Northern Service Reductions from 4th Jan 2022

[Iskra]

Stuck in Barnsley again multiple trains to Chapeltown cancelled, another 2 hour service gap on what should be a 2tph line.

This is the third time out of three journeys that this has happened to me recently.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Friday afternoon saw a series of cancellations on the remaining Adwick-Sheffield services. Nothing between the 1124 and 1724 from Adwick. Luckily for me, they put in extra stops on a Scarborough-Sheff at 1421 from Doncaster.
Maybe there’s a temporary solution there, to combine those with the stopper between Sheff/Don and tell Adwick and Bentley passengers to use the Leeds/Donc electric services

 

[sycns]

Friday afternoon saw a series of cancellations on the remaining Adwick-Sheffield services. Nothing between the 1124 and 1724 from Adwick. Luckily for me, they put in extra stops on a Scarborough-Sheff at 1421 from Doncaster.
Maybe there’s a temporary solution there, to combine those with the stopper between Sheff/Don and tell Adwick and Bentley passengers to use the Leeds/Donc electric services

I’ve been suggesting this to Northern for months, including when the Don-Sheff stoppers were replacement buses to be told it’s impossible for them to stop the Hull fasts at local stations between Doncaster & Sheffield.

 

[Andyh82]

Maybe now that it's affecting Leeds passengers, there'll be someone important who takes notice - it's clearly been fine for them to cut services like Sheffield to Doncaster or Wakefield to Huddersfield - maybe the prospect of South Yorkshire services into Leeds missing will be the point at which the managers start to pay attention?

Funny you should say that, now it’s effecting the Airedale and Wharfedale lines, it was the main story on yesterday’s Look North

(You can see what they said on BBC iPlayer)

 

[Mat17]

Funny you should say that, now it’s effecting the Airedale and Wharfedale lines, it was the main story on yesterday’s Look North

(You can see what they said on BBC iPlayer)

I thought the exact same thing!

 

[sycns]

Funny you should say that, now it’s effecting the Airedale and Wharfedale lines, it was the main story on yesterday’s Look North

(You can see what they said on BBC iPlayer)

Headlines on the story. Ilkley to Bradford trains cut to hourly OUTSIDE PEAK TIMES! Meanwhile Conisbrough, Mexborough & Swinton are left with slashes in their timetable all day long including the main commuter service from Sheffield in the evening!

 

[IBLRG]

Currently suspended from January, the Saturday only Sheffield Midland to Cleethorpes via Brigg service does not even have a replacement bus service from say Retford to Barnetby to at least connect the communities to some form of railway service elsewhere.

 

[Deerfold]

Headlines on the story. Ilkley to Bradford trains cut to hourly OUTSIDE PEAK TIMES! Meanwhile Conisbrough, Mexborough & Swinton are left with slashes in their timetable all day long including the main commuter service from Sheffield in the evening!

The ilkley to Bradford trains will be hourly except for 1 extra service from Bradford and 2 to Bradford, both in the morning peak.

 

[tbtc]

Funny you should say that, now it’s effecting the Airedale and Wharfedale lines, it was the main story on yesterday’s Look North

(You can see what they said on BBC iPlayer)

Haha - typical media - it's fine for stations in South Yorkshire to go down from a half hourly train to every ninety minutes (assuming that Northern do manage to run their "reduced" service, of course), but when there are services reduced in West Yorkshire, it suddenly hits the headlines... some things never change, eh?

Feels like local trains here are the most ignored part of the most ignored franchise, well down at the bottom of the food chain!

Currently suspended from January, the Saturday only Sheffield Midland to Cleethorpes via Brigg service does not even have a replacement bus service from say Retford to Barnetby to at least connect the communities to some form of railway service elsewhere.

That's poor - it was a lovely day yesterday, lots of crows at both Sheffield and Leeds - trains buoyant with the stag/hen nights, the racing crowds, the groups that you get when there's no "big" football games on - yet nothing from South Yorkshire to Cleethorpes - on a day when the railway could have made a killing from people heading to the seaside

 

[YorksLad12]

Haha - typical media - it's fine for stations in South Yorkshire to go down from a half hourly train to every ninety minutes (assuming that Northern do manage to run their "reduced" service, of course), but when there are services reduced in West Yorkshire, it suddenly hits the headlines... some things never change, eh?

Feels like local trains here are the most ignored part of the most ignored franchise, well down at the bottom of the food chain!

