Northern franchise awarded to Arriva.

[M7R]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...nt-awards-next-transpennine-express-franchise

Arriva and first...

I'll post quite when on PC, on phone at mo

The government has announced it intends to award the Northern franchise to Arriva Rail North Limited, and the TransPennine Express franchise to First Trans Pennine Express Limited. Together they will oversee a massive £1.2 billion boost to rail services with brand-new modern trains, more seats, more services and a host of improvements to deliver a modern, 21st century passenger experience - as well as playing a vital role in bringing the Northern Powerhouse to life, rebalancing the economy, creating jobs, opportunity and growth, and providing significantly better journeys across the region.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/massive-boost-to-rail-services-brings-northern-powerhouse-to-life

 

[Class 466]

Some very interesting proposals! Looks as if the right people got them too!

 

[jw]

Seems 319s will be displaced from some routes in the North West from this Northern press release:

brand new electric trains on services from Manchester to Preston and Blackpool once electrification is complete

The operator will oversee the complete removal of the outdated and unpopular Pacers by the end of 2019, and will invest £400 million in 281 brand new air-conditioned carriages – more than double the minimum required in the government’s invitation to tender.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Bearing in mind alstom have just announced a new factory in Widnes the odds must be pretty short on them.

 

[jw]

No indication yet of how the 281 carriages for Northern breaks down - wonder what proportion will be for the higher spec 'Northern Connect' v basic Pacer replacements.

 

[47802]

So 44 new 5 carriage 125mph trains for TPE (does that sound like AT300?) and 281 new carriages for Northern a substancial investment and one in the eye for the nay sayers and suggesting Pacers would be retained. TPE to go from a loss making franchise to profit and a substancial reduction on Northern.

 

[jw]

From Arriva's corporate site:

New and refurbished trains: Through an investment of over £400m, Arriva will introduce 98 new trains (281 carriages) delivering extra capacity and with a top speed of 100mph, refurbish the remaining fleet and remove all Pacer trains by 2019. All trains will have improved connectivity with free WiFi by 2019.

No indication of how this breaks down between the higher-spec 'Northern Connect' fleet or general Pacer replacements.

 

[47802]

From Arriva's corporate site:



No indication of how this breaks down between the higher-spec 'Northern Connect' fleet or general Pacer replacements.

And don't forget it would appear that some of these new trains are going to be electric so the number of new Diesel units beyond the 120 min may not be that great.

Interestingly its talking about new trains for the Airedale route and newer trains for Leeds Doncaster. That suggests to me that the 321/322's are getting the boot from Yorkshire and presumably 333's will take over the Doncaster service.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Seems odd that, the 16 piece 333 fleet is too much for the Doncaster shuttles and the 321/322 have only recently been refurbished.

I think a lot of other stock needs attention first.

Unless they plan a single unit electric fleet across the whole network.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And don't forget it would appear that some of these new trains are going to be electric so the number of new Diesel units beyond the 120 min may not be that great.

Interestingly its talking about new trains for the Airedale route and newer trains for Leeds Doncaster. That suggests to me that the 321/322's are getting the boot from Yorkshire and presumably 333's will take over the Doncaster service.

The 333 fleet is too big for the current electric services other than the Airedale and Wharfedale, but once Leeds to York is wired some may find work there. There's also the possibility of the Sheffield via Moorthorpe going electric if the gap is filled in, though that isn't confirmed at present. Not sure about moving the Nottingham services to that route though, I'm surprised there's room for an extra semi-fast between Leeds and the junction at Moorthorpe/South Elmsall.
Certainly good news about Preston to Ormskirk going hourly, but no mention of a Sunday service on that line which given the student traffic at Weekends is a missed opportunity really. Though I guess it means the Midge Hall signaller can continue to have a day off!

 

[47802]

Seems odd that, the 16 piece 333 fleet is too much for the Doncaster shuttles and the 321/322 have only recently been refurbished.

