Northern Ticket Machine Update Issues

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Jozhua, 14 Jul 2019.

  1. DC2001

    DC2001 Member

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    That didn't seem to work for me last time I tried - I suppose it could have been the screen not being responsive.
     
  2. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    I suggest the designer of this wonderful new interface goes and spends a few mornings at a busy commuter station with a single machine. Watch and enjoy the pain that the overworked new interface brings.
     
  3. DC2001

    DC2001 Member

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    Even off-peak the queue for the ticket machine off-peak is sometimes so long that the (late) train manages to arrive before everyone has managed to use the machine!
     
  4. Ant158

    Ant158 Member

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    https://flic.kr/p/2gUXf9G
    Was at Clitheroe station today and had a play with the machine. On the home screen it bizarrely has Stoke on Trent! as the only quick select option. No Manchester Victoria or Blackburn which every train on this route goes to. Clicked through to select a ticket for another station and the machine was really slow between each press and where you pressed wasn’t lined up to the screen so the selection box below was clicked. Used this machine not that long ago and was much quicker.
     
  5. 30907

    30907 Established Member

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    That works with Verkehrsverbund (PTE) fares but AFAIK Intercity and Regional fares still ask you to select a specific train.

    Back to the Northern machines: Keighley yesterday, the "popular" screen had all but one fields populated. To Saltaire I could have a single or CDR, to Shipley (10p more, how silly!) only the single! Apart from that, the destinations/fares were the ones I expected.
    (OT: not Windermere, there was at least one Haworth to WDM passenger yesterday!)
     
    Last edited: 11 Aug 2019
  6. py_megapixel

    py_megapixel Member

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    I spotted one of the updated machines and, remembering this thread, tried to use it.
    In order to buy the ticket, I had to click through two pages of "popular tickets" to finally get a keyboard to enter my destination.
    Why??
     
  7. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    That's the easy bit! You're only about 10% of the way through the process by that point!
     
  8. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    We don't have an issue with coffee cups at my station. However, the most popular destination is Sheffield yet the only popular option offered is for a single, despite there being space for at least 3 more popular options. Cynically I might suggest that's because there's a much poorer service out of Sheffield and most get a bus, taxi, are picked up, or even walk rather than get a train back.

    Whatever, observation shows those picking up pre-ordered tickets have no bother - but some are collecting handfuls of paper. With 4 likely TOCs to be used on journeys from the station there's resistance to using TOC specific Apps. I know, I've managed to use all 4 with success, but originally had some difficulty with connecting services. Some swear by Trainline, others are against. It will take a few more years to get many less frequent travellers to use an App.

    It's the immediate travellers that are really causing delays. They struggle to follow the complexity of all the options they're confronted with. They put their bag down, or up, to concentrate. The train arrives and they leap on. Oh dear................. IMG_20190812_120507.jpg
     
  9. northernman

    northernman Member

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    My apologies that this happened. We have an intermittent fault that we are tracking and trying to establish cause with Mcards currently. If you want to DM me about more details, happy to discuss. We are looking at what messages we can display as part of the overall enhancements based on feedback from customers, and people on this forum.
     
  10. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Glad to hear the machine is behaving, we have has some problems with that one, its being specially monitored. We are looking to make changes to the popular list to make it more helpful and relevant. Remember you don't have to select a train
     
  11. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, thanks for the feedback, I will get this changes to represent the direction the TVM serves
     
  12. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, thanks for the feedback. I will pick up the lack of display of the Anytime Day Return. We will populate the screen with more useful destinations. On point 3, its industry data so the TVM is only showing what its told to. That said, its making our fares managers consider what once was acceptable for staff to look at versus whats acceptable for customers. Deutsche....yes we picked that up early on, however whilst I agree it needs to change, Id prefer to focus the supplier on more fundamental issues, many of which have been raised on this forum. And thanks! Glad you think overall its OK, we are trying to give more choice, but I accept we need to balance against quick purchase with minimal button presses.
     
  13. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi. I am assuming the destination/fare you require is not on the first popular tickets screen? If not then its...

    Buy tickets
    Find other tickets
    Select popular destination / type in your destination
    Travel now (or whenever you are going)
    One way or return
    Select ticket
    Add to basket
    Pay
     
  14. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, even Northern employees are allowed some holiday..... :) I am still monitoring the feedback, and based on what I have read on this forum already, and talking to customers, reading customer feedback etc, we are already planning some changes with the supplier. So yes, please do keep suggesting things on here, it is being listened to
     
  15. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, sorry you found it difficult. We have not yet set up ranger tickets yet, its for a future release of software. And yes, I have used machines extensively, and some of those features are incorporated, however as many have pointed out on here, its a tricky balance to get the complexity of UK rail fares system in a user friendly way to customers, whilst theres a queue of other people stood behind you all wanting fares. I've recognised its not quite right, and I'm directly engaging with forum members, customers, staff, stakeholders. Which ranger were you after?
     
  16. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, yes this is correct, you do not have to specify a train. So if you know the fare, just press it. The concept of the trains/fares screen is to give choice. So it will show if services are running, so you can choose to buy, or not. If you want to travel on a specific train and select it, it will show what fares are valid, and if you want a specific fare it will show you what trains are valid. But, as said, if you are experienced and know what you want, select the fare.
     
