Northern 180s to be withdrawn by 03/12

[507 001]

2x 142 formations won't be able to cope in the peaks round here.
Its all laughable really.

 

[driver9000]

Monday - lady fainted and had to get off the train at Deansgate after being crushed as the station staff were ramming them on the train Japanese style at Salford Crescent.

Monday was an exception formed of 2x142s. Hopefully that won't be too regular.

 

[Lampshade]

The *only* formation that should be being used on that line in the morning is 2x156. The 156s however are being used on Merseyrail City Line services, which are perfect 150 territory, but money talks :roll:

 

[tbtc]

The *only* formation that should be being used on that line in the morning is 2x156

There's not much of a difference in capacity between a doubled up 150 and a doubled up 156 though?

 

[RAPC]

Monday was an exception formed of 2x142s. Hopefully that won't be too regular.

Indeed. There was a large groan at Leyland when they rolled in on Monday. Says it all when passengers who don't really know much about the trains react negatively when 142s turn up.

Also they are just are not fit for winter travel as a number of units end up blowing a gale through the doors and are nigh on impossible to keep warm. The only benefit of the overcrowding is that the punters get to huddle up to keep warm for when the cold weather really kicks in.

On the peak mornings when loads appear to be heavier (usually Monday / Tuesday from what I've observed) then only 2x156s seem to cope. On the days of the week when the loads are a shade lighter, then the 150s can just about manage. With the exception of school holidays etc, the 142s aren't suitable. It is the 3rd time this year I've seen people have issues (fainting and a leg injury) due to overcrowding on these services when the 180s weren't available. Ultimately though, what can Northern do with the hand they have been dealt?

 

[pemma]

There's not much of a difference in capacity between a doubled up 150 and a doubled up 156 though?

There's up to around 40 seats on a pair of 150s over a pair of 156s, depending on which 150s are used. Plus the 150s are 3+2 seating so the aisles are narrower and more likely to have seated passengers partly blocking the aisles.

 

[tbtc]

There's up to around 40 seats on a pair of 150s over a pair of 156s, depending on which 150s are used. Plus the 150s are 3+2 seating so the aisles are narrower and more likely to have seated passengers partly blocking the aisles.

If we are talking a 3+2 150 (20 metre coaches) with a 2+2 156 (23 metre coaches) then whats the difference?

 

[pemma]

If we are talking a 3+2 150 (20 metre coaches) with a 2+2 156 (23 metre coaches) then whats the difference?

Most of the Northern 150s have less seats than when built to allow for wheelchair spaces. The former FNW ones (which make up the majority) also only have 3+2 seating in one and a half of the carriages, the other half is either 2+2 seating or contains 2+ longitudinal seating, this is to allow wheelchairs to get to and from the large accessible toilet they have.

Also, by 6m of extra aisle space for people to stand in.

 

[Lampshade]

If we are talking a 3+2 150 (20 metre coaches) with a 2+2 156 (23 metre coaches) then whats the difference?

There's much more standing room in the vestibules/luggage area and the aisles are longer

Putting 142s however, in any quantity, on this line at that time in the morning is inexcusable.

 

[tbtc]

There's much more standing room in the vestibules/luggage area and the aisles are longer

...but then the 150s are wider.

 

[pemma]

...but then the 150s are wider.

by a whole 7cm!

The total area of a 156 carriage is 62.79 metres squared

The total area of a 150 carriage is 56 metres squared.

Therefore a 150 is 15% smaller than a 156.

 

[Lampshade]

...but then the 150s are wider.

2.7m vs 2.8m compared with 23m vs 20m. You can fit quite a few more people in that extra 12m of length (on a 4 car train) than in the extra 10cm of width.

That said, the 150s have more seats, but we're talking about absolute capacity rather than just seats (and I've never seen people regularly use the middle seat on the 3 side outside of SWT-land), and more people can physically fit on 2x156 than 2x150.

Put another way, 2x156 has an extra 24.4m^2 of floor space.

 

[pemma]

That said, the 150s have more seats,

The Northern 150s have 124 to 149 seats per unit. However, very few still have 149 seats - the reformed LM sets are the only ones. The rest have had seating removed for wheelchair spaces. The 156s have just over 150 seats.

and I've never seen people regularly use the middle seat on the 3 side outside of SWT-land

You mustn't be looking very hard then. Apart from one or two odd middle seats the rest always seem to be occupied on busy Northern services. With a few exceptions e.g. people boarding at Preston who alight at Chorley usually just stand around the doors whether there are seats or not.

