Northern Smart Card

[johntea]

I saw a poster for the Northern ‘smart card’ and couldn’t help but notice this gem in the FAQs on the website!

Can I get off somewhere, then catch a later train to complete my journey using my Smartcard?
No. Break of Journey is not available on Smart at present

What on earth are Northern thinking with that?! It’s a standard season ticket!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I saw a poster for the Northern ‘smart card’ and couldn’t help but notice this gem in the FAQs on the website!

Can I get off somewhere, then catch a later train to complete my journey using my Smartcard?
No. Break of Journey is not available on Smart at present

What on earth are Northern thinking with that?! It’s a standard season ticket!

Indeed, you would have to be mad to give up that significant right in exchange for nothing at all, not even a reduction in the season ticket cost!

 

[Hadders]

This just sums Northern up.

How anything they do can be described as 'smart' is beyond me....

 

[Intermodal]

How is this enforced? How can they detect and/or stop you from doing it? Surely it is in breach of the NRCoT?

 

[TUC]

Ate Northern even allowed to not permit break of journey?

Condition 36.2 of the NRCoT states 'A Season Ticket gives you the right to unlimited travel on train services between specific stations or within specific geographic zones during the period up to and including the Season Ticket’s expiry date. This includes the right to start, break or resume your journey, as described in Condition 16.3. It may only be used by the person to whom, or on whose behalf, it was issued.'

16.3 states 'Generally, you may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the Ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. However, this may not be the case with some through services that take an indirect route. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) before the destination shown on the Ticket.'

I cannot see anything there which permits restrictions for season tickets on smart cards.

 

[yorkie]

I saw a poster for the Northern ‘smart card’ and couldn’t help but notice this gem in the FAQs on the website!

Can I get off somewhere, then catch a later train to complete my journey using my Smartcard?
No. Break of Journey is not available on Smart at present

What on earth are Northern thinking with that?! It’s a standard season ticket!

You could send an FOI request to the DfT asking if permission was granted for this, and if it is, for a copy of all relevant correspondence. And, if not, details of enforcement action taken.

 

[Intermodal]

Ate Northern even allowed to not permit break of journey?

Condition 36.2 of the NRCoT states 'A Season Ticket gives you the right to unlimited travel on train services between specific stations or within specific geographic zones during the period up to and including the Season Ticket’s expiry date. This includes the right to start, break or resume your journey, as described in Condition 16.3. It may only be used by the person to whom, or on whose behalf, it was issued.'

16.3 states 'Generally, you may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the Ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. However, this may not be the case with some through services that take an indirect route. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return Ticket) before the destination shown on the Ticket.'

I cannot see anything there which permits restrictions for season tickets on smart cards.

Exactly. My advice to anyone using such a ticket would be to completely ignore this 'restriction'.

 

[Intermodal]

I saw a poster for the Northern ‘smart card’ and couldn’t help but notice this gem in the FAQs on the website!

Can you link to the page, please?

 

[_toommm_]

Can you link to the page, please?

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/smart-trial

TPE have one too:

https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/train-tickets/smart-tickets

 

[_toommm_]

Can I get off somewhere, then catch a later train to complete my journey using my Smartcard?
No. Break of Journey is not available on Smart at present.

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/smart

 

[janb]

Good news. The Northern Break of Journey thing was an error, and has now been corrected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good news. The Northern Break of Journey thing was an error, and has now been corrected.

Good. I suspect it might have originated from some kind of issue relating to PAYG, which indeed can't support BoJ as when you touch out it ends the journey.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Of course, these cards can only be used on Northern Services. And require a top-up at a physical ticket office.

 

[janb]

Of course, these cards can only be used on Northern Services.

They can be used on any smartcard operator, so basically in the north TPE and Northern. Likewise, all smartcards from other TOCs can be loaded with a relevant season ticket and used on Northern services.

 

[Puffing Devil]

They can be used on any smartcard operator, so basically in the north TPE and Northern. Likewise, all smartcards from other TOCs can be loaded with a relevant season ticket and used on Northern services.

Which prevents me using one for my season ticket as it includes a trip on Virgin and sometimes LNWR or TFL depending on my mood and route.

This is one of the problems with a broken down delivery system - there should be a national standard for this.

 

[Bantamzen]

Of course, these cards can only be used on Northern Services. And require a top-up at a physical ticket office.

I'd imagine that they would eventually be useable at TVMs, as WY MCards are now.

