Northern City Line

[387star]

Few questions...

Will the line from finsbury park to moorgate be equipped for ato as it is mostly tunnels if not all tunnel from drayton park

Secondly I thought this service had a weekend service now but clearly wrong as signs everywhere state minday to friday only

Thirdly why is network south east still visible down here? Is it because the stations are lu managed?

Finally given the fourth rail now obsolete presumably this line was once a london underground line?

 

[rebmcr]

Few questions...

Will the line from finsbury park to moorgate be equipped for ato as it is mostly tunnels if not all tunnel from drayton park

Not immediately, but the eventual ETCS installation will allow for that sort of thing more easily.

Secondly I thought this service had a weekend service now but clearly wrong as signs everywhere state minday to friday only

The stations have seen basically zero investment for 20 years, we should be lucky any signs remain legible, never mind up-to-date! The line is now nominally open on weekends, but often is cancelled due to crew shortages.

Thirdly why is network south east still visible down here? Is it because the stations are lu managed?

There is a stark difference in ambience between the franchise-managed NCL platforms and the LU-managed rest of stations. It's ultimately down to the successive franchisees, who have left it untouched since the 1990s.

Finally given the fourth rail now obsolete presumably this line was once a london underground line?

That's correct. When the Victoria line was built, it took over the northerly terminus platforms at Finsbury Park, and the line was finally connected to the national network, as originally planned from the previous century!

 

[DerekC]

Few questions...

Will the line from finsbury park to moorgate be equipped for ato as it is mostly tunnels if not all tunnel from drayton park

Depends - if ETCS is going to be fitted to ECML and if ATO over ETCS works on Thameslink it would be an obvious candidate, but the purpose of ATO on a line like this is to give more capacity, and this is constrained by the time taken to detrain passengers, clear the platform and reverse at Moorgate - so ATO wouldn't give much benefit. In theory driverless operation might help a bit by avoiding the time taken for the driver to change ends, but, but, but ....

Secondly I thought this service had a weekend service now but clearly wrong as signs everywhere state minday to friday only

Quick check of the GN timetable shows services 7/7

Thirdly why is network south east still visible down here? Is it because the stations are lu managed?

Don't know - but doubt it's anything to do with LU or there would be LT-style signs up.

Finally given the fourth rail now obsolete presumably this line was once a london underground line?

The "fourth rail" still visible on parts of this line has been retained for extra conductance in the traction return path, I think. However it was an LU line and has a very complex history. Suggest reading the Wikipedia article rather than me trying to give a potted history here!

 

[swt_passenger]

A previously discussed problem with some of the NSE branding is that it is an integral part of the structure, such as tiling. It isn't quite as easy as sticking a bit of vinyl over it as they'd probably do on the surface.

 

[swt class 450]

Few questions...

Will the line from finsbury park to moorgate be equipped for ato as it is mostly tunnels if not all tunnel from drayton park

Secondly I thought this service had a weekend service now but clearly wrong as signs everywhere state minday to friday only

Thirdly why is network south east still visible down here? Is it because the stations are lu managed?

Finally given the fourth rail now obsolete presumably this line was once a london underground line?

I wouldnt recommend believing any of the signage and information at any of the stations on this line. Everything is out of date. All of the stations are full of Network South East branding and Highbury & Islington even still has some "North London Link" signs.

 

[GW43125]

I wouldnt recommend believing any of the signage and information at any of the stations on this line. Everything is out of date. All of the stations are full of Network South East branding and Highbury & Islington even still has some "North London Link" signs.

Beat me to it!

The "trains to Bedford" sign was only covered up last year!

 

[snowball]

Finally given the fourth rail now obsolete presumably this line was once a london underground line?

Site of the grim Moorgate crash 42 years ago today! A few months later it stopped being part of the Underground and closed for conversion to BR.

