Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

[simon7929]

Barnsley to Sheffield would have been Northern Spirit territory in the late 90s.

I wouldn't have thought it would have been a Merseyrail unit as they were under control of FNW and wouldn't have operated along that line back then. The T&W Pacers did operate on that line. I have a photo somewhere of 142017 at Sheffield in that livery.

 

[Geeves]

I was going to reply with the same as Simon as there were 17 yellow Merseyrail pacers that went everywhere in RR days

 

[simon7929]

Merseyrail Pacers would of worked in to Sheffield in the late 90s. However only on the line from Manchester via Edale which was under control of FNW in them days.

 

[tomos dafis]

Merseyrail Pacers would of worked in to Sheffield in the late 90s. However only on the line from Manchester via Edale which was under control of FNW in them days.

Thanks to Simon and Geeves for reminding me of the yellow (and some white?) livery on some Northern Pacers in the 90's. I had 2 return journeys in these from Manchester Piccadily to Edale in the Hope valley - they were working stopping services from Manchester to Sheffield along the Hope valley.

 

[KevinTurvey]

I've been looking for early footage of pacers with the original Leyland engines and SCG gearboxes, but I cant seem to find very much at all (I've kind of forgotten what they sounded like) - does anyone have any links?
I do remember when they first came out the gear changes could be quite violent, but from a standing start they were really nippy!

Also when they changed the transmissions the idle speed seemed quite high, did this have any contribution to do with 'melting' the engines which has already been mentioned.

 

[Whattraintoday]

I've been looking for early footage of pacers with the original Leyland engines and SCG gearboxes, but I cant seem to find very much at all (I've kind of forgotten what they sounded like) - does anyone have any links?
I do remember when they first came out the gear changes could be quite violent, but from a standing start they were really nippy!

Also when they changed the transmissions the idle speed seemed quite high, did this have any contribution to do with 'melting' the engines which has already been mentioned.

There’s something here, from about 3:25

Edit: it’s a 144, not sure what gearboxes were fitted new but it sounds like the original Leyland engines

 

[sprinterguy]

Interesting. Wonder which one it was then as it was definitely yellow!

If your observation was based on a carriage number ending '13' then it was probably 142022, which includes vehicle 55613.

 

[leo knight]

This thread is supposed to be about Pacer Withdrawals instead its about Pacer fans reminiscing about life they have had on these sad inferior trains. Can't we have any news or when these sad pathetic rubbish trains are being phased out Please.

 

[davart]

This thread is supposed to be about Pacer Withdrawals instead its about Pacer fans reminiscing about life they have had on these sad inferior trains. Can't we have any news or when these sad pathetic rubbish trains are being phased out Please.

And Merry Christmas to you too, Sir!

 

[Eccles1983]

This thread is supposed to be about Pacer Withdrawals instead its about Pacer fans reminiscing about life they have had on these sad inferior trains. Can't we have any news or when these sad pathetic rubbish trains are being phased out Please.

Well to please you.

They are going no-where. I expect a 2 year extension.

 

[anamyd]

Delete

 

[Chester1]

Well to please you.

They are going no-where. I expect a 2 year extension.

Sarcasm or do really think that? There has been real progress with their replacements so no reason to seek a derogation for use after 2019.

 

[BantamMenace]

Does anybody have an estimate of what it would cost for a heritage operation or private buyer to buy a Pacer after their withdrawal from service? I’m guessing this would be something close to their scrap value as the only other buyers will scrap yards (unlikely to be any interest from overseas operators). Is there any recent history on prices paid for scrapped trains?

 

[davart]

I'm no expert in the matter, but having looked online, this was from April this year I believe.

Surprised Northern haven't snapped it up...

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'm no expert in the matter, but having looked online, this was from April this year I believe.

Surprised Northern haven't snapped it up...

So all in 30 grand. Could've got it down to 28.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Well to please you.

They are going no-where. I expect a 200 year extension.

Fixed that for you!

In all seriousness though I do expect to see soem of the better examples being kept in service for extra capacity until more accessable units head to Northern.

 

[Billy A]

I've been looking for early footage of pacers with the original Leyland engines and SCG gearboxes, but I cant seem to find very much at all (I've kind of forgotten what they sounded like) - does anyone have any links?
I do remember when they first came out the gear changes could be quite violent, but from a standing start they were really nippy!

Also when they changed the transmissions the idle speed seemed quite high, did this have any contribution to do with 'melting' the engines which has already been mentioned.

Haven't found any, but there's a training film of how to drive a predecessor with SCG boxes here:

 

[Chester1]

Fixed that for you!

In all seriousness though I do expect to see soem of the better examples being kept in service for extra capacity until more accessable units head to Northern.

Until which units arrive? What I am missing that makes many members sure Pacers will stay past end of 2019?

My perspective:

1) Manchester to Preston electrification - being tested

2) 769s - due in service earlier this year but now seem to be early next year. Highly likely all 8 will be in service by end of 2019

3) 195s - delayed but arriving in UK. Software and union issues.