In fairness... perhaps if the local politicians got together like they do in West Yorkshire and kicked up more of a stink, this would have been a story earlier? I think the cuts in South Yorkshire are wrong too, but even allowing for crew availability being worse at some depots than others the cuts will be come accepted if TPTB don't keep the pressure up.

 

[30907]

Haha - typical media - it's fine for stations in South Yorkshire to go down from a half hourly train to every ninety minutes (assuming that Northern do manage to run their "reduced" service, of course), but when there are services reduced in West Yorkshire, it suddenly hits the headlines... some things never change, eh?

Maybe because Northern have apparently managed to cut a long-standing and busy peak shoulder train serving a well-connected independent day school?

That's poor - it was a lovely day yesterday, lots of crows at both Sheffield and Leeds - trains buoyant with the stag/hen nights, the racing crowds, the groups that you get when there's no "big" football games on - yet nothing from South Yorkshire to Cleethorpes - on a day when the railway could have made a killing from people heading to the seaside

Wot, no TPEs either?

 

[Spartacus]

Haha - typical media - it's fine for stations in South Yorkshire to go down from a half hourly train to every ninety minutes (assuming that Northern do manage to run their "reduced" service, of course), but when there are services reduced in West Yorkshire, it suddenly hits the headlines... some things never change, eh?

Feels like local trains here are the most ignored part of the most ignored franchise, well down at the bottom of the food chain!

All depends on WHAT part of West Yorkshire you're in, total withdrawal of Huddersfield - Castleford (I bet Network Rail are wondering why they're planning bothering giving Raventhorpe platforms on the Wakefield route) and reductions around Pontefract and Knottingley have also practically been ignored up until now.

Wot, no TPEs either?

Engineering work between Doncaster and Scunthorpe I believe.

 

[stew]

The last 3-4 trains of the day from Preston to Blackpool South were cancelled and a replacement bus was provided

 

[30907]

All depends on WHAT part of West Yorkshire you're in, total withdrawal of Huddersfield - Castleford (I bet Network Rail are wondering why they're planning bothering giving Raventhorpe platforms on the Wakefield route) and reductions around Pontefract and Knottingley have also practically been ignored up until now.

The problem is that they are no longer "news" having gone on so long - whereas the Leeds NW cuts are, with a virtually full service having operated for some time. Not saying they are a good idea.

Engineering work between Doncaster and Scunthorpe I believe.

Thanks

 

[YorksLad12]

All depends on WHAT part of West Yorkshire you're in, total withdrawal of Huddersfield - Castleford (I bet Network Rail are wondering why they're planning bothering giving Raventhorpe platforms on the Wakefield route) and reductions around Pontefract and Knottingley have also practically been ignored up until now.

The problem is that they are no longer "news" having gone on so long - whereas the Leeds NW cuts are, with a virtually full service having operated for some time. Not saying they are a good idea.

The WYCA release on the website does mention the Huddersfield-Wakefield-Castleford route, and the new cuts between Pontefract and Wakefield. There's isn't a comparable bus service (certainly not in terms of time) on the former route and Arriva's cutting bus services in Wakefield & Kirklees as well. The new train cuts are new (hence 'news') but I've not seen any acceptance of the loss of Hudds-Cas - unlike Sheffield-York, which is a bit unloved by every authority it passes through.

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately the sad reality is that there's a strong economic case for the fast, frequent services between Leeds city centre and the Airedale and Wharfedale towns.

No similar case exists for services between Huddersfield and Castleford, they were very poorly used, and neither Castleford nor Wakefield is a major traffic draw. It's obviously a useful service from a connectivity perspective and should of course be subsidised to continue, but it's also not a priority compared with the Airedale line.

 

[swissrailpassion]

I don't see the point of the two hourly Halifax Hull service. The old Selby terminators were far more useful and used less stock.

 

[northernchris]

I don't see the point of the two hourly Halifax Hull service. The old Selby terminators were far more useful and used less stock.

The Hull - Halifax services do get very busy, it's very common for services arriving in Leeds from Hull to be overcrowded. It also provides a second service each hour between Leeds and Hull and provides a link from the east Leeds local stations to Bradford and Halifax.

 

[Starmill]

The Hull - Halifax services do get very busy, it's very common for services arriving in Leeds from Hull to be overcrowded. It also provides a second service each hour between Leeds and Hull and provides a link from the east Leeds local stations to Bradford and Halifax.

I think that what they were getting at was it could be a Selby - Halifax hourly service and the benefits might be bigger.