I think a lot of other stock needs attention first.

Unless they plan a single unit electric fleet across the whole network.

Im assuming some Airedale services will still be worked by 333's but I guess we will see

 

[ag51ruk]

Manchester - Hadfield to get refurbished 4 coach trains, followed by brand new 4 coach electric trains

 

[WatcherZero]

Good for Wigan,
Barrow and Windermere services are via Atherton line, Southport service extended to Leeds and becomes one of the 'regional connect'. Atherton line frequency goes from 2, 3/4 in peak to 4tph all day. Replacement electric service for loss of Scotland TPE, 2 electic trains via Bolton eventually (no frequency change).

Presumably gets calls on the TPE 3 trains per day from Liverpool to Glasgow via St Helens. (Hourly Liverpool-Edinburgh is via Newcastle so long way round)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hopefully, this will now signal the nail in the Home Counties coffin containing the usual "What shall we do with our old trains when our new ones arrive...Let's send them up North to Northern" mantra.

 

[47802]

Manchester - Hadfield to get refurbished 4 coach trains, followed by brand new 4 coach electric trains

Indeed so there's a lot of new electric trains in that new carriage figure I wonder how many new Diesel carriages above min 120 there will be

 

[PR1Berske]

I am pleased to see the commitment to more trains to Ormskirk on the PRE line.

 

[shakey1961]

What does this mean for the Northern Rail route of Southport - Wigan etc.?

Hopefully new trains and get rid of those old rotten Pacers

 

[43074]

The interactive Northern map suggests there will be new three car trains ''running as 6 cars'' at the busiest times on the Airedale/Wharfedale lines. Whether that includes retaining some 333s isn't clear.

Looks like Newcastle will have an allocation of 158s again for the ''Northern Connect'' services in that neck of the woods, Newcastle - Middlesbrough & Carlisle.

Also Leeds - Nottingham services to be diverted via Wakefield Westgate, extended to Bradford and use some of the new diesels.

Lots of good stuff in this announcement and I'm sure more will become clear in the coming months.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Northern Connect services will have aircon so that rules out refurbished 156s - 158s possibly.
The replacement Liverpool-Warrington-Manchester train (covering for TPE moving to Victoria) will go to the Airport.
The improvements shown for Bradford include direct services to Liverpool - did they mean Chester (not mentioned here but covered under Chester)?
No mention of the proposed peak direct Ellesmere Port-Manchester service (probably diverted to Chester).

No hint of what the new trains are (mix of DMU/EMU).
If it's 98 trains and 281 vehicles there must be some 2-car sets in there.
I guess we have to beware of trains being transferred/cascaded from TPE or elsewhere as being called "new" (ie not "brand new").

Arriva (and DB) will be delighted - the first franchise win under the Arriva brand since Cross Country in 2007, with many rejections in between.
Should be better integration at stations where Northern, ATW and XC operate.

 

[PR1Berske]

What does this mean for the Northern Rail route of Southport - Wigan etc.?

Hopefully new trains and get rid of those old rotten Pacers

Commitment to extend services beyond Manchester to Leeds/Bradford and replacement of Pacers by 2019

 

[Quakkerillo]

All of these benefits, except for one bit; Ellesmere Port - Helsby - Runcorn.

I heard rumours there would be more regular journeys towards Runcorn using the curve. Was any of it really planned?

 

[thealexweb]

Good for Wigan,
Barrow and Windermere services are via Atherton line

What will be the two stations max that can be called at between Manchester Oxford Road and Preston? By picking Atherton over Bolton and Chorley it now means Chorley will have no long distance services at all

 

[47802]

More Barrow Carlisle trains and the Loco Hauled carriages will be refurbished:roll:

On WNXX Tony Miles confirming no Tube Trains in the plan, DMU's may be CAF but not confirmed.

