Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[samuelmorris]

Thank you very much Geeves. Totally unexpected and don't they look nice without stripes. White stripes on purple is just too contrasty. I would say passengers will be very happy with them if they are all done to this standard and are reliable. Whatever happens don't let the Londoners see them otherwise they may want them back.

I can't see the Londoners wanting them back over the 387s or 700s, but as for some of the other commuter stock in the Southeast... maybe :P

Is that the same PIS they use in units like the 321s at the moment? Because the reliability of those things is dreadful!

 

[Class377/5]

I really don't think one loo is enough.The units are 4 cars and will later on be used on journeys certainly of 1.5 hours and longer. It is frequently the case that loos are out of order (so none on the Train) and that's not to mention those thoughtless people who will occupy one for most of their journey for various reasons.

There little choice as the two loo aren't accessible so one accessible loo is being provided. To give two loos will require a significant drop in capacity.

PIS has already been added, this is the same refurb as the Thameslink one I posted a couple of pages back.

Ah so they getting the full treatment then. Missed the CIS on the picture Id seen. Good spot. Full treatment does make sense with the delay to requiring the units and the additional units arriving shortly.

 

[edwin_m]

Would it even be possible to fit an accessible and a non-accessible toilet in the same coach end, sharing the same tanks as the two small toilets presumably do today? I believe a few of the 319s have this arrangement but it may not comply with latest accessibility regulations. Fitting another toilet somewhere else in the train would be better but would involve adding extra water and retention tanks.

 

[physics34]

they managed to fit an accessible and a standard toilet into the connex express 319/2s, in the same end so dont know why they couldnt have done that here.

 

[156441]

Time lapse of progress so far and pictures including the full set and end livery now available on the Northern Website northern 319 page

 

[user15681]

Well, that front end looks a bit different!

http://www.northernrail.org/images/news/northern_class_319-10.JPG

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very smart.

Neil

 

[Whistler40145]

Very smart indeed.

 

[samj]

I guess that is vinyl? That's a shame as looks a lot better in paint. Front end looks strange too not sure if I am a fan but am sure it will grow on me. Are Northern DMUs still being repainted again too? Am sure after 4 years they were due another overhaul.

 

[WatcherZero]

Im surprised their cutting the vinyl by hand, I would have thought they would have been pre-cut.

 

[Starmill]

I can't see the Londoners wanting them back over the 387s or 700s, but as for some of the other commuter stock in the Southeast... maybe :P

Is that the same PIS they use in units like the 321s at the moment? Because the reliability of those things is dreadful!

It's just a refresh with deep clean, new seat cushions and toilet.

It falls far short of the standard of the two demonstrator trains on Greater Anglia at present.

It looks good - as good as the 156s treatment.

 

[Geeves]

They will be adding the final details on at Allerton but I believe the regular Northern logo followed by the OHLE Flash and Northern eletrics 400M Somewhere. Soon see anyway!

 

[Emyr]

Im surprised their cutting the vinyl by hand, I would have thought they would have been pre-cut.

The contours of each carriage will have aged differently and need varying amounts of heat, pressure and tension to achieve proper coverage.

Pre-cut vinyl is typically used for typography and graphics with few colours, but ideally only on surfaces that are flat and smooth.

 

[ajdunlop]

Any idea what kind of luggage and cycle space there are on these trains? The 1 redeeming feature of most of Northern's current fleet is that they are pretty good for bikes.

 

[156441]

Seating/storage layout is exactly the same as under FCC so if someone knows how good they were under FCC they'll be able to give you the answer to that!

 

[Bringback309s]

Whats happening to the first class area? Or are Northern keeping it as first class?

 

[northwichcat]

Whats happening to the first class area? Or are Northern keeping it as first class?

The ones which have been transferred so far did not have a First Class area.

 

[fgwrich]

Well, that front end looks a bit different!

http://www.northernrail.org/images/news/northern_class_319-10.JPG

Looking at those images, it appears that the new Northern livery is in effect a Northernised version of SWT - if you look at the cab area you'll just about notice a band of deeper lilac rising up and running along the bottom half of each coach, in a similar pattern to that of SWTs livery. Doesn't look too bad though, and makes a change to see some investment in the incoming fleet for a change at Northern, unlike the 150s of course!

 

[physics34]

really dislike the fact that doors have to be highlighted because of the disabilities act...... liveries look so much better with out that IMO.

And does it really make much of a difference to the poorly sighted......

London Buses went for ages with Illuminous Yellow destination blinds to help the poorly sighted, but have switched back to white after it was proven they dont help at all!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

really dislike the fact that doors have to be highlighted because of the disabilities act...... liveries look so much better with out that IMO.

And does it really make much of a difference to the poorly sighted......

London Buses went for ages with Illuminous Yellow destination blinds to help the poorly sighted, but have switched back to white after it was proven they dont help at all!

The door highlights aren't just to aid the visually impaired (and by the way I did ask a friend of mine who is partially sighted whether it helps, and he said it did) but also to aid rescue in the event of a derailment. If you were trapped in a darkened 319 that had overturned I imagine you'd want rescuers to be able to get to you as quickly as possible.

We went years with timber-framed carriages and then Mk1 type designs where the bodyshells would come away from the chassis in the event of a derailment. The fact that not everyone died is not a reason to not bother trying to improve safety.

