Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

[pieguyrob]

I can't be at Leeds in the day of the new timetable change as Im doing GCSE's during that period so the earliest I'll see one will probably be the 15th of June.

There was 331107 at Blackpool north carriage sidings week before last, with 195103 and 195113.
Without sounding rude or condascending, so please do not take this the wrong way, it is a genuine question. Do you still qualify for a child ticket, or can you get a young person's railcard?
The reason I ask, is because, I am not a dirty old man either, when I was that age my friend and myself travelled around the country for dirt cheap. We both had part time jobs and many good tines were had.

 

[Harvey B]

There was 331107 at Blackpool north carriage sidings week before last, with 195103 and 195113.
Without sounding rude or condascending, so please do not take this the wrong way, it is a genuine question. Do you still qualify for a child ticket, or can you get a young person's railcard?
The reason I ask, is because, I am not a dirty old man either, when I was that age my friend and myself travelled around the country for dirt cheap. We both had part time jobs and many good tines were had.

My plan is to get a railcard in july which is when I will no longer qualify for a childs ticket and when I turn 16. When I get one, I plan to travel to more places.

 

[pieguyrob]

Thats cool. I had a lot of enjoyable days out at the age you are now, but, the railways were a different place then. I'm only going back 20 years! Cross country was a virgin franchise, and, was either 47/8 or 86/2 hauled with guest loco's were fragonset and res 47/7's. The Holyhead route was 37/4 with mark 1 and 2 (non air conditioned stock)! In regional railways livery.

 

[pieguyrob]

Have fun on the price a ticket costs for your age. You can only do it once. Enjoy.

 

[pieguyrob]

But, I think this has gone of topic in terms of 331's, and, how people respond to a certain poster.
I saw 331107 at Blackpool North Carriage sidings.
If everything is correct, it will be there for a while...............

 

[Harvey B]

But, I think this has gone of topic in terms of 331's, and, how people respond to a certain poster.
I saw 331107 at Blackpool North Carriage sidings.
If everything is correct, it will be there for a while...............

when I go to Blackpool in June/July time I hope to see at least one 331 there even though they might be in service in leeds then

 

[pieguyrob]

Good luck!

 

[pieguyrob]

I may be a taxi driver, but, I know the Blackpool depot manager. That won't be happening.

 

[Harvey B]

I may be a taxi driver, but, I know the Blackpool depot manager. That won't be happening.

What wont be happening the 331s at leeds in July or the 331s still parked at Blackpool depot

 

[Neptune]

Leeds conductor here and as I’ve said in the refurb thread they will not enter service at the timetable change or any where close to that date. A couple of Driver Managers have been over and had a residential in Liverpool been trained on them not sure about the instructors but they have all been Route learning Leeds to Doncaster and Doncaster to York for training purposes when they finally do come over. 2 Leeds conductor managers have been over a couple of weeks ago to learn them.
If 1 enters service there should be a 2nd one spare and ready to rescue the other if it fails. Plus at least 1 on driver training runs and conductor training. So that’s at least 3 that need to be over here and accepted to run in passenger service.
At Leeds there’s 2 drivers links that sign Doncaster and conductors all approx 200 of us sign Doncaster so not sure what they’re gonna do whether it’ll just be random people of specific links. At Doncaster all drivers and Conductors sign up to Leeds bit don’t know how many that is

Conductor links 3A and 3B will be signing 331’s initially. 1A, 1B, 2A & 2B will sign them before December TT change.

 

[Harvey B]

Conductor links 3A and 3B will be signing 331’s initially. 1A, 1B, 2A & 2B will sign them before December TT change.

Can you just explain this 3A, 3B, 1A, 1B and 2A & 2B thing to me. Is it Platforms at Leeds? Or what?

 

[Neptune]

Conductor links. Of no consequence to passengers.

 

[Harvey B]

Conductor links. Of no consequence to passengers.

This needs explaining further, I still don't get what conductor links are.

 

[Neptune]

Traincrew roster, outlining the times they’ll work and whether they are booked or spare turns or most importantly rest day, which is known as a link. Most small depots have one link but large ones such as Leeds need multiple links, 32 lines each in our case. Certain routes with not enough work for all are positioned in less links such as Carlisle (in just one link), Nottingham (in two links). As you need to have an instance of working over a route or working a type of traction every 8 weeks minimum that means the 331’s will only go in two links as not enough work for anymore.

As I say, no consequence to passengers.