 

[northwichcat]

It seems the new diesel trains will run Chester-Leeds via Bradford, Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warrington and Barrow to Manchester Airport, Lincoln to Sheffield and Blackpool to York.

158s will go on to Newcastle to Middlesbrough services

There's a mention of older trains replacing 323s in 2017 but the older trains being replaced by new trains by 2020.

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Northern Connect services will have aircon so that rules out refurbished 156s - 158s possibly.

Which routes will get new trains is mentioned here: http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html I've mentioned it in the above post as well.

Newcastle to Middlesbrough is to be a 'Northern Connect' service using refurbished 158s.

 

[cuccir]

Major changes for Barrow and the Furness Line then. Dropping to one operator will mean reduced competition on the line, but Sunday services up the Cumbria Coast and 8 through trains to Manchester a day will both be welcome!
-
In the North-East, a note that the Metrocentre station will be upgraded. It will be interesting to see how this is done - the facilities at the moment are very limited and very tired. The challenge will be to provide something that people actually want to use, given that there's a wopping big shopping center next door!

 

[47802]

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html

* Sounds like the existing service will be truncated to allow more EMUs to operate to Blackpool.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



.

I'm sure that will be popular with visitors from Yorkshire to Blackpool, my Dad uses that service quite a bit but at his age he wont be using it if he has to change trains.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

There's also the possibility of the Sheffield via Moorthorpe going electric if the gap is filled in, though that isn't confirmed at present. Not sure about moving the Nottingham services to that route though, I'm surprised there's room for an extra semi-fast between Leeds and the junction at Moorthorpe/South Elmsall.

Looks like there will still be a fast Leeds-Sheffield service via Barnsley though hourly rather than half hourly as it is at present, what with the through trains to Nottingham being rerouted. I'm not sure about extending this service to Lincoln though - when the Huddersfield-Sheffield services used to run on to Lincoln they always seemed to get delayed.

From a personal point of view, the extra line capacity will hopefully enable Elsecar to get its stop back on Huddersfield services, though the wording "the new operator will seek to provide half-hourly services at Elsecar" is a bit vague. Why "will seek to provide" rather than "will provide"?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Major changes for Barrow and the Furness Line then. Dropping to one operator will mean reduced competition on the line, but Sunday services up the Cumbria Coast and 8 through trains to Manchester a day will both be welcome!

Outside of a few journeys, "competition" isn't really a thing anyway. Improvements to Sunday services are welcome, but I'm disappointed that some services that are currently hourly during the week aren't being improved. In particular the Penistone line could do with 2tph during the day but doing so would require a new loop at Lockwood or Honley.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Presumably there will still be a fast Sheffield-Leeds service via Barnsley though hourly rather than half hourly as it is at present, what with the through trains to Nottingham being rerouted.
From a personal point of view, the extra line capacity will hopefully enable Elsecar to get its stop back on Huddersfield services, though the wording "the new operator will seek to provide half-hourly services at Elsecar" is a bit vague. Why "will seek to provide" rather than "will provide"?

I read it as the Leeds to Sheffield semi-fasts will stay at 2tph but will both terminate at Sheffield. The Elsecar issue I think will need infrastructure improvements or a complete recast of the timetable to allow more calls there.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Looks like a number of tpe 185's may transfer to northern. They were mooted on blackpool-scarborough, warrington and calder valley workings. 350's may also transfer over so liverpool blackpool maybe?

 

[AM9]

Hopefully, this will now signal the nail in the Home Counties coffin containing the usual "What shall we do with our old trains when our new ones arrive...Let's send them up North to Northern" mantra.

I doubt it. The sheer volume of stock in the south-east becoming unfit for purpose there, would not be allowed to waste away when it can fulfil a role elsewhere (for political reasons alone). Maybe when all lines eligible for electrification in the north are complete and stocked appropriately, the ex-south-east equipment with revenue earning life left, will be found new owners, there's always the north-east, South Wales and the west country. Scotland seems quite content to use stock form elsewhere.