 

[Class377/5]

really dislike the fact that doors have to be highlighted because of the disabilities act...... liveries look so much better with out that IMO.

And does it really make much of a difference to the poorly sighted......

London Buses went for ages with Illuminous Yellow destination blinds to help the poorly sighted, but have switched back to white after it was proven they dont help at all!

I find your post a bit offensive (but don't believe you were intending to be) as you seem to be suggestions only people with bad eye sight require the difference. What about colour blind people that have eye sight that's fine for every day usage but would find same colour difficult to make out.

Looks is now where near as important as accessibility and making the railway inclusive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I find your post a bit offensive (but don't believe you were intending to be) as you seem to be suggestions only people with bad eye sight require the difference. What about colour blind people that have eye sight that's fine for every day usage but would find same colour difficult to make out.

Looks is now where near as important as accessibility and making the railway inclusive.

I too felt somewhat offended by the wording of the posting that you allude to. Thank you for making this posting.

 

[Via Bank]

really dislike the fact that doors have to be highlighted because of the disabilities act...... liveries look so much better with out that IMO.

And does it really make much of a difference to the poorly sighted......

Yes.

London Buses went for ages with Illuminous Yellow destination blinds to help the poorly sighted, but have switched back to white after it was proven they dont help at all!

It was never proven they don't help, it was just decided that since the lighting on bus blinds is generally brighter and more even nowadays, with thicker typefaces, and since the fluorescent blinds would fade to white over time anyway, a change to WOB was justified. (Leon Daniels also had a say, as I recall. He preferred the "classic" look.)

It is not really comparable to train doors. Painting them a contrasting colour not only helps visually impaired people, but also helps fully sighted people because it helps to be able to locate the doors (which might be flush against the carriage) quickly.

Aesthetics aren't worth anything if they mean people have trouble getting on the train.

 

[JaJaWa]

London Buses went for ages with Illuminous Yellow destination blinds to help the poorly sighted, but have switched back to white after it was proven they dont help at all!

London Buses switching to white blinds is due to Boris Johnson's nostalgia rather than any sensible reasoning - it's been criticised by disability groups.

Edit: just seen this has been posted above.

 

[physics34]

Yes.



It was never proven they don't help, it was just decided that since the lighting on bus blinds is generally brighter and more even nowadays, with thicker typefaces, and since the fluorescent blinds would fade to white over time anyway, a change to WOB was justified. (Leon Daniels also had a say, as I recall. He preferred the "classic" look.)

It is not really comparable to train doors. Painting them a contrasting colour not only helps visually impaired people, but also helps fully sighted people because it helps to be able to locate the doors (which might be flush against the carriage) quickly.

Aesthetics aren't worth anything if they mean people have trouble getting on the train.

ok, fair enough with the bus blinds.

But doors didnt have colours around them for over a century with no trouble at all. I just think its over the top. If we have this then surely pavements should be painted bright yellow so people can see what is the pavement or everyone should wear bright colours so visibily impaired people dont bump in to you..

 

[AM9]

ok, fair enough with the bus blinds.

But doors didnt have colours around them for over a century with no trouble at all. I just think its over the top. If we have this then surely pavements should be painted bright yellow so people can see what is the pavement or everyone should wear bright colours so visibily impaired people dont bump in to you..

Blind people or those with impaired vision didn't go out alone much. Now we have a number of measures that help those unfortunate to have less than good sight have some independence. Do you want to take that away from them so that public transport looks pleasing to your eyes?

I won't waste my time reacting to your strawman comment.

 

[northwichcat]

But doors didnt have colours around them for over a century with no trouble at all. I just think its over the top. If we have this then surely pavements should be painted bright yellow so people can see what is the pavement or everyone should wear bright colours so visibily impaired people dont bump in to you..

Have you not used a pedestrian crossing recently? You'd normally notice the pavement go red and bumpy before a traffic light controlled crossing or yellow and bumpy before other types of crossings.

On newer trains like Desiros I think it would be considerably harder for passengers with limited vision to see where the doors were (if they weren't painted a different colour) than on old BR stock like the 319s.

 

[samuelmorris]

It's just a refresh with deep clean, new seat cushions and toilet.

It falls far short of the standard of the two demonstrator trains on Greater Anglia at present.

Yes but the difference is, this is actually happening to more than one unit...

 

[physics34]

I find your post a bit offensive (but don't believe you were intending to be) as you seem to be suggestions only people with bad eye sight require the difference. What about colour blind people that have eye sight that's fine for every day usage but would find same colour difficult to make out.

Looks is now where near as important as accessibility and making the railway inclusive.

Its all about numbers. The percentage of people who are so poorly sighted that they cannot distinguish between a door and a window... would they be out on their own on a station trying to catch a train?... and if they were wouldnt they need a guide dog anyway, to find the station entrance, to find the right platform, to walk up the stairs??!

If so it would be a minute percentage. Just saying. No offense intended.

 

[455driver]

should have gone for 2+2 seating even if they used the existing seats.
Much better to travel on without everyone elbowing each other and more standing room so capacity actually increases even though you have less seats, similar to what SWT did with the 455s.

Overall though quite a nice refresh.