 

[Harvey B]

Traincrew roster, outlining the times they’ll work and whether they are booked or spare turns or most importantly rest day, which is known as a link. Most small depots have one link but large ones such as Leeds need multiple links, 32 lines each in our case. Certain routes with not enough work for all are positioned in less links such as Carlisle (in just one link), Nottingham (in two links). As you need to have an instance of working over a route or working a type of traction every 8 weeks minimum that means the 331’s will only go in two links as not enough work for anymore.

Thanks

 

[PomWombat]

Conductor links 3A and 3B will be signing 331’s initially. 1A, 1B, 2A & 2B will sign them before December TT change.

So with 32 links, there will be 1/16th of conductors signing initially (about 7%), and still only about 20% by December.

Maybe not a passenger concern, but it helps show the scale of the retraining task.

 

[superkev]

Can you just explain this 3A, 3B, 1A, 1B and 2A & 2B thing to me. Is it Platforms at Leeds? Or what?

The link system is a legacy of steam days where crews would start on the bottom link which usually had the most unsocial hours, least popular routes, shunting operations etc. After a number of years as people retired they moved up the ladder so at 50 plus age the best jobs of top link was achieved. This caused problems in the dieselisation era as the oldest least adaptive drivers where given the new steeds. Even today 15 years is not unusual to get to drive the settle and Carlisle, a top link job.
Time to move on perhaps where crews are passed out on each route in turn rather than all the routes of a particular link. Certainly help with the introduction of new trains as less crews would need training .
K

 

[Llama]

Seniority doesn't exist at a lot of depots now. It isn't always possible for crew to sign all routes/traction at a depot because for some routes there wouldn't be enough instances of work over certain routes to enable competence retention.

Segregating traincrew into different roster links enables certain routes or traction to be kept to a smaller number of crew by the fact it isn't spread as thinly so there are no knowledge retention issues.

 

[Sleeperwaking]

So with 32 links, there will be 1/16th of conductors signing initially (about 7%), and still only about 20% by December.

Maybe not a passenger concern, but it helps show the scale of the retraining task.

It sounds like the links are also tied to certain routes - if so, I guess you will never have 100% trained on Class 331s as some links will be assigned to non-electrified routes only?

 

[AmateurRambler]

Well. I'm given to understand that this (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K01763/2019/04/15/advanced) is a 331 being hauled from Edge Hill to Neville Hill. Shows as currently sat in Leeds Through Line. As I am currently lying in bed I cannot verify...

 

[Bantamzen]

Well. I'm given to understand that this (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K01763/2019/04/15/advanced) is a 331 being hauled from Edge Hill to Neville Hill. Shows as currently sat in Leeds Through Line. As I am currently lying in bed I cannot verify...

I was literally about to post in the 333 refurbishment thread that I'd just caught a glance of a refurbished unit being hauled out of Leeds towards Neville Hill by a 37, thinking that it was a 333 coming out of Holbeck. As I had only caught a fleeting glance as I walked into work, it never struck me that it could be a 331! I wish I'd taken more notice, but whatever it was it was definitely a unit in the new livery, had 1/3 & 2/3 doors & was being hauled by what sounded like a 37.

Edit: Just checking the RTT link, that was definitely the working I saw as it passed me (walking along New York Street) just before 06:45.

 

[Spartacus]

YES, it was a 331, just passed Neville Hill now. If I’d have known I would have got up a bit earlier for it!

 

[Bantamzen]

View attachment 61573 YES, it was a 331, just passed Neville Hill now. If I’d have known I would have got up a bit earlier for it!

Nice, cheers for the photo confirmation!

So I guess this is here for fitter familiarisation & driver training?

 

[AmateurRambler]

331106 I believe.

 

[Spartacus]

Yes, that was it.

 

[superkev]

I would have thought that they need 2 units, one for static training and one for hands on. Perhaps another to Doncaster soon.
K

 

[superkev]

331 test run NL to Doncaster perhaps?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N31755/2019/04/15/advanced.
K

 

[Spartacus]

Maybe, does a few runs to York and back then before returning to Neville Hill.

 

[Spartacus]

As it happens it was naff all as it was cancelled (I thought putting it out the day it came over was a bit optimistic), but the schedule’s SX so it might still run.

 

[ainsworth74]

Maybe, does a few runs to York and back then before returning to Neville Hill.

It almost certainly is, I believe Northern are using Doncaster to York as their training ground for traction handling training.