ChristopherJ
Member
Better than this, I suppose.
hock:Hilariously, the caption on the site I linked this image from is "Units cannot come much more dreary and dull than this class 315 in grey..."
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Not so Greater Anglia
- Thread starter djdave
- Start date
- Status
Better than this, I suppose.
hock:Hilariously, the caption on the site I linked this image from is "Units cannot come much more dreary and dull than this class 315 in grey..."
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
here here! couldn't agree more!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I had a nice hour long sauna session on a GA 321 tonight due to the signal issues at Ilford. I hate to use them as an excuse, but GA are driving me to drink as I had to have a pint when I got off the train just to cool down and chill out.
it is pretty damn shocking service at the moment! Dave Ward and Ruud need to pull their fingers out!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
one thing that has improved is the speed that delay repays are returned.....given the huge amount they must be dishing out at the moment that is an acheivement they should be given credit for!
Chucked out at Diss this morning on the way to Norwich after overhead power problems.
Trouble was, despite problems becoming apparent at 9.15, by the time we got to Diss at 10.05 there was only one coach. The next coach took half an hour to arrive, by which time the next train from London had arrived and turned out.
Funnily enough, despite the single feeble entreaty from the Greater Anglia rep to let the 10.05 people on first I'm sure there were plenty of people who'd been on my train left behind in favour of those on the later train.
And when we got to Norwich 40 mins later there were three coaches there. So, next time, more trains at Diss and fewer at Norwich, please. And at least try and encourage some sort of queuing system at Diss.
Trouble was, despite problems becoming apparent at 9.15, by the time we got to Diss at 10.05 there was only one coach. The next coach took half an hour to arrive, by which time the next train from London had arrived and turned out.
Funnily enough, despite the single feeble entreaty from the Greater Anglia rep to let the 10.05 people on first I'm sure there were plenty of people who'd been on my train left behind in favour of those on the later train.
And when we got to Norwich 40 mins later there were three coaches there. So, next time, more trains at Diss and fewer at Norwich, please. And at least try and encourage some sort of queuing system at Diss.
mmmm.....whoever causes the problem is irrelevant....disruption management is down to the TOC and in my experience GAs response to incidents is at best poor.
Many people grumbling the other day that they were worse than NX....that is not a good place to be!
Certainly last time this happened about a year ago there were more coaches available more quickly at Diss.
dk1
Veteran Member
Don't GA still request coaches through NXRR?
and after 2 hours delays this morning.......for this evenings offering on the eve of the long bank holiday.....the 5.50 Norwich knackered 90 fails causing chaos.....again! Let's see of they try and blame this on Network rail and everyone else!
Another week of carnage and chaos!
Another week of carnage and chaos!
bezzer
Member
Real World yet again.
NXEA had 8.5 years to run the railway (formally as ONE before changing the name to NXEA rather than the company as everyone got confused, not the company.) And they still made a a pigs ear of it. After all that time. Now that is incompetence.
Now let me see, 3 months, uhm let me see...... Get in the real World. Greater Anglia have 29 months. Do the maths
real world time.......
Does it matter which entity i.e. network rail, SRA, Dft, NX or GA who bat around around constant excuses and blame each other in our wonderful privatised railway?
Of course it does but they are ALL to blame for the shambolic state of the once GREAT eastern mainline!
At the top of the axis of evil is the DFT who take in excess of £100m each year in profit from our pockets and consistently over the past 9 years has invested NOTHING in our line whilst other areas get huge investment.....
As Mr Leigh says time and time again (and he is right) it is down to years of under investment by successive governments......
BUT and here is the BUT.....GA bid the terms they bid! ZERO improvement and investment!
When they sat down writing their tender offer did they think of investment for passengers or did they think "lets outstrip anyone else's premium payment and stuff the passengers - but put a spin smiley face on it when we win".......
The latter I think!
The same Managers are in place and CONTINUE to treat customers with utter contempt blaming everyone else but THEMSELVES for their own failings!
Welcome to a broken system.......but that's ok us poor suffering customers continue to suffer daily for a monopoly that is inflicted upon us!
REAL WORLD TIME!
bezzer
Member
Ah, finally you get it and hit the nail on the head. The whole system is flawed, not just the company. DfFT - Department for Failed Transport
Aictos
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 10,403
But Greater Anglia like East Coast are only caretaker franchises and as such cannot be expected to be delivering the major changes needed to these routes they serve.
Yes there are commitments that they are expected to do on their watch but realistically a lot of the long term stuff which is needed is likely to be done in the next franchise which ought to be 20 year franchises.
Only then can this country expect to deliver the investment to bring it into 21st Century!
Yes there are commitments that they are expected to do on their watch but realistically a lot of the long term stuff which is needed is likely to be done in the next franchise which ought to be 20 year franchises.
Only then can this country expect to deliver the investment to bring it into 21st Century!
not really.....I have known it from the start of the flawed process but we have what we have.....
the interesting thing to note is that some TOCs, and more importantly, the former BR managers that run them, are PROACTIVE and FORWARD THINKING in all aspects of what they bring to the new system.....
then we have the likes of Abelio and NX who just run things into the ground from very different corporate ethos.....
alas either way customers suffer whilst everyone tinkers and shuffles the deck chairs on the titanic whilst customers suffer and pay the price!
in the meantime we have contracts and companies (and incompetent managers) need to be held to account!
