Northern Unit Refurbishments

[brel york]

102 is due at Doncaster on the 18 dec for prm mods & corrosion

Then 150 125 but not till March next year

 

[deltic08]

I believe 124 is also with Northern, but it's gone to Crewe, presumably for mods & repaint?

Does anyone know if there's any chance of the any of the ex-GWR 150's being pressed into service in current condition, or is the plan for them all to be 'Northernised' before service entry?

I was at a meeting in York last week where TfN expressed disappointment with the quality of Northern's refurb. A halt has been called for reassessment.

 

[brel york]

I was at a meeting in York last week where TfN expressed disappointment with the quality of Northern's refurb. A halt has been called for reassessment.

You get what you pay for in life

 

[northwichcat]

I was at a meeting in York last week where TfN expressed disappointment with the quality of Northern's refurb. A halt has been called for reassessment.

I thought they had already been reassessed with it being decided the 156s and 158s would get new seats and the 150s with Ashbourne seating would get upcycled Chapman seats? Although, there is still the question of how they would get enough Chapman seats to upcycle and the question about whether anything extra would be done to the 155s, 319s and 333s. There's also the question about whether a decent CIS could be fitted rather than just the cheapest one as a box ticking exercise.

 

[387star]

Sorry but this is laughable

Disappointed from the off right

South west trains class 455/456 look . no . further

 

[brel york]

I thought they had already been reassessed with it being decided the 156s and 158s would get new seats and the 150s with Ashbourne seating would get upcycled Chapman seats? Although, there is still the question of how they would get enough Chapman seats to upcycle and the question about whether anything extra would be done to the 155s, 319s and 333s. There's also the question about whether a decent CIS could be fitted rather than just the cheapest one as a box ticking exercise.

Chapmans won’t just drop straight in and angel have already paid for new flooring so I can’t see them paying to Re- Lino them as the floor t bolts will need moving

 

[northwichcat]

Sorry but this is laughable

Disappointed from the off right

South west trains class 455/456 look . no . further

Northern are required to have at least 124 seats on 2 car 150s and 198 seats on 3 car hybrid sets. That wouldn't be possible with 2+2 seating throughout.

 

[brel york]

Northern are required to have at least 124 seats on 2 car 150s and 198 seats on 3 car hybrid sets. That wouldn't be possible with 2+2 seating throughout.

And you can’t make a two seater into a three without a 3 seater frame and bigger pedestal

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I believe 124 is also with Northern, but it's gone to Crewe, presumably for mods & repaint?

Does anyone know if there's any chance of the any of the ex-GWR 150's being pressed into service in current condition, or is the plan for them all to be 'Northernised' before service entry?

I'm hoping that some will be in service whilst retaining the GWR livery in the short term.

 

[brel york]

I'm hoping that some will be in service whilst retaining the GWR livery in the short term.

102 is going to wabtec on 18 dec it’s getting exterior done there

 

[47802]

I was at a meeting in York last week where TfN expressed disappointment with the quality of Northern's refurb. A halt has been called for reassessment.

Having been on the 158 which is closest to having the full refurb, I thought it was fine but the original seats in my view look dated and offer poor legroom plus some Northern 158's with the original seats don't have drop down tables either, so If you change the seats they will look good enough in my view, although we will no doubt end up with a debate about the relative comfort of the new seats.

The 150 with the Chapman seats looks much better, the refurb 156 I was on with original seat covers was OK new seats will probably improve it, the Colour Display they have put in the 158's looked much better than the older style Dot Matrix units they have put in the 156 and 150's, internal Power doors would be a real improvement on the 156's but I doubt that will happen.

Overall I don't think the refurb's are that bad but the piecemeal way they are being done hasn't helped.

 

[deltic08]

Having been on the 158 which is closest to having the full refurb, I thought it was fine but the original seats in my view look dated and offer poor legroom plus some Northern 158's with the original seats don't have drop down tables either, so If you change the seats they will look good enough in my view, although we will no doubt end up with a debate about the relative comfort of the new seats.

The 150 with the Chapman seats looks much better, the refurb 156 I was on with original seat covers was OK new seats will probably improve it, the Colour Display they have put in the 158's looked much better than the older style Dot Matrix units they have put in the 156 and 150's, internal Power doors would be a real improvement on the 156's but I doubt that will happen.

Overall I don't think the refurb's are that bad but the piecemeal way they are being done hasn't helped.

Can I add that TfN was impressed by TPE class 185 refurb and would like Northern to be the same quality.