4) Cascaded stock - behind schedule but significant numbers have arrived during 2018

5) Refurbishments - behind schedule but most PRM-TSI work should be done by end of 2019

It seems to me Northern may need a small number of derogations for other units if PRM work over runs but not for the pacers themselves. The DOO dispute will cause problems but do people really think the 195s won't enter service in significant by end of next year?

 

[anamyd]

So all in 30 grand. Could've got it down to 28.

£30,000!!! compared to what it would have cost brand new (in today's money) I suppose that's a fair price... And it was actually still in service earlier this year still with Leyland and SCG! Some videos on YouTube

 

[Mogster]

Until which units arrive? What I am missing that makes many members sure Pacers will stay past end of 2019?

My perspective:

1) Manchester to Preston electrification - being tested

2) 769s - due in service earlier this year but now seem to be early next year. Highly likely all 8 will be in service by end of 2019

3) 195s - delayed but arriving in UK. Software and union issues.

4) Cascaded stock - behind schedule but significant numbers have arrived during 2018

5) Refurbishments - behind schedule but most PRM-TSI work should be done by end of 2019

It seems to me Northern may need a small number of derogations for other units if PRM work over runs but not for the pacers themselves. The DOO dispute will cause problems but do people really think the 195s won't enter service in significant by end of next year?

I think some people posting here are in denial or just don’t actually use Northern’s services... Northern fail has sometimes been showing over 100 short formed services some days recently. Surely that represents a catastrophic stock shortage?

I’m no Pacer supporter but I don’t see how they can be scrapped wholesale when it will lead to services not running or ridiculous overcrowding. Or maybe I should say making the overcrowding even worse as it’s terrible already...

 

[Mordac]

I think some people posting here are in denial or just don’t actually use Northern’s services... Northern fail has sometimes been showing over 100 short formed services some days recently. Surely that represents a catastrophic stock shortage?

I’m no Pacer supporter but I don’t see how they can be scrapped wholesale when it will lead to services not running or ridiculous overcrowding. Or maybe I should say making the overcrowding even worse as it’s terrible already...

It depends on what the causes of the short-forms are.

 

[Killingworth]

It depends on what the causes of the short-forms are.

And several trains may be short formed but it's probably only one actual unit missing from perhaps 4 or more trains during the day.

 

[alansheppard77]

Fixed that for you!

In all seriousness though I do expect to see soem of the better examples being kept in service for extra capacity until more accessable units head to Northern.

as long as its the 144s not the awfull 142s

 

[Chester1]

I think some people posting here are in denial or just don’t actually use Northern’s services... Northern fail has sometimes been showing over 100 short formed services some days recently. Surely that represents a catastrophic stock shortage?

I’m no Pacer supporter but I don’t see how they can be scrapped wholesale when it will lead to services not running or ridiculous overcrowding. Or maybe I should say making the overcrowding even worse as it’s terrible already...

As another member has pointed out even 100 short formed services means considerably fewer units are missing. I use Northern services on a daily basis and obviously things are not great now. However, it is not delusional to think the Pacers will go when the fleet will be larger in January 2020 without Pacers than it is now and with PRM hopefully done there should be a larger proportion of units in service each day.

It depends on what the causes of the short-forms are.

I think its mostly due to the refurbishment work and inability to use all their EMUs to componsate.

 

[Chris217]

I remember Tyne & Wear yellow Pacers.
Around in the early the 90s I think.
On Pacer withdrawals,how could someone
show so much hate for a train?
Unless you are continuously inconvenienced by their existence!

My earliest recollection of Pacers travelling on a set out of Lime St.and the front car changing gear before the rear car which was still screaming in first gear
Awesome!
Loved them since day 1 in Liverpool.
How many Northern sets have been taken out of service so far?

 

[43096]

Does anybody have an estimate of what it would cost for a heritage operation or private buyer to buy a Pacer after their withdrawal from service? I’m guessing this would be something close to their scrap value as the only other buyers will scrap yards (unlikely to be any interest from overseas operators). Is there any recent history on prices paid for scrapped trains?

It depends who you are buying from and what you are buying for. As an example, Porterbrook disposed of many of the Southern DEMUs several years ago to preserved lines/organisations virtually as giveaways - it’s good PR for the ROSCO and removes the need to store them and send for scrap.

 

[davart]

Hmmmm,

We should all chip-in and buy one...

Not sure I'd get away with running a heritage railway on the Penistone line during the morning peak. 'Retro-metro' anyone?

However, if it was punctual and reliable, not to mention cheaper...

 

[driver_m]

Maybe there's a case here for a heritage line with a difference .Have the St Helens Central Junction line took over by volunteers off NR for a peppercorn rent and just run a variety of tarted up nodding donkeys on the line! Acquire some scrap track, and there you have it . A big train set with the added bonus of trying to stop arsonists ruining your fun on a nightly basis .

(Might need a shed as well and some good pointing skills for some of the brick bridges)

 

[sprinterguy]

I remember Tyne & Wear yellow Pacers.
Around in the early the 90s I think.

1993 to 2003, pretty much.

How many Northern sets have been taken out of service so far?

None.

 

[Chris217]

142094
Liverpool Lime Street 28/10/18