 

[Metadyneman]

If it is of interest BBC South Today ran a story last night saying increased capacity is being introduced on FGW IC125 sets by adding an additional refurbed ex TRUB carriage and more importantly to this thread the re introduction of class 180 sets to some "cotswold" services.

 

[ainsworth74]

If it is of interest BBC South Today ran a story last night saying increased capacity is being introduced on FGW IC125 sets by adding an additional refurbed ex TRUB carriage and more importantly to this thread the re introduction of class 180 sets to some "cotswold" services.

There haven't been any TRUBs in an HST formation since the 80s the vehicles that are going to be modified into TSs were originally TRFBs.

 

[swt_passenger]

If it is of interest BBC South Today ran a story last night saying increased capacity is being introduced on FGW IC125 sets by adding an additional refurbed ex TRUB carriage and more importantly to this thread the re introduction of class 180 sets to some "cotswold" services.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=55742

 

[Metadyneman]

There haven't been any TRUBs in an HST formation since the 80s the vehicles that are going to be modified into TSs were originally TRFBs.

Thank you for correcting me... I did in fact mean TRFBs, not that it makes a lot of difference as they won't be TRFBs when they are modified!

 

[ainsworth74]

not that it makes a lot of difference as they won't be TRFBs when they are modified!

Well indeed, but this board is famous for its pedantry

 

[callum112233]

So does anyone know what time the last 180's will leave Victoria on the 3rd of December?
I've been wanting a ride on a 180 for a couple of years now but never had chance. I'm hoping to ride one as far as Bolton on the last day of service.

 

[175001]

180's don't run on Saturday's so, it SHOULD be on the 2122 Victoria-Blackpool on the Friday.

 

[callum112233]

Damn
That's me screwed. I work nights.

 

[43167]

Might do a Lancs day ranger next week & have a long trip on 1.

Ive done them while in they have been in the northwest, but only short leaps.

 

[IanXC]

Might do a Lancs day ranger next week & have a long trip on 1.

Ive done them while in they have been in the northwest, but only short leaps.

I'm tempted to try to track one down too. Having said that on every one of my 4 attempts I have been thwarted, I could check before I left home I guess, but that still leaves a good 3 hours for a failure!

 

[callum112233]

I usually come across them when I don't need to get on them. Usually when I am catching the Manchester-Huddersfield train. Obviously whenever I am going back to wigan, the blackpool train is always a 156 and never a 180. I'd be happy with a 15 min trip to Bolton just to say I've been on one.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I'm tempted to try to track one down too. Having said that on every one of my 4 attempts I have been thwarted, I could check before I left home I guess, but that still leaves a good 3 hours for a failure!

Glad I'm not the only one. As I said earlier in the thread every time I tried to get one when originally with FGW they either failed or were running so late that had I waited for it I would have missed my last connection later on in the journey. Still haven't managed it as my attempt to get a Northern one was just after the particular diagram switched to 150s.

 

[Nym]

The're really nothing that special, just a comfy seat if you can get Coach D.

 

[Lampshade]

The're really nothing that special, just a comfy seat if you can get Coach D.

I wouldn't even say Coach D is anything to shout about, Coach E is more spacious, there is much more space for luggage and I find the seats to be just as comfortable as D despite being standard class. Oh and the audio entertainment system was switched on on 106 for a few weeks so there was the novelty of listening to Radio 4 on the move.

 

[callum112233]

Are the seats the same as in a 175?

 

[driver9000]

Are the seats the same as in a 175?

Yes. I find the leg room very good on them.

If anyone is out chasing the 180, the all day Monday-Friday Blackpool-Manchester Victoria is still the diagram booked for the 180 (180103). The Hazel Grove diagram has been Sprinterised (could I suggest the Frequently requested diagrams sticky is amended to remove the Hazel Grove journeys along with the 17:56 Preston-Victoria and 19:28 Victoria-Blackpool N to save any confusion).

 

[43167]

Yes. I find the leg room very good on them.

If anyone is out chasing the 180, the all day Monday-Friday Blackpool-Manchester Victoria is still the diagram booked for the 180 (180103). The Hazel Grove diagram has been Sprinterised (could I suggest the Frequently requested diagrams sticky is amended to remove the Hazel Grove journeys along with the 17:56 Preston-Victoria and 19:28 Victoria-Blackpool N to save any confusion).

Thanks for pointing that out, will just focus on the Man Vic-Blackpool.