Northern Unit Refurbishments

[978wta]

The 153 would still require modifications. It isn't just about the toilet.

Would have thought it’d be the same mods as the 155.

 

[507021]

Fit the 323's with the ironing boards on steroids in 2X2 social layout like the FNW 150's and they'd be almost perfect.

Apart from having less seats than a 319, of course.

Out of interest, does anyone how many seats there are on a PRM compliant 323?

 

[TEW]

Would have thought it’d be the same mods as the 155.

I would have thought it would be pretty much, but it isn't just a case of plonking a 153 in the middle of a modified 155 as some seem to suggest.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Apart from having less seats than a 319, of course.

Out of interest, does anyone how many seats there are on a PRM compliant 323?

Using an educated guess, take off about 10 seats.

 

[Flyingsprinter]

I hope they don’t scrap the 153’s and put them into storage instead. With a lack of dmu’s I’ve got a feeling by 2023ish they’ll be back in service if they store them as more capacity will be needed. Scrap them and they’ll have to build new trains, which they won’t do, so will just lead to even more chronic overcrowding.

 

[Rail Blues]

Northern are set to get rid of the following stock by the end of 2019:

142
144
153
37 + MK2s
185
323


In the case of the first four they want to get rid of it. In the case of the last two they'd rather keep it but have been forced to give it up.
Incidentally 142 153 and 37 are very unpopular with drivers. All the Barrow Drivers really hate 37s and none of them are enthusiasts. Whenever I'm up there it's the same old story I'm sick of hearing them moaning about them saying the same old crap and I wish my depot signed them. I'm sure they've just taught themselves to hate the locos.
185s are the most popular by far by the ex TPE drivers who say they're better than the other stock by a very long way.

I think you're being totally unfair on the Barrow drivers. As you say they aren't enthusiasts and there's no requirement for them to be so. They've been presented with what is an aged, noisy and unreliable loco from the middle of the last century, that isn't fit for purpose and asked to run a service using it.

It would be like giving someone a 40year old Morris Marina as a company car and acting bemused that they aren't charmed by the rust, drafts, snail like acceleration, lack of creature comforts and chronic unreliability. If you are an old car nut, you'll put up with that, but if like me you're not it just turns into a daily headache and something that hampers your ability to do your job.

 

[507021]

Using an educated guess, take off about 10 seats.

If that's correct, that's less than a PRM compliant 319.

I hope they don’t scrap the 153’s and put them into storage instead. With a lack of dmu’s I’ve got a feeling by 2023ish they’ll be back in service if they store them as more capacity will be needed. Scrap them and they’ll have to build new trains, which they won’t do, so will just lead to even more chronic overcrowding.

They aren't PRM compliant, and making them compliant would make their capacity too low to be of any use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 153 would still require modifications. It isn't just about the toilet.

The ex-LM ones have PIS, if that's what you mean. FWIW I took one from Bedford to Bletchley last night and it occurred to me just how nice they are compared with Northern's despite the same Chapman seating. A nicer colour scheme (none of that stark blue), nice subdued lighting (cool white LEDs - just to prove that colour can be done well - similar to the Irish DMUs), brand new wood-effect tables etc. Still no legroom, to be fair, but put together with a chatty guard who was clearly proud of her little bit of the railway it gave a very good impression indeed.

And two people got off at Kempston Hardwick!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you're being totally unfair on the Barrow drivers. As you say they aren't enthusiasts and there's no requirement for them to be so. They've been presented with what is an aged, noisy and unreliable loco from the middle of the last century, that isn't fit for purpose and asked to run a service using it.

It would be like giving someone a 40year old Morris Marina as a company car and acting bemused that they aren't charmed by the rust, drafts, snail like acceleration, lack of creature comforts and chronic unreliability. If you are an old car nut, you'll put up with that, but if like me you're not it just turns into a daily headache and something that hampers your ability to do your job.

I must admit I really don't understand why LH has been used in the way it has there. It's obviously completely unsuitable for a local stopping service. It looks like 1990s DB, or it would if you'd just paint the coaches silver.