  17. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    This is an absolutely classic example of the total disconnect between the ticket machine programming and the finer details of wider design. Dore & Totley has recently been nicely reconfigured with the ticket machine no longer out in the pouring rain and under the new canopy. There is a new ‘perch’ rail, clearly visible to the right of the machine, which would have made a great coffee cup and bag rest but it has a slope on it so items fall off and spill or smash. So passengers then rest bags out of eyeline on top of the machine and leave them behind whilst highly stressed at failure to be able to purchase a ticket anyway and panic at being Penalty Fared.
    Such minimal joined-up thinking.
    There is a nice space for a dog lead hook as well.
     
  18. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I'd probably say that the priorities were that the TVM should sell everything the guard can for immediate travel, so people aren't overpaying if things like Duos, GM Rangers (and bus and tram day tickets etc), Wayfarers etc are the most appropriate ticket for their journey.

    "Leisure" Rangers/Rovers rather less of a priority because they are much more of a niche product that those who use them tend to know how to obtain.

    Having tickets the machine can't sell that are intended for walk-up "mainstream" journeys makes rather a mockery of the Penalty Fares scheme.
     
  19. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, thanks for your 2 pennies worth, good feedback. You do not have to select a train. The Promise to Pay process is designed to tell us what fare you wanted so we can match that against what fares are sold. I will pick up the print format issue, it should not overwrite the date. The irony of technology not working at that station, with that name....dear me!!
     
  20. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    A long-term aspiration perhaps - the Promise to Pay could contain a scannable barcode which would immediately bring up the selected fare on the guard's ticket machine?
     
  21. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi. I haven't really got involved in the whole shelf/dog lead hook discussion, so far. However I would have concerns about any form of shelf sticking out, or hook. It raises a risk of catching someone, and a litter trap, and fair enough the flush front design of the machine doesnt really lend itself to adding anything. Id be interested if you have examples of other public facing systems that have considered that kind of thing?
     
  22. northernman

    northernman Member

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    Hi, we are considering this, but its only really going to tell the conductor from/to/ticket type/fare status, all of which are easily selected on the STARmobile ticket machine
     
  23. takno

    takno Established Member

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    I have the same problem with LNER ticket machines, where I only learned this when I was told on the forum, and I still never seem to be able to find what I'm supposed to do, to the point where I've given up trying to use their machines.

    If the thing you've got to press doesn't look enough like a button, or it looks like a header rather than the meat of the screen, people aren't going to figure it out. Given that it's probably what the vast majority of people want to do on Northern machines it should really be the most prominent buttons on the screen.
     
  24. Dr Hoo

    Dr Hoo Established Member

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    Well, I was thinking of a ‘booking office’ counter, which the ticket machine is conceptually trying to replicate. These always seem to have a level surface on which a handbag, coffee cup and stuff can be rested. I can even remember when passengers used to write cheques on them!
    I know that there were (and still are) some ‘hole in the wall’ hatches on the exterior wall of small staffed stations but most ticket windows are in some sort of ‘booking hall’ where it isn’t raining, the sun isn’t on the screen and the buggy isn’t about to roll of the platform in the howling wind and fall on the track in front the arriving train.
    Putting a machine inside an enclosed shelter, as at Chinley for example, gets round many of these problems. The dogs can’t run off either.
    Ticket machines are not new. I remember using them on the Frankfurt U-bahn in the early 1980s. But they were usually under cover, didn’t use modern screen graphics and people didn’t always carry drinks in those days.
    It seems that ticket machine designers are somehow locked in a long-gone millennium, totally drawn into the nuances of software engineering and completely ignorant of the fact that their products are now being used in a wider range of environments than the first generation.
     
    Last edited: 13 Aug 2019
  25. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    Can you advise how I avoid selecting a train when I pick an 'Other' destination? I couldn't figure a fast-track way when I used the machine this morning.
     
  26. xotGD

    xotGD Established Member

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    Oh, another thing. After I have said that I want a return, travelling now, coming back today, I then get asked if I want a return or the more expensive option of two singles. Why?

    I know that if I was returning tomorrow I would need two singles (since annoyingly only day returns are available for local journeys in West Yorks), but I've already pressed the button to say I'm returning today, so it is clear I want the day return ticket.
     
  27. Tim33160

    Tim33160 Member

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    Cuddington TVM has been altered to offer season tickets, provided you can enter your photocard id. Most of the "popular" tickets have disappeared and the promise to pay button has been greyed out. If you press it you get "Sorry, Promise to Pay is currently unavailable". It also offers smartcard, which I assume means it offers the facility for topping one up, but can you buy one at any booking offices yet?
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Does Cuddington have a booking office? I think it'd be disabled if that was open, as you can pay cash there?
     
  29. jawr256

    jawr256 Member

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    That Stoke on Trent fare is bizarre - there's no off peak day return there from Clitheroe, and £12.20 is the fare from Adlington (Cheshire) to Stoke - much cheaper than fares from Clitheroe.
     
  30. jtuk

    jtuk Member

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    I was just searching, I would have been looking for a Wayfarer. Although I did use one yesterday at Cheadle Hulme, I would have assumed the popular stations would be Manchester, Stockport, then some combination of Macc/Wilmslow, and it just offered up Handforth and Wilmslow.

    Although, when I did finally find where Poynton was, I was pleased that it did ask the question whether I wanted a receipt, cutting the amount of card stock it goes through by two thirds
     

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