Northampton to Market Harborough

[IanBanks-Jones]

I was having a good chat on a local history groups Facebook page about this line.

I know the last passenger train ran in August 1981, and this was accompanied by some great photos, but does anyone know anything about whether a vague conversation about MML diversions in the early 1980s, that I once had with my Dad, holds any weight?

Any photos of the line in its later years would be very much appreciated too!

 

[fsmr]

I was having a good chat on a local history groups Facebook page about this line. I know the last passenger train ran in August '81, and this was accompanied by some great photo's, but does anyone know anything about whether a vague conversation about MML diversions in the early 80's that I once had with my dad holds any weight. Any photo's of the line in its later years would be very much appreciated too!

I visited the line in Oct or Nov 1982 with some mates while at college and it was very much derelict then although the semaphore arms were still there and the AHBs over the Main Northampton to Market Harborough rd albeit vandalised.
Shortly after, someone stole a large amount of the infrastructure including the AHBs IIRC,there was something in the press at the time. Common place these days, but unusual back then. One wonders what sort of market there was back then as it was still BR and very little other equipment market and scarp fairies were a lot rarer. I dont think semaphores and lineside signs were worth the amount they fetch today We walked the tunnels at Kelmarsh which still had very rusty and overgrown track. had a fright at one point when we heard a two tone and the sound of a distant train approaching. Fortunately, on the nearby MML!!

I think it was a folly to shut such a strategic link down and probably would not happen now. After all, we could now have a great diversion route for the WCML Rugby to Northampton or MML to London south of Harborough not to mention the chance of direct linking paths for Nottingham and Leicester to Northampton and Milton Keynes or even Oxford without a number of changes

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

Unfortunately, the A14, a small housing development, a supermarket, a heritage railway and a footpath preclude that now. Not to mention that the 'rat hole' tunnels had only 3 inches of clearance in places (according to a driver I was once chatting to).
Interestingly, there is evidence that they gave serious consideration to wiring the line in the 60's. One of the bridges at Pitsford was raised to allow catenary!

 

[mainframe444]

As an aside, some years ago, I lived in Rothersthorpe and used to chat to a signaller who worked at Banbury Lane box on the main line.
All the box did was control the crossing whenever a train passed.
He told me he'd been banished there as a punishment for signalling an electric train up the (non-wired) stub of the harborough branch instead of the line to Rugby.....

 

[edwin_m]

For a while in the Sixties the Grand Plan was to close the MML south of Market Harborough, demolish St Pancras (suburban trains would still have run to Moorgate I think), and serve the East Midlands via Watford. We have a lot to thank John Betjeman for, even if the consequence was the closure of this potentially useful route.

 

[Welshman]

We have a lot to thank John Betjeman for, even if the consequence was the closure of this potentially useful route.

Indeed, and it was a masterstroke to place his statue in the concourse of the new St Pancras International, holding his hat in amazement as he surveys the transformed station he worked so hard to save from closure.

 

[38Cto15E]

I used to sign that route as a guard in the early 70s. As I remember it was not a very busy route, there was a parcels train from Leicester to Northampton and back in the early hours.
Also if my memory serves me right the Glasgow St Enoch? sleeper from Euston used that route for a while, maybe the newspaper train as well.
Two other trains I worked were a Leeds Utd footex when they were playing Sunderland in the FA Cup Final at Wembley, and also an empty Royal Train stock which was going back to Wolverton.
Maybe there was also a Fridays only Derby (Litchurch Lane) to Willesdon and return stock movement.
For what it's worth I found the journey boring, there was very little to see and the speed limit was about 35mph.

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

Speed limit of 35mph? Would that have been down to infrastructure and maintenance? The line seems fairly flat and straight.

Having studied the satellite pictures, a reasonable gradient for going under the A14 would be possible, and a farmers field and several million pounds could get you a flying junction onto the MML. The other end is relatively intact. Stick some catenary up, re-bore the tunnels and you'd have easier wires to the East Midlands!

 

[Philip Elliott]

Speed limit of 35mph? Would that have been down to infrastructure and maintenance? The line seems fairly flat and straight.