 

[HullRailMan]

I think that what they were getting at was it could be a Selby - Halifax hourly service and the benefits might be bigger.

I think that’s a fair point. A wider issue is the Hull-Leeds route where TPE are falling apart so, if Northern withdrew fully for now, the link from Hull to the main regional centre would be a total shambles. At times TPE have left gaps of upto 6 hours recently on this alleged hourly service, so Northern is the more reliable option at the moment. If anything, I’d keep this going and cut back the York service to a connecting York-Selby shuttle.

 

[casual onion]

I'll admit it's unlikely we'll ever get the useful Sheffield - York direct train back, but even if Swinton gets an hourly service again I'd be happy. As it stands, come April, if you left York at 5, you'd have to wait til 6 to meet a connection at Doncaster. £70 a week it's costing in petrol. Appalling service

 

[Spartacus]

No similar case exists for services between Huddersfield and Castleford, they were very poorly used, and neither Castleford nor Wakefield is a major traffic draw. It's obviously a useful service from a connectivity perspective and should of course be subsidised to continue, but it's also not a priority compared with the Airedale line.

You need to see the road traffic trying to get into Wakefield at times... The trouble is that some of the places producing that traffic don't have a station on the route. I'm not sure how much Ravensthorpe's rebuilding but I've always though stations at Horbury and especially Dewsbury Saville Town/Thornhill could change the fortunes of the route massively. I don't think diverting the service from Huddersfield to Castleford vice Westgate did it any favours either.

 

[yorksrob]

Unfortunately the sad reality is that there's a strong economic case for the fast, frequent services between Leeds city centre and the Airedale and Wharfedale towns.

No similar case exists for services between Huddersfield and Castleford, they were very poorly used, and neither Castleford nor Wakefield is a major traffic draw. It's obviously a useful service from a connectivity perspective and should of course be subsidised to continue, but it's also not a priority compared with the Airedale line.

I found that they could be quite busy between Wakefield and Huddersfield.

 

[Adam0984]

The Huddersfield to Wakefield train lost its appeal when it stopped going to Westgate, the bulk of the passengers were long distance travellers connecting onto mainline London and XC services as well as the school traffic to Queen Elizabeth Grammar School/Wakefield Girls High (a stones throw away from Westgate) and college and uni students at Huddersfield

 

[YorksLad12]

The Huddersfield to Wakefield train lost its appeal when it stopped going to Westgate, the bulk of the passengers were long distance travellers connecting onto mainline London and XC services as well as the school traffic to Queen Elizabeth Grammar School/Wakefield Girls High (a stones throw away from Westgate) and college and uni students at Huddersfield

Yes. It would be great if you could run Huddersfield-Westgate-Kirkgate-beyond, but that would require building one heck of a viaduct!

 

[Adam0984]

A bay platform should have been built at Westgate when they redeveloped it where the old station building was, the issue was the slow shunt from the platform into Wrenthorpe sidings, if they'd built a bay platform it could have pulled in there and wouldn't have being in the way, or some points in the centre of platform 1 so it could have stopped at the south end then into the middle road and sat there then pulled back into platform 1 to depart

 

[Starmill]

You need to see the road traffic trying to get into Wakefield at times... The trouble is that some of the places producing that traffic don't have a station on the route. I'm not sure how much Ravensthorpe's rebuilding but I've always though stations at Horbury and especially Dewsbury Saville Town/Thornhill could change the fortunes of the route massively. I don't think diverting the service from Huddersfield to Castleford vice Westgate did it any favours either.

A station at Horbury, in combination with the changes at Ravensthorpe, would be a game changer. Perhaps achievable by 2030.

 

[Roast Veg]

I've always though stations at Horbury and especially Dewsbury Saville Town/Thornhill could change the fortunes of the route massively.

A station at Horbury, in combination with the changes at Ravensthorpe, would be a game changer. Perhaps achievable by 2030.

Agreed on both counts, but there's no way we'd get it even by 2030 without planning starting today.

 

[johntea]

Oddly enough the token Castleford - Huddersfield rail replacement services are still in the timetables from May which doesn't seem to make any real sense if the rail service is never coming back!

 

[scrapy]

The Hull - Halifax services do get very busy, it's very common for services arriving in Leeds from Hull to be overcrowded. It also provides a second service each hour between Leeds and Hull and provides a link from the east Leeds local stations to Bradford and Halifax.

Yes I was amazed how busy one was leaving Leeds towards Hull on a Wednesday lunchtime recently, and the TPE services either side were also running. The 4 car 158 had very few seats left.