 

[Domh245]

Can I add that TfN was impressed by TPE class 185 refurb and would like Northern to be the same quality.

But then again the TPE 185s are trying to create a more intercity feel, and so obviously would be higher quality than the more commuter/suburban Northern refurbs.

 

[northwichcat]

But then again the TPE 185s are trying to create a more intercity feel, and so obviously would be higher quality than the more commuter/suburban Northern refurbs.

TPE will end up like XC. Liverpool/Manchester Airport to York and beyond, plus Manchester Airport/Liverpool to Scotland via Preston will be Intercity routes with Intercity trains. The other North TPE services will be regional stopping services. However, South TPE is also keeping 185s so presumably TPE don't want South TPE passengers to feel hard done by so are fitting some of the Intercity provisions on the 185s - like charging points and wifi with media streaming.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

But then again the TPE 185s are trying to create a more intercity feel, and so obviously would be higher quality than the more commuter/suburban Northern refurbs.

In terms of the basic appearance and finish, the 185 refurbishment sets quite a benchmark in the north. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the 195s are as good as a 185 minus first class, but it really should be achievable. Likewise the 170s when they arrive should follow the example of the 185s, albeit with a more overtly commuter/suburban focus:- perhaps with half-tables in bays rather than full ones, for example.

In terms of quality, again the 185 refurbishment sets a standard to be aimed for. When the 185s first arrived, many criticised due to the so-called commuter-style door arrangement. On that basis, whilst a 150 will never come close (window placement and door-pockets being a particular issue), things like the materials, lighting and fittings used in the 185s could possibly polish up a 150 into a half-decent unit on suburban services. From the photos, those new seat cushions on one of the 150s seem to at least be vaguely leaning in that direction.

 

[47802]

In terms of the basic appearance and finish, the 185 refurbishment sets quite a benchmark in the north. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the 195s are as good as a 185 minus first class, but it really should be achievable. Likewise the 170s when they arrive should follow the example of the 185s, albeit with a more overtly commuter/suburban focus:- perhaps with half-tables in bays rather than full ones, for example.

In terms of quality, again the 185 refurbishment sets a standard to be aimed for. When the 185s first arrived, many criticised due to the so-called commuter-style door arrangement. On that basis, whilst a 150 will never come close (window placement and door-pockets being a particular issue), things like the materials, lighting and fittings used in the 185s could possibly polish up a 150 into a half-decent unit on suburban services. From the photos, those new seat cushions on one of the 150s seem to at least be vaguely leaning in that direction.

Well yes but you have to be realistic in terms of cost and the age of the train, 150's are 30 years old, 185's are 10 years old and an in-refurbished 185 is currently far superior to any diesel that Northern have.

 

[darloscott]

Something similar to what GWR have done with their 150/2's would be perfectly acceptable in my opinion. I know they're not 3+2 but still, a similar standard of refurbishment would be fine.

 

[D2007wsm]

In terms of the basic appearance and finish, the 185 refurbishment sets quite a benchmark in the north. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the 195s are as good as a 185 minus first class, but it really should be achievable. Likewise the 170s when they arrive should follow the example of the 185s, albeit with a more overtly commuter/suburban focus:- perhaps with half-tables in bays rather than full ones, for example.

In terms of quality, again the 185 refurbishment sets a standard to be aimed for. When the 185s first arrived, many criticised due to the so-called commuter-style door arrangement. On that basis, whilst a 150 will never come close (window placement and door-pockets being a particular issue), things like the materials, lighting and fittings used in the 185s could possibly polish up a 150 into a half-decent unit on suburban services. From the photos, those new seat cushions on one of the 150s seem to at least be vaguely leaning in that direction.

Just follow the example of GWR with their 150/2 refurbishment and that of the 158s. When one of these turns up it is a pleasent experience to travel on, maybe except the single seats opposite the new toilet which could be better spaced. The 150/0s have been done to the same standard, allthough retaining their original 3x2 seating. These are a far cry from when a 150/1 turns up which are cramped and uncomfortable and I won't be sorry to see these go as more Turbos are cascaded to the area. Even the GWR 143s are pleasent enough to travel on minus the bouncing.