Having studied the satellite pictures, a reasonable gradient for going under the A14 would be possible, and a farmers field and several million pounds could get you a flying junction onto the MML. The other end is relatively intact. Stick some catenary up, re-bore the tunnels and you'd have easier wires to the East Midlands!

A lot of speed limits are down to maintenance plans. Nuneaton - Coventry never gets above 45mph but could easily be so much quicker.

The Lamport line already goes under the A14 - a bridge exists on the former down line approach to Kelmarsh tunnel but it would need lifting slightly.

When did the last bit to the A5199 (old A50) get lifted? It was shown on maps until quite recently.

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

I'm pretty sure it went in the late 80's or early 90's. from what I can work out, a lot of the rest of the track was pulled up in the early 80's, making the NLR's job unnecessarily harder.

 

[The Decapod]

Shortly after, someone stole a large amount of the infrastructure including the AHBs IIRC,there was something in the press at the time. Common place these days, but unusual back then. One wonders what sort of market there was back then as it was still BR and very little other equipment market and scarp fairies were a lot rarer.

Souvenir hunters taking stuff for keeps.

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

Perhaps they'd be good enough to return them to the Northampton & Lamport Railway now. They might need them one day!

 

[eastwestdivide]

... MML diversions in the early 1980s...

Is it possible the vague conversation was about diversions via Bedford-Bletchley?
There were some engineering work diversions in the early 80s off the MML, via Bedford-Bletchley-Euston. I caught one one Sunday from Leicester-Euston, but annoyingly, it was slow line all the way into Euston, so no great speeds.
I've a photo of a 45 on the buffer stops at Euston, with the adjacent destination board showing "Sheffield".

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

I don't think it was, but that's interesting to know nonetheless. At the time, we were stood on the disused trackbed near Kingsthorpe Mill, discussing its former use. There is every possibility that Dad was a little hazy on the matter, as it would have happened in his 'railway wilderness' years, between the late 60's and early 80's. like a lot of ex-trainspotters, he shunned the idea of following trains until a decent excuse (I.e. Me) came along! Alas, I can no longer ask him, as he's off spotting baby deltics, prototype warships and 10000/1.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The route closed in 1981 due mainly to condition of track - I believe that in the final years there were a few 15mph restrictions as well as the overall limit of around 45mph - the track was in very poor condition. Aside from where it was stolen, the track wasn't properly lifted until the end of the 80s. The Northampton Steam Railway had grand plans to reopen the lot but I believe BR wanted £1m for the land and track, so they ended up with the little bit they run at Pitsford. The route is pretty much clear all the way until just before Market Harborough - in the (unlikely) event that it ever reopened the junction with the MML would need to be new formation a bit further south, but like many more recent closures the majority of it has been turned into a proper path/cycleway which is a bit more sensible than flogging bits off piecemeal.

 

[DarloRich]

There will of course be an electrified link between the MML & WCML in the near future, along the Marston Vale line

It does seems a shame that this line (along with the Buzzard – Dunstable - Luton line) was closed, especially considering the growth of MK, but I suppose money talks and no one owns a crystal ball.

It is most annoying that there are an almost complete lack of non London based links between WCML,MML & ECML. A journey from MK to Peterborough, say, is much better by road than by rail The lines aren’t that far apart near Bedford..............

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

If looking for more sensible routes to reopen and electrify, the Bedford-Northampton line would have been well suited. Linking two reasonably big towns with poor road connections, and a MML northbound- WCML southbound set of connections. But, despite one bidder for thameslink considering it, it died a very swift death.
I'd love Northamptonshire's railways to become a little more comprehensive, but I doubt I'll see it, apart from a chunk of HS2.

 

[edwin_m]

Doesn't the big block of flats just south of Market Harborough station block the formation?

 

[Chris125]

Doesn't the big block of flats just south of Market Harborough station block the formation?

I don't think that's a major stumbling block, looking at Google Maps a reinstated line may be better off connecting to the existing network south of the town where they are only a few hundred metres apart. Justifying the cost however is another matter altogether.

Chris

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

It'll never happen though.

On a slightly different note, how far do we think the Northampton & Lamport Railway will get? Will they ever reach either?

 

[MCW]

It'll never happen though.

