Norwich to Basingstoke service

[camperdown9]

Years ago my partners Grandmother came to visit his parents in Chelmsford from Devon without changing in London. Then this morning someone commented on a Facebook post that there was a short lived service between Norwich and Basingtoke that went via north London.

Does anyone have any information on this service? A scan of a timetable would be great, but if not then just dates, times and stops would be great.

Second question..possibly not related. From 1996-1998 I used the service from Upper Holloway to Barking. I remember for some reason it not running and together with a group of other people we got a bus to possibly highbury and islington station and then took a train to Stratford. The friend that was acting as tour guide for this involuntary re-route suggested that we wait on a specific train as it was coming from somewhere outside London and had nicer seats. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I mean what service this might of been?

Many thanks

Alex

 

[Bald Rick]

There have been a few threads on this relatively short lived service. Operated by Anglia.

The train you were guided towards in your second para would have been the same service as in your first para.

 

[camperdown9]

There have been a few threads on this relatively short lived service. Operated by Anglia.

The train you were guided towards in your second para would have been the same service as in your first para.

Thanks I tried to do a search but not sure what to search for. When I searched for Basingstoke to Norwich there were a few results but they seemed to be about more recent travel via London.

 

[jfollows]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Crosslink

London Crosslink was a passenger train service operated by Anglia Railwaysbetween Norwich and Basingstoke, using the North London Line to bypass central London. Class 170 Turbostar diesel multiple units were used, and the service operated between 22 May 2000 and 28 September 2002, supported by funding from the Strategic Rail Authority through its Rail Passenger Partnership fund.

May 2000 working timetables at https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_8f74a58e-0723-4ecf-b9d7-04498a5e31c6/
Just one example (1O32 04:40 Ipswich-Basingstoke with its 05:37 Romford call) extracted:

 

[hexagon789]

Years ago my partners Grandmother came to visit his parents in Chelmsford from Devon without changing in London. Then this morning someone commented on a Facebook post that there was a short lived service between Norwich and Basingtoke that went via north London.

Does anyone have any information on this service? A scan of a timetable would be great, but if not then just dates, times and stops would be great.

Second question..possibly not related. From 1996-1998 I used the service from Upper Holloway to Barking. I remember for some reason it not running and together with a group of other people we got a bus to possibly highbury and islington station and then took a train to Stratford. The friend that was acting as tour guide for this involuntary re-route suggested that we wait on a specific train as it was coming from somewhere outside London and had nicer seats. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I mean what service this might of been?

Many thanks

Alex

That would be London Crosslink, one of a number of short-lived services around privatisation.

It used Anglia's then brand-new 170 Turbostars, complete with buffet facility.

Only one service ran from Norwich and it returned only as far as Ipswich as I recall.

The timetable was a bit messy as pathing constraints meant many wiring weren't balanced, but there was a vaguely two-hourly Strarford-Basingstoke and return with certain services starting/finishing at Witham, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich or Norwich.

The intermediate calling pattern was similarly messy, some stations were only served at the weekend, or only Mon-Fri or only in the peaks.

The services ran between May 2000 and September 2002, being withdrawn to free up more paths for freight over the North London Line.

I've previously posted extracts of the timings on this forum, you can get an idea of the service pattern here:

London Crosslink

Problem was also it was slow going around London

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[camperdown9]

Thanks everyone this is great

 

[hexagon789]

This is the Winter 2000-01 London Crosslink timetable:

 

[306024]

I was once told by an Anglia Railways manager one of the bigger successes of this service was as a revenue raid on South West Trains between Woking and Basingstoke. Certainly one of AR’s more wacky ideas, unlike the 2 car 170s obtained for Norwich - Cambridge which was an excellent move.

It was viewed as an irritant to good operations on the GEML, with paths squeezed in for just a 3 car DMU. It somehow had the knack of just getting in the way, it’s loss wasn't mourned by many.

 

[PedroHav]

It's a shame there aren't any long distance services that go east west which avoid the change in London. Many cities in the world have started running trains through the middle or round a city which is really useful and doesn't take up terminus space.

 

[jamesr]

One of it’s bigger challenges is that it was fairly poorly publicised, particularly outside of East Anglia. I recall trying to book a cycle reservation at one of the northern Thameslink stations in Winter 2001 (Radlett, from memory), and the ticket office chap being so adamant there were no through services from West Hampstead to East Anglia that he wasn’t even going to spend the time looking it up, and I needed to travel through Central London. Luckily, I had a pocket timetable in my pocket, at which the guy expressed considerable surprise and booked me accordingly.

Caught it a few times, including all the way round to Basingstoke to connect to the West Country. A nice novelty, but painfully slow around north London.

 

[Snow1964]

I remember on one occasion there was a line blockage somewhere in Staines to Virginia Water area, and one already on the North London line somehow got diverted to Richmond, think it was stuck in one of the bay platforms for a day or two as class 170s weren’t officially authorised between Acton and Richmond.

The service ran via Brentford, Hounslow and the Byfleet spur

 

[delt1c]

Used it a few times to cross London , problem it was very slow so didn’t save time crossing London by tube , but was a lot more comfortable and you could enjoy a coffee

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’d far rather get from SWR territory to Stratford (as I often have to) using a 170 with buffet than via Waterloo and Jubilee line as now!

 

[hexagon789]

I’d far rather get from SWR territory to Stratford (as I often have to) using a 170 with buffet than via Waterloo and Jubilee line as now!

And a whole coach of 1st Class, with the same seats the original batch SWT 159s had/have from memory.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And a whole coach of 1st Class, with the same seats the original batch SWT 159s had/have from memory.

170201-208 still have those seats at one end, absolutely not a whole coach though, just the same section used by First Class on XC/SR/SN.