A sensible use of LH would be to make more use of it in North Wales for the long-distance stuff, for instance, then cascade DMUs elsewhere.

 

[Rail Blues]

They aren't PRM compliant, and making them compliant would make their capacity too low to be of any use.

Agreed. This desire to hoard outdated and post 2020 unusable rolling stock really rips my knitting. The ''never scrap anything ever" brigade don't appreciate the considerable costs of keeping this stuff in warm store.

 

[MG11]

Agreed. This desire to hoard outdated and post 2020 unusable rolling stock really rips my knitting. The ''never scrap anything ever" brigade don't appreciate the considerable costs of keeping this stuff in warm store.

What is the structural condition of the 153s? I know they've have a slight sag towards the centre of the body, would that be taken in to consideration when assessing their future?

 

[507021]

Agreed. This desire to hoard outdated and post 2020 unusable rolling stock really rips my knitting. The ''never scrap anything ever" brigade don't appreciate the considerable costs of keeping this stuff in warm store.

I don't understand it either, to be honest. The way I see it is unless the 153s are converted back to 155s (which I can't see happening, personally), then I don't see how they have a future after December 31st 2019.

 

[jayiscupid]

I assume they could, if the operators and owners wanted to. Given the total number of Leyland super-sprinter vehicles (84), I always felt that making the whole lot into 3-car units would've been a good use of them. One problem with that is the splitting of the 153s between two different ROSCOs.

I'm surprised the whole fleet isn't being converted into 3 car units. There's talk of making 455's, 323's and 159's into bimodes yet here we have a fleet of DMUs that aren't being used after 2019. I can only assume the 153s are in really dire shape if conversion back to 155's isn't being considered as an option.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm surprised the whole fleet isn't being converted into 3 car units. There's talk of making 455's, 323's and 159's into bimodes yet here we have a fleet of DMUs that aren't being used after 2019. I can only assume the 153s are in really dire shape if conversion back to 155's isn't being considered as an option.

Considering how long it took 155346 to be refurbished, they're probably not in great shape. I imagine Northern are maybe regretting locking themselves into continued use of the West Yorkshire 7, especially considering how ropey 345 sounded earlier.

What is the structural condition of the 153s? I know they've have a slight sag towards the centre of the body, would that be taken in to consideration when assessing their future?

This body sag business... I'm still not convinced and I've only ever heard it mentioned on here. I can't see it myself, and I think it's an optical illusion caused by a long bodyshell with lots of small windows. There are many problems with the units but I'm not sure this is one of them.

It seems like one of those things that's been mentioned just often enough that enough people have decided it's a fact. If the bodyshells were drooping there's no way the 155s would still be part of Northern's plans. Especially now they HAVE had two of them taken to pieces and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm not sure they should be staying, but I'm sure that if they were sagging then Arriva would indeed have found a way to get out of their commitment to the 7.

 

[themiller]

Considering how long it took 155346 to be refurbished, they're probably not in great shape. I imagine Northern are maybe regretting locking themselves into continued use of the West Yorkshire 7, especially considering how ropey 345 sounded earlier.



This body sag business... I'm still not convinced and I've only ever heard it mentioned on here. I can't see it myself, and I think it's an optical illusion caused by a long bodyshell with lots of small windows. There are many problems with the units but I'm not sure this is one of them.

It seems like one of those things that's been mentioned just often enough that enough people have decided it's a fact. If the bodyshells were drooping there's no way the 155s would still be part of Northern's plans. Especially now they HAVE had two of them taken to pieces and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm not sure they should be staying, but I'm sure that if they were sagging then Arriva would indeed have found a way to get out of their commitment to the 7.

I have seen the sag on some of the 153s but others are as straight as a die.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have seen the sag on some of the 153s but others are as straight as a die.

If they are indeed sagging (I'm still sceptical) then once 2020 comes they should be fitted with sanding or weedkilling equipment and painted Network Rail yellow...