On a slightly different note, how far do we think the Northampton & Lamport Railway will get? Will they ever reach either?

at the rate they are currently going at... probably not.

 

[455driver]

Doesn't the big block of flats just south of Market Harborough station block the formation?

Just buy the middle flats on the first 2 floors and turn them into a tunnel!

 

[yorksrob]

Out of interest, were the tunnel clearances generous enough for Mk 3‘s?

 

[38Cto15E]

I have been looking in my 1974 Mandatory WTT and found the following trains listed.

MX 2F08 Northampton 0010, Lamport 0032, Mkt Harboro 0050, Leicester 0119
MX 4E11 Northampton 0600, Lamport 0620, Mkt Harboro 0639, Leicester 0656
W SX 5A12 Leicester 0925, Mkt Harboro 0946, Lamport 1004, Northampton 1024
SX 4B25 Leicester 2204, Mkt Harboro 2229, Lamport 2239, Northampton 2307

I would imagine there were additional freight trains which ran from time to time as well.

 

[IanBanks-Jones]

39 minutes for 15 miles of railway? It must have been really poorly maintained. Most of the alignment is straight and flat too!

I take it that Lamport wasn't actually a stop. It is in the middle of nowhere. Fascinating stuff Gus!

 

[alastair]

I have been looking in my 1974 Mandatory WTT and found the following trains listed.

MX 2F08 Northampton 0010, Lamport 0032, Mkt Harboro 0050, Leicester 0119
MX 4E11 Northampton 0600, Lamport 0620, Mkt Harboro 0639, Leicester 0656
W SX 5A12 Leicester 0925, Mkt Harboro 0946, Lamport 1004, Northampton 1024
SX 4B25 Leicester 2204, Mkt Harboro 2229, Lamport 2239, Northampton 2307

I would imagine there were additional freight trains which ran from time to time as well.

I have fond memories of travelling this line sometime in the spring of 1974 on a Merrymaker mystery tour from Euston to Norwich(!). We were hauled by an 81 from Euston to Northampton where 2 class 24's took over for the rest of the trip,which was routed via Market Harborough,Leicester and Peterborough(the return was via the GE main line to Stratford and then the North London line back to Euston. The train was first class only and the fare was £1.75,I think. Happy days!

 

[daccer]

I did live in the area for a long time and the formation is gone in Market Harborough by and large. Flats take up much of the trackbed and outside of the town some of the formation has been levelled and obviously the bridges etc are all gone. Until recently there were a couple of old level crossings (without barriers) in the town standing as reminders of the past. I always wondered why lines such as this which could provide diversionary uses weren't safeguarded for future use. Guess we will never know but there is 0% chance of this line ever coming back into use.

 

[mr_jrt]

I did live in the area for a long time and the formation is gone in Market Harborough by and large. Flats take up much of the trackbed and outside of the town some of the formation has been levelled and obviously the bridges etc are all gone. Until recently there were a couple of old level crossings (without barriers) in the town standing as reminders of the past. I always wondered why lines such as this which could provide diversionary uses weren't safeguarded for future use. Guess we will never know but there is 0% chance of this line ever coming back into use.

I took a quick look at this earlier in the discussion...and as you say, the formation through the town is gone...but is it needed? Why could a rebuilt line not simply divert off and connect to the Midland route? It's not even much of a diversion.

 

[A0wen]

I took a quick look at this earlier in the discussion...and as you say, the formation through the town is gone...but is it needed? Why could a rebuilt line not simply divert off and connect to the Midland route? It's not even much of a diversion.

The issue is that if it were possible to reinstate the old line, the benefits case is debateable at best. Drawing up and building a new formation wouldn't be cheap and would compromise the benefits case still further.

The simple fact is there's nowhere of any significance along the route which would generate custom and many of the journeys which people suggest are viable using other, existing rail routes e.g. Leicester - Milton Keynes can be done either by changing at Nuneaton or Bedford.

 

[stephen_c]

I don't think this route would justify reopening alone, but as part of a broader scheme it might. My HS2 alternative HC-Midland includes a Northampton to Leicester section, of which this line is one possible choice. Funnily enough, HC-Midland is an ideal fall back if HS2 gets cancelled, so perhaps this route may yet be reopened in guise.