Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[LOL The Irony]

By the sounds of it...

Don't they get a nice soaking to check for leaks?

 

[samuelmorris]

From memory I think that was an issue with some 345s before they were handed over, was it not? I'm sure that was featured on one of the many TV documentaries about crossrail.

 

[absolutelymilk]

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1073246175950704640
Richard Clinnick is saying on Twitter that the first 195 should be in traffic next week, seems a lot earlier than the consensus on here! Hopefully he's right!

If all goes to plan, and I've heard nothing to the contrary, the first @CAFRailUK Class 195s for @northernassist should be accepted next week and enter traffic. The plan is 3 3-cars by the end of 2018.

 

[Starmill]

So has driver training begun ?

 

[Bertie the bus]

His tweets regarding the 769s haven't exactly been accurate. We shall see.

 

[Eccles1983]

He is wrong.

No instructor or DTM or guard training has taken place.

Never mind the drivers, which a training package is still being hammered out.

 

[evoluzione]

So has driver training begun ?

NO, not even close to starting.

 

[Geeves]

Maybe what he should say is that yes the unit COULD enter traffic if it is accepted how ever as has been said, no drivers have been trained, the ones that could drive and train others at Liverpool apparently all quit, no deal with ASLEF has yet to be signed, no deal with the guards. We don't even know which depot and what routes they will go on first. They have not been cleared for all the routes they are (supposed) to be running on.

Anything else?

 

[JonathanH]

How about one of those contractual operations where it runs in service for one journey (so they enter service in 2018) and then it is not seen for another few months?

 

[Buspilot]

Can they muster enough (a few) staff to operate just one unit on the Victoria -Stalybridge shuttle?

 

[Eccles1983]

Any driver or guard taking the train into passenger service without union approved training would be an idiot.

And also potentially lining themselves up for disciplinary action.

So no. There will be no passenger services ran in 2018.

 

[Starmill]

Can they muster enough (a few) staff to operate just one unit on the Victoria -Stalybridge shuttle?

Presumably not, if the instructors do not even sign the traction.

 

[AlexNL]

Ian Prosser has just posted on Twitter that the 195's have been authorised today:

We authorised the CAF 195's today work still to be done with the operator before they can be brought into service but good step forward

 

[jizzer]

I would take a punt on mid to late Feb before you see one of these in service.
Driver training programme not even agreed with ASLEF yet which is going to be an 8/9 day course. Units still have teething problems with driver door, windscreen wipers and AWS volume amongst other things . There will always be issues with new trains.

 

[Starmill]

So today's rumoured 'big development' appears to have fizzled out.

Still. Enjoy your strike in the morning, all.

 

[lammergeier]

I would take a punt on mid to late Feb before you see one of these in service.
Driver training programme not even agreed with ASLEF yet which is going to be an 8/9 day course. Units still have teething problems with driver door, windscreen wipers and AWS volume amongst other things . There will always be issues with new trains.

AWS volume is an interesting one, I'm guessing complaints surround excessive volume?

 

[driver_m]

AWS volume is an interesting one, I'm guessing complaints surround excessive volume?

I'd guess the opposite, that it's too quiet . Sooner have AWS loud than muffled. There's a section leaving Euston near Queens Park, and the loud track noise means you can end up missing the AWS if it goes off there, if you have a cab window open .

 

[lammergeier]

I'd guess the opposite, that it's too quiet . Sooner have AWS loud than muffled. There's a section leaving Euston near Queens Park, and the loud track noise means you can end up missing the AWS if it goes off there, if you have a cab window open .

I wondered about them being too loud as on some stock there have been complaints about the excessive volume on some sounders, particularly clear, and db tests have confirmed they are too loud. Gradually they are being replaced by a quieter, more modern sounder which still has the desired effect but doesn't have quite the same piercing sound.

 

[59CosG95]

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/northern-revises-date-for-introduction-of-caf-trains Seems that the 195s and 331s alike have been delayed... un poco de una farsa for CAF across the board!

 

[samuelmorris]

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/northern-revises-date-for-introduction-of-caf-trains Seems that the 195s and 331s alike have been delayed... un poco de una farsa for CAF across the board!

and indeed almost every train manufacturer for the UK at the moment. Certainly true of Bombardier and Hitachi. Siemens aren't doing too bad but the 717s are still a little bit behind. I think Stadler are slightly late too. I'm not saying it's acceptable but no point singling CAF out in particular. Nothing here is introduced on time these days.

 

[EE Andy b1]

CAF - Cheap and Faulty or something similar.

 

[td97]

Obviously Northern will blame CAF, but I do wonder how much of the delay could be attributed to Northern, i.e. the whole farce training drivers, with a deal to enable driver training still reported not to have been agreed with ASLEF.
Faulty windscreen wipers sounds like a month max to fix, not 6.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Obviously Northern will blame CAF, but I do wonder how much of the delay could be attributed to Northern, i.e. the whole farce training drivers, with a deal to enable driver training still reported not to have been agreed with ASLEF.
Faulty windscreen wipers sounds like a month max to fix, not 6.

If ORR has approved 195s on the network, as it seems it has, it's down to Northern to get them into service as soon as possible.
Surely crew training and route-proving is preparation for service, not "testing"?
It would be interesting to know how many units (if any) have been accepted from CAF by the ROSCO/TOC.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I have no idea what new train approval by the ORR involves but it won’t mean they are ready for service. I agree with td97 – the delay is due to both the train and Northern’s unpreparedness and predictably Northern choose to only mention the former.

 

[superkev]

Could it be Northern dont want to antagonize ASLEF who I dont think have agreed to drive them yet.
K

 

[TRAX]

It’s all good and well to call this a ‘delay’ in introduction, but isn’t this the whole point of testing ? ie. making sure all issues are resolved before a safe introduction to service ?

 

[Bertie the bus]

You’re missing the point. The whole point of developing a plan and timetable for the introduction of new trains is to take testing into consideration. Anybody who thinks that a train will work out of the box has no business working on the railway.

Don't make promises you know you probably won't be able to keep is the moral of the story. Unfortunately that is another lesson the railway constantly needs to relearn - and then instantly forgets.

 

[TRAX]

Agreed.

 

[EE Andy b1]

You’re missing the point. The whole point of developing a plan and timetable for the introduction of new trains is to take testing into consideration. Anybody who thinks that a train will work out of the box has no business working on the railway.

Don't make promises you know you probably won't be able to keep is the moral of the story. Unfortunately that is another lesson the railway constantly needs to relearn - and then instantly forgets.

Too many people involved nowadays that are not Railway orientated people!

 

[scrapy]

How about one of those contractual operations where it runs in service for one journey (so they enter service in 2018) and then it is not seen for another few months?

They are not contractually required until Northern Connect starts in 2019 even though Northern promised them in 2018.