets have significantly reduced water consumption so it's less of an issue anyway). Many newer units can only be tanked on depots.

I agree that trains should all have working toilets but on about 50% of the occasions I investigate a toilet not working it's down to misuse such as vandalism, stuffing paper towels down it or last week a person who didn't understand how open/close buttons worked so started kicking the door resulting in it being so damaged the toilet couldn't be used.

With 175s it was usually sloshing slurry tripping the "tank full" sensor. Reset and it'll fill a bit more. With 15x I seldom encounter issues, if there's anything wrong then it's something serious. With 197s the bowl clogs easily (can usually be cleared using the vacuum, hopefully someone will make the guard aware before it starts sloshing over the floor) and the door is quite sensitive - any resistance and it'll lock itself out of order (switch it off, switch it back on again.

 

[Bikeman78]

Unfortunately, and ridiculously, the law often seems to only consider wheelchair users and blindness and deafness when considering disability, and not toilet urgency which is a far more common disability (applying to almost everyone in old age, plus those younger with Crohn's etc). If this was taken seriously public toilet provision in this country wouldn't be as woeful as it is, both on the railway and elsewhere. Arguably it's now worse than Victorian times, as with CCTV hiding in a dark corner is no longer workable as it would have been then.

I'm inclined to agree. I think all trains should have a toilet but I'm not sold on the idea that a train should be cancelled if the toilet fails. Especially not if it's replaced by a bus which also does not have a toilet.