Which prevents me using one for my season ticket as it includes a trip on Virgin and sometimes LNWR or TFL depending on my mood and route.

This is one of the problems with a broken down delivery system - there should be a national standard for this.

This we can thank the DfT for.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Of course, these cards can only be used on Northern Services. And require a top-up at a physical ticket office.

Sorry that’s incorrect they can be used on LNER and come July the idea is any TOC card can used on any TOC service. LNER are part of the STNR scheme but aren’t issuing their own cards.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

Will any smartcard usable on any TOC from July include London Overground?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Will any smartcard usable on any TOC from July include London Overground?

My bad - I put TFL not TFW

 

[Wallsendmag]

Will any smartcard usable on any TOC from July include London Overground?

That's the plan

 

[mattdickinson]

Will any smartcard usable on any TOC from July include London Overground?

Travelcards on ITSO have been valid within zones 1-6 for some time. I believe the only smart singles and returns valid are to Cheshunt and Broxbourne. London Overground won't be issuing their own ITSO card.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I hold an annual Sheffield to Leeds "any permitted" season ticket so can use Northern, XC, LNER and TPE services and would quite like a smart card as it would save me the annoyance of having to replace my paper ticket every couple of months as it fades when put through the barriers.

But I'm a bit confused as to how guards and gate line staff can check its validity when there's nothing printed on it to say where and how long it's valid for. How exactly does that work?

 

[causton]

But I'm a bit confused as to how guards and gate line staff can check its validity when there's nothing printed on it to say where and how long it's valid for. How exactly does that work?

There are four main scenarios that happen:

1. They check on a smartphone app on their phone or ticket machine. Anyone can download the free ECEBS Smart Ticket Checker for Android if you want to do it yourself (and maybe show that to them!!!)
2. They believe that your ticket is valid and wave you through.
3. They don't believe your ticket is valid despite you having a valid one.
4. Proper railway integration means all gatelines will be set up for the ITSO cards to be used.

Sorry number 4 was a joke

 

[yorksrob]

My metro card is one of the ITSO cards, yet it also has the fact that it is a zone three metrocard printed on it. Presumably Northern could do the same with season tickets on their card, so that the guard doesn't have to faff around with the scanner ?

 

[alistairlees]

I hold an annual Sheffield to Leeds "any permitted" season ticket so can use Northern, XC, LNER and TPE services and would quite like a smart card as it would save me the annoyance of having to replace my paper ticket every couple of months as it fades when put through the barriers.

But I'm a bit confused as to how guards and gate line staff can check its validity when there's nothing printed on it to say where and how long it's valid for. How exactly does that work?

Android phone using NFC to read the data. It's pretty quick and easy. The phone can record an electronic 'clip' that is stored in a database.

 

[alistairlees]

My metro card is one of the ITSO cards, yet it also has the fact that it is a zone three metrocard printed on it. Presumably Northern could do the same with season tickets on their card, so that the guard doesn't have to faff around with the scanner ?

There's no need. And what if you changed your season ticket? Or added another ticket? Or used PAYG?

 

[robbeech]

Number 3 is the one implemented in the Manchester area at the moment it seems. As lots of staff STILL don’t know what these are a small number blanket refuse and reject.

 

[yorksrob]

There's no need. And what if you changed your season ticket? Or added another ticket? Or used PAYG?

Well, If I were to add another ticket to my metrocard (I personally prefer the orange edged card variety) I guess the guard would have to waive his reader at it, however most times he's able to just look at it and know that I'm on route.

 

[Wallsendmag]

DORIS can read ITSO cards and the LNER gatelines will read ITSO by the summer

 

[bubieyehyeh]

Travelcards on ITSO have been valid within zones 1-6 for some time. I believe the only smart singles and returns valid are to Cheshunt and Broxbourne. London Overground won't be issuing their own ITSO card.

Yes I've just had it confirmed by southern that a weekly season (not a travelcard) on "the key" cannot be used on London Overground (West London line) for part of the journey. That is a major restriction compared to a paper ticket, since the overground trains from clapham are much more frequent tham the southern ones. Southern did say they thought it would change in the spring, which I guess is July date mentioned above.

I really do think Southern should not be selling such a smart ticket on that route, which has such a significant restriction over the paper ticket of the same price.

I also raised the point with them that I felt there map for "the key" should make clearer the restriction, since I felt the current map was misleading.