 

[randyrippley]

Were there any gaps preventing a dual voltage EMU from doing the whole route? By then Norwich was electrified, NLL had been converted 4>3 rail

 

[JonathanH]

Were there any gaps preventing a dual voltage EMU from doing the whole route?

Yes. There still are. The curve at South Acton is not electrified.

51°29'25.6"N 0°17'30.4"W · Kew Bridge Distribution Centre, Unit 1 Lionel Rd S, Brentford TW8 9QR

Kew Bridge Distribution Centre, Unit 1 Lionel Rd S, Brentford TW8 9QR

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[hexagon789]

170201-208 still have those seats at one end, absolutely not a whole coach though, just the same section used by First Class on XC/SR/SN.

Originally it was a full coach -

One driving car had 29 First Class seats, plus the wheelchair spaces and toilet.

The centre car had 58 Std Class, the buffet and conductor's office, plus a toilet.

The other driving car had 66 Std Class seats and a further toilet.

They were ordered for the dual purpose of enabling through services from Sheringham, Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft (the latter including via Beccles), and doubling the London-Norwich frequency to half-hourly.

Hence the large amount of First Class for only a 3-car unit and the buffet counter.

 

[Sprinter107]

They also used 170399, a 2 car unit in Porterbrook livery, branded for London Crosslink.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I used it a few times travelling directly from Staines to Colchester. It was quite good, but rather slow around North London. I travelled in their 3 car DMUS.

They seemed quite well patronised.

 

[WestAnglian]

I ejoyed the fact that I could buy an Adnams ion the NLL.

At one time a 170 came down into Liverpool St. during the morning peak (from Great Yarmouth?) then formed a Crosslink service. I think it was ECS to Highbury and Islington. I see it isn't in @hexagon789 's timetable posted above so must have been even more short-lived than the rest of the service.

 

[Gloster]

It used to be in the timetable book that South West Trains published. My recollection is that one thing that struck me was the variety of starting and terminating points at the eastern end. I may still have a complete run of the books covering the period that it operated in the garage, so I will dig them out. (Never throw anything away: it will come in useful one day.)

 

[camperdown9]

It used to be in the timetable book that South West Trains published. My recollection is that one thing that struck me was the variety of starting and terminating points at the eastern end. I may still have a complete run of the books covering the period that it operated in the garage, so I will dig them out. (Never throw anything away: it will come in useful one day.)

I know that feeling. Years ago I had a collection of timetables but of course I left home and mothers do what mothers do..they all went in a skip. Spent a lot of time and some money trying to rebuild my collection.

 

[hexagon789]

It used to be in the timetable book that South West Trains published. My recollection is that one thing that struck me was the variety of starting and terminating points at the eastern end. I may still have a complete run of the books covering the period that it operated in the garage, so I will dig them out. (Never throw anything away: it will come in useful one day.)

Yes, it was quite inconsistent particularly Mon-Fri.

I ejoyed the fact that I could buy an Adnams ion the NLL.

At one time a 170 came down into Liverpool St. during the morning peak (from Great Yarmouth?) then formed a Crosslink service. I think it was ECS to Highbury and Islington. I see it isn't in @hexagon789 's timetable posted above so must have been even more short-lived than the rest of the service.

I think the H& starters had mostly been amended by 2001 to start further back but likely such a working existed for a period.

In a similar vein, the number of through services from Sheringham/Gt Yarmouth/Lowestoft was reduced around the same time.

Possibly a case of finding out demand was not as anticipated.

 

[jfollows]

I ejoyed the fact that I could buy an Adnams ion the NLL.

At one time a 170 came down into Liverpool St. during the morning peak (from Great Yarmouth?) then formed a Crosslink service. I think it was ECS to Highbury and Islington. I see it isn't in @hexagon789 's timetable posted above so must have been even more short-lived than the rest of the service.

1W05 05:50 Bury St. Edmunds to Liverpool Street arrived 07v36 platform 10, formed 5O34 07:45 ECS to Highbury & Islington in the May 2000 timetable, for example. Formed 1O34 08:18 Highbury & Islington to Basingstoke. Attached the WTT of the ECS working out of Liverpool Street (https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_8f74a58e-0723-4ecf-b9d7-04498a5e31c6/ , timetables LA for the inbound working and LB for the extracts shown) and its onward working to Basingstoke.


EDIT By the next timetable, September 2000, 1O34 started from Stratford at 08:04 (per the public timetable posted above). 5O34 still ran, 07:47 from Liverpool Street (platform 6) to Stratford (platform 11) and was still formed from 1W05 inbound.

 

[fgwrich]

And a whole coach of 1st Class, with the same seats the original batch SWT 159s had/have from memory.

Funny that you mention those seats, as, that is where the seats in the 159/1s actually came from having been freed up by Anglia. The seats in the 159/0 (refurbished later, both Primarius) are a touch different.

 

[superalbs]

Funny that you mention those seats, as, that is where the seats in the 159/1s actually came from having been freed up by Anglia. The seats in the 159/0 (refurbished later, both Primarius) are a touch different.

Now since standardised to the later 159/0 variant, except 159103.

 

[hexagon789]

Funny that you mention those seats, as, that is where the seats in the 159/1s actually came from having been freed up by Anglia. The seats in the 159/0 (refurbished later, both Primarius) are a touch different.

Ah, so I had the batches wrong but the seats right. Something at least!

 

[stuu]

Didn't they initially plan on running some other services as well, to Reading perhaps or maybe Watford/MK? Or was that some other daft proposal?

 

[fgwrich]

Now since standardised to the later 159/0 variant, except 159103.

Oh, I wonder why they did that? Presumably it’s just the headrest part that was swapped?