From the 230 thread yesterday:
That applies to the Class 230s, not the Class 195s...
From the 230 thread yesterday:
On the basis that ASLEF have form here my guess is it's about money. Training on overtime or within the working week perhaps.
The new trains do have one handle instead if two.
K
On the basis that ASLEF have form here my guess is it's about money. Training on overtime or within the working week perhaps.
The new trains do have one handle instead if two.
K
Last I heard the issue was that Northern wanted to do the training course in seven straight days (i.e. work straight through rest days and Sundays) which was proving somewhat hard to persuade ASLEF to agree to. And, if true, I can see why! I certainly wouldn't want to work seven days on the trot and even less so without some serious financial incentive.
As for your comment about the controls I'll assume that that was a very poor attempt at humour. As @Bungle965 pointed out the 170s have the same sort of control set up and went into service without bother.
Last I heard the issue was that Northern wanted to do the training course in seven straight days (i.e. work straight through rest days and Sundays) which was proving somewhat hard to persuade ASLEF to agree to. And, if true, I can see why! I certainly wouldn't want to work seven days on the trot and even less so without some serious financial incentive.
As for your comment about the controls I'll assume that that was a very poor attempt at humour. As @Bungle965 pointed out the 170s have the same sort of control set up and went into service without bother.
I believe 195s 331s have proportional controls rather than previous units which have a limited number of distinct steps so will need practice to stop in the right place. Presumably why the extended trading period.Why does that matter?
A 170 has a Traction & Brake Controller and they went into service without too much fuss.
Sam
You cannot libel a group (unless that group is considered to exist as a legal personality), and trade unions are specifically excluded from claiming for defamation/libel. If someone named you personally in what they said, that could be libel; saying something negative about all train drivers, or all ASLEF members, cannot.Not about cash as previously and libellously claimed.
Agreed. If that's what Northern are proposing they want their heads looking at. I'd also question whether it's sensible for someone to be driving a train after 9 days without a break. I know if I worked 9 days straight I'd be exhausted.9 days straight?
I would reject that out of hand; for me rest day work is for emergency matters only. Good on the Unions this time.
I thought there are laws about how many consecutive days can be worked without a rest. Perhaps Northern are not counting the days in the classroom.You cannot libel a group (unless that group is considered to exist as a legal personality), and trade unions are specifically excluded from claiming for defamation/libel. If someone named you personally in what they said, that could be libel; saying something negative about all train drivers, or all ASLEF members, cannot.
Agreed. If that's what Northern are proposing they want their heads looking at. I'd also question whether it's sensible for someone to be driving a train after 9 days without a break. I know if I worked 9 days straight I'd be exhausted.
Send some Pacers to Cardiff Canton: that'll make space.The classroom days still count as far as the regulations go, all working days regardless of duties being safety critical or not are taken into account.
The four-road shed on Newton Heath is visible from the running lines past the depot towards Rochdale, it still looks like a muddy hole in the ground much the same as it did six months ago. Space for stabling of units is likely to be a big headache for Northern especially later this year.
Agreed!Send some Pacers to Cardiff Canton: that'll make space.
That applies to the Class 230s, not the Class 195s...
Another meeting with ASLEF EC tomorrow. Hopefully better news,if so course for DI's starts Wednesday
Last I heard the issue was that Northern wanted to do the training course in seven straight days (i.e. work straight through rest days and Sundays) which was proving somewhat hard to persuade ASLEF to agree to. And, if true, I can see why! I certainly wouldn't want to work seven days on the trot and even less so without some serious financial incentive.
Driver instructors and managers have been testing the units under supervision from CAF ensuring the units get the required fault free mileage, in order to do this have signed the WCML. This shouldn't be confused with actually being fully trained and signing the units, training for which will only start when signed off by ASLEF.I know at least one guy (DI) at Vic who has been out learning the WCML up to Carnfiorth but unsure if it was in a 195 or not so presuming that even though the talks are on going about the actual timing of the training, the driver instructor training (in a fashion) is going on anyway, thankfully .
The sticking point was that Northern wanted to only offer overtime going back on previous agreement, not time off in lieu, and not everyone wants overtime.presumably northern were offering the additional hours at enhanced rate/time in lieu?
What are you referring to here please?The overtime option might not last much longer than the first few courses the way things are going.
They should already have the required route knowledge. All they need is traction training.I dread to think how long it's going to take to train everyone up who needs to. Don't forget Northern drivers in a depot link work many routes so its not just training a handful to run a particular route.
Anyone guess as to how many drivers need training on the first routes.
K
Rest-day working isn't a given, the RDW agreement was recently extended to late April but it is a possibility that this might not be extended further. Having no RDW agreement should mean that the training would still be possible but the extra training days worked would be 'banked' to be taken at a later date in line with the relevant agreement.What are you referring to here please?
That's right. The DIs need a significant amount of route learning for carrying out the practical handling up and down the WCML while they are training drivers. This route learning could have been done before now, although Aslef failing to agree the training has rendered that irrelevant. For drivers, the majority would already be competent on the routes they are to drive the new traction on. Any drivers who weren't competent on a route (say a new Piccadilly driver who doesn't yet sign Preston via Chorley and via Wigan NW) would do the traction training first before they learnt the routes required.They should already have the required route knowledge. All they need is traction training.
Yes but 7 to 9 days of traction trading per driver is going to take quite some time. Wasn't it 300 drivers just to run the Blackpool service.They should already have the required route knowledge. All they need is traction training.
I would expect that they’ll be trained in groups and not all 300 would be needed in order to run the service initially. After all not all units will be dropped into service at the same time. It’ll just need a bit of extra effort in rostering until all are competent.Yes but 7 to 9 days of traction trading per driver is going to take quite some time. Wasn't it 300 drivers just to run the Blackpool service.
K