I know First have their faults, but they do know how to do a decent refurbishment, both the GWR and the FGW one before that. For such high use, the HSTs and DMUs have held up remarkably well. I think Northern should look to GWR and TPX for inspiration when tacking their stock. Even look to ATW, which I hear have done a good job with their 158 refurbs and that is another Arriva franchise, so why such a disparity in quality?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the end a 150 is just a bodyshell. You could make a half decent (if noisy and non-aircon) long distance unit if you fitted Grammers in bays with tables - OK, you can't avoid there being seats against blank walls, but then Class 800s have those too. The ATW ones really aren't bad per-se, they just need to remove a few rows so anyone who isn't a midget fits in an airline seat.

I think the quality of the Northern job is high enough, but the layout is a bit old fashioned and basic. It's worth considering the two aspects separately in my view - a shoddy job with decent seating (e.g. the GatEx Wessies) is in many ways as bad as a good job with lousy seating.

The TPE one is interesting. The quality is clearly extremely high, but the ambiance appears to be very old fashioned due to the colour choice - they still remind me of old Eastern European compartment coaches. If the first class seats had been done in a dark grey or black leather (as the beige/off white is going to get very mucky very quickly), and the Standard ones in a deeper blue, I would really like it.

IMO, the darker scheme originally proposed:

is much nicer.

 

[Halish Railway]

I wonder what ironing board seats would look like with the new moquette as seen on 150 142. Originally they would have just been plane blue as seen at the new seats roadshow.

 

[swissrailpassion]

From what I have seen of the refurbishments so far the quality of work is poor, presumably rushed. Ill fitting window seals, incorrectly fitted seat covers, shoddy panel work, rucked flooring and fluff everywhere; quality control is poor. I think Northern should look elsewhere for their contractor.

 

[mikemcniven]

From what I have seen of the refurbishments so far the quality of work is poor, presumably rushed. Ill fitting window seals, incorrectly fitted seat covers, shoddy panel work, rucked flooring and fluff everywhere; quality control is poor. I think Northern should look elsewhere for their contractor.

If it's the ones done at LNWR at Crewe, then it is Arriva who has done it!

 

[northwichcat]

If it's the ones done at LNWR at Crewe, then it is Arriva who has done it!

Have Arriva Train Care changed the seat covers on any trains? I thought they'd only done repaints including some minor PRM compliance alterations.

I've noticed recently the 150s with Ashbourne seating and old Northern seat covers are all falling off, but the 150s with Chapman seats and old Northern seat covers are mainly still intact. Maybe with some seat types it's easier to replace the covers than with others?

 

[brel york]

They are all easy to change , it’s the foam / springs that are collapsing, it’s all about money

 

[northwichcat]

According to a post on wnxx 150207 is going to go to GWR in exchange for the two mismatched 150/2 carriages. Has anyone else heard it will be that particular unit? I think 150207 is an ex-FNW 150 so I'm surprised that they are letting one of those go in exchange for two carriages with Asbourne seating.

 

[brel york]

According to a post on wnxx 150207 is going to go to GWR in exchange for the two mismatched 150/2 carriages. Has anyone else heard it will be that particular unit? I think 150207 is an ex-FNW 150 so I'm surprised that they are letting one of those go in exchange for two carriages with Asbourne seating.

I only say this because we were down to put a toilet in a 57 car with the added engineering costs and now angel are saying they will send 207 instead , it won’t matter about the Ashbourne seats as it will be going in a 150/1 that may already have Ashbourne seats

 

[PHILIPE]

Something similar to what GWR have done with their 150/2's would be perfectly acceptable in my opinion. I know they're not 3+2 but still, a similar standard of refurbishment would be fine.

The DFT seem to be obsessed with 3+2 and turn down requests to convert to 2+2. DFT count the the seats and are then able to brag that xxx more seats are being provided

 

[northwichcat]

I only say this because we were down to put a toilet in a 57 car with the added engineering costs and now angel are saying they will send 207 instead , it won’t matter about the Ashbourne seats as it will be going in a 150/1 that may already have Ashbourne seats

It will mean one less 150 with modern seats in the North.

 

[railfan100]

The DFT seem to be obsessed with 3+2 and turn down requests to convert to 2+2. DFT count the the seats and are then able to brag that xxx more seats are being provided

It is only the North the people serving paper pushing bureaucrats in the South feel people should be crammed in as needed. It is also fine for them to be riding around in life expired rolling stock. The design aim by BREL for the Class 150 units was 30 years, perhaps no one noticed at the DFT that these units are end of life.

 

[Kite159]

I bumped into the 150/2 with the new blue seat covers at Salford earlier, from the outside at least it looks reasonably smart.

Probably will hide staines better than the refurbished 185 I caught afterwards where it looked like someone had an accident with a drink on the seat previously