A whole new twist on the "flying banana"

 

[Bringback309s]

Watching "Anglia News" last night, there was a feature about rail overcrowding that featured lots of footage from the North! In it this interior shot - is that a 150 or 319 with the latest Northern trim?

 

[507021]

Watching "Anglia News" last night, there was a feature about rail overcrowding that featured lots of footage from the North! In it this interior shot - is that a 150 or 319 with the latest Northern trim?

That's a 150.

 

[Halish Railway]

That's a 150.

150 142 to be precise.

 

[M1544]

Looks like refurbished 150274 may be coming back from Kilmarnock today -

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K96368/2018/02/10/advanced

 

[coxxy]

Looks like refurbished 150274 may be coming back from Kilmarnock today -

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K96368/2018/02/10/advanced

When did it go up there? Seems like they are starting to get considerably quicker with these 150 refurbs.

 

[M1544]

Went up last year, best part of 6 months ago! 275 was first, 276 second and then 274 went. 270 went up last week.

 

[coxxy]

Ahh must have got it confused with 270 then..

 

[Flyingsprinter]

If you were to convert 153’s back to 155’s then you’d only have to put 1 prm toilet in. Or could a 153 be added to a already prm 155 to make a 3 carriage 155? Then you wouldn’t need a prm toilet installed as the rest of the unit would have the toilet. All that would have to be done is the other prm mods? Surley this is something that should be considered? It’s not like anyone’s going to get any new dmus (apart form the new northern 195s) anytime soon.

 

[boeing737229]

Considering how long it took 155346 to be refurbished, they're probably not in great shape. I imagine Northern are maybe regretting locking themselves into continued use of the West Yorkshire 7, especially considering how ropey 345 sounded earlier.



This body sag business... I'm still not convinced and I've only ever heard it mentioned on here. I can't see it myself, and I think it's an optical illusion caused by a long bodyshell with lots of small windows. There are many problems with the units but I'm not sure this is one of them.

It seems like one of those things that's been mentioned just often enough that enough people have decided it's a fact. If the bodyshells were drooping there's no way the 155s would still be part of Northern's plans. Especially now they HAVE had two of them taken to pieces and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm not sure they should be staying, but I'm sure that if they were sagging then Arriva would indeed have found a way to get out of their commitment to the 7.

345 sounded absolutely DREADFUL when I went on it last week! Stood at the very middle of the unit and the slinky part that connects the 2 carriages was creaking like MAD as we were arriving into Hudds!

 

[pdq]

One of the 155s was very near to dying last Thursday. (8.11 from Batley to Huddersfield if anyone is interested to find out which one). It was 20 late leaving Leeds 'due to a fault with this train'. The front engine shuddered to a stop at Batley and failed to restart, it then restarted at Dewsbury and cut out in Ravensthorpe, then stalled again on taking power at Midfield and Deighton. I assume it made it back to Leeds in one piece, but surely will have been taken out of service after that.
To be fair, that's the first Northern train I've been on for some years that felt as sick.
Then, that evening, had the refurbished 155 - with new everything. It's the first Northern refurb I've been on that felt worthy of that title.

 

[387star]

There a list of which units carry the first version of the new Northern livery with different coloured 'N' logos?

 

[507021]

There a list of which units carry the first version of the new Northern livery with different coloured 'N' logos?

Yes, here. It's up to date as of January 29th, I'll update it again in a week or two.

 

[LowLevel]

If they are indeed sagging (I'm still sceptical) then once 2020 comes they should be fitted with sanding or weedkilling equipment and painted Network Rail yellow...

A whole new twist on the "flying banana"

Some are bent. On some of ours you can get your hand through the gap between the top of the door and and the frame.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Some are bent. On some of ours you can get your hand through the gap between the top of the door and and the frame.

They're badly built, that's clear... but could what you describe be individual panels slipping (or simply the doors being a bit crap, they were from the start!) rather than the entire bodyshell sagging. After all, the doors are at the ends so you'd think anything affecting the whole bodyshell would be less apparent there.