 

[387star]

Pretty poor really how hard is it to change the signage

 

[tsr]

I wouldn't necessarily say that removing the NSE branding is strictly necessary, though I'm sure it could be simply vinyled over if need be - I should think that vinyl or similar adhesive graphics would rarely interfere with more modern sorts of tiling and brickwork embedded into structures. As for signage, I agree directional and service-related signs should be updated.

But...

There is a stark difference in ambience between the franchise-managed NCL platforms and the LU-managed rest of stations. It's ultimately down to the successive franchisees, who have left it untouched since the 1990s.

...is there? Some of the associated Tube stations are decidedly dingy and unkempt. Moorgate Tube is practically held up by duct tape, is full of leaks and has the remnants of the disused Thameslink route, with which nobody seems to quite know what to do (OK, they do, but there's a concerted lack of enthusiasm!). Indeed, I'd say that the NCL parts of the stations are dark and speak of a bygone era, but the passenger-facing stuff isn't too badly maintained and retains the atmosphere of a working museum piece rather than an abandoned railway.

With a bit of pride, a deep clean and some historical information more prominently, this could be a unique bit of infrastructure which London could be proud of.

 

[bb21]

Pretty poor really how hard is it to change the signage

See Post 4.

 

[theageofthetra]

Site of the grim Moorgate crash 42 years ago today! A few months later it stopped being part of the Underground and closed for conversion to BR.

Some senior firefighters who had seen WW2 action never got over what they saw that day. Shameful the way it was covered up.

 

[bluegoblin7]

...is there? Some of the associated Tube stations are decidedly dingy and unkempt. Moorgate Tube is practically held up by duct tape, is full of leaks and has the remnants of the disused Thameslink route, with which nobody seems to quite know what to do (OK, they do, but there's a concerted lack of enthusiasm!). Indeed, I'd say that the NCL parts of the stations are dark and speak of a bygone era, but the passenger-facing stuff isn't too badly maintained and retains the atmosphere of a working museum piece rather than an abandoned railway.

The LU side of Moorgate is undergoing a major refurbishment and transformation, so this seems a little unfair. Once the works are complete (and, indeed, from the position they're at now) it will be a much nicer atmosphere, along with the associated capacity upgrades in conjunction with the Crossrail connectivity.

The former Thameslink bay platforms will be used as part of the new City Sidings, a project which is very much progressing - with enthusiasm - as it's an inherent part of the line capacity upgrades needed for the sub-surface lines resignalling. Indeed, a new running junction was installed at Farringdon over a number of February weekends.

 

[Hadders]

I don't think you can just vinyl over the tiles because of the fire regulations at stations underground. I do quite like the NSE branding though.

 

[infobleep]

A previously discussed problem with some of the NSE branding is that it is an integral part of the structure, such as tiling. It isn't quite as easy as sticking a bit of vinyl over it as they'd probably do on the surface.

Could it not become listed and a heritage station, similar to how Harrow on the Hill must be listed?

After all why not keep an example of the Network South East style branding.

 

[infobleep]

I wouldn't necessarily say that removing the NSE branding is strictly necessary, though I'm sure it could be simply vinyled over if need be - I should think that vinyl or similar adhesive graphics would rarely interfere with more modern sorts of tiling and brickwork embedded into structures. As for signage, I agree directional and service-related signs should be updated.

But...



...is there? Some of the associated Tube stations are decidedly dingy and unkempt. Moorgate Tube is practically held up by duct tape, is full of leaks and has the remnants of the disused Thameslink route, with which nobody seems to quite know what to do (OK, they do, but there's a concerted lack of enthusiasm!). Indeed, I'd say that the NCL parts of the stations are dark and speak of a bygone era, but the passenger-facing stuff isn't too badly maintained and retains the atmosphere of a working museum piece rather than an abandoned railway.

With a bit of pride, a deep clean and some historical information more prominently, this could be a unique bit of infrastructure which London could be proud of.

I agree about the history side.

 

[NSEFAN]

Pretty poor really how hard is it to change the signage

I think the most important question is who's called dibs on the signage when it does finally get replaced?

 

[Lee_Again]

Shameful the way it was covered up.

What was covered up?