Please tell me why they should hide when they inflict misery on such a regular basis? After all they are getting paid MILLIONS to deliver a service they simply are not!
dk1
Veteran Member
Confirmed that NXRR are still used by GA. 3 buses where initially sent to both Diss & Norwich. I would imagine Diss to be far worse in that situation as trains arrive with nowhere to go, whilst at Norwich all intending London passengers would be sent on the xx.40 Cambridge/xx.57 Lime St (EMT) via Ely. Only those for stations through to Essex would need board a bus.
It is the process that is flawed. The ITT states what the DfT wants; and the competition is decided by who will pay the most. Worse still, DfT does not provide any means for TOCs to recover investment, so only schemes that make money over the life of a franchise are likely to be bid. Not much will cover its cost in 29 months.
It's also true that a new TOC inherits all the faults of the old except for most of their Directors. The staff are the same, the managers are the same, the infrastructure is the same, and the trains are the same. There's not going to be an overnight transformation.
It's also true that a new TOC inherits all the faults of the old except for most of their Directors. The staff are the same, the managers are the same, the infrastructure is the same, and the trains are the same. There's not going to be an overnight transformation.
the disruption management is descending into a shambles.....everytime something happens they seem to delude themselves that they have handled it well....yet the situation on the ground is a complete farce!
I believe Abelio made great play in their bid for the management contract that they would improve this element yet it has got significantly worse! The Dft need to be made aware of this....
but again, and the point was made very well earlier, it is the same sad old managers who cocked everything up so royally under the NX banner, so what did we expect!
they are utterly deluded.....at a recent "meet the manager" session they were busy patting themselves on the back over how they had improved whilst many passengers who choose to talk to them about it just rolled their eyes in disbelief!
unless their is a wholesale change of senior managers nothing will change.....they are worse than second rate!
I believe Abelio made great play in their bid for the management contract that they would improve this element yet it has got significantly worse! The Dft need to be made aware of this....
but again, and the point was made very well earlier, it is the same sad old managers who cocked everything up so royally under the NX banner, so what did we expect!
they are utterly deluded.....at a recent "meet the manager" session they were busy patting themselves on the back over how they had improved whilst many passengers who choose to talk to them about it just rolled their eyes in disbelief!
unless their is a wholesale change of senior managers nothing will change.....they are worse than second rate!
There were three buses at Diss at 0950. Despite popular belief, rail replacement buses are not immediately on hand and take time to arrange and get them to site.
Given the buses were ordered around 0930, 20 minutes does not seem at all bad. Perhaps three were all that were available in that area at that time.
dk1
Veteran Member
bezzer
Member
Back to the argument, 8 years against 3 months!! It's like any change of management, it takes an eternity to make the changes. It is the same in any industry, business, anywhere. Trying to change 8 years of rubbish can not be resolved in 3 months.
You could find 100 people who think the service is poor and disruption management is rubbish. I can find 100 people who have seen an improvement and feel that they are fully informed of what isn going on (so that proves nothing). You will always get grumblers.
And what about the the people that are now in employment (The guards, safety officers, revenue protection) that NXEA dsimissed because the stakeholders were greedy, penny pinching, money grabbing wotsits who were only interested only in profits not customers.
Abellio are actually prepared to make a loss in order to begin to get improvements but why can't you get into the real world and understand that this isn't going to happen overnight not even over 6 months.
Point 1. same management, same staff, same systems, same trains equals same poor performance! Why we even thought it would change is beyond me but Abelio made such a big marketing play (along with the Dft) that it would improve......as for 4 months down the track many many people - who by the way are paying customers not grumblers - were expecting an improvement. Result nothing to date.....we have a right to question their professional competence!
Point 2. NXEA were penny pinching racketeers - we all know that - but it was sanctioned by the Dft and they did nothing when they had the chance to strip them of the franchise
Point 3. Abelio are NOT losing a single penny. This is a short term management contract where they received a fee. The Dft is taking ALL the revenue risk meaning that every single penny of profit (and there is lots) goes back to the treasury. Abelio still get the fat fee even if they cock up - which they do on a regular basis - therefore there is NO incentive for them to improve things, other than the feeble improvements they set out in their bid!
In short 29 months of profiteering from the Dft run by a company with no track record of running london commuter operations (a few pacers around leeds certainly doesnt count), staffed by some the incompetent racketeers who ran the line into the ground under NX! Wow!
Oh and a yet more revenue protection officers........sorry if I am not impressed and "grumbling"......
MidnightFlyer
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 16 May 2010
- Messages
- 12,857
:roll: You mean the franchise where they have a 0% growth clause, yet still manage to run decent, punctual peak services around Sheffield, Leeds, Manchester, Lancashire, West Yorkshire and Tyne & Wear day in, day out. They, IME, have done an excellent job with Northern, yet you seem to think that they should produce results in the first few months? It took 2-3 years on Northern, but when they came bout my God was it better.
bezzer
Member
Remind me which members of the management of NXEA were dutch? Oh sorry,none. And only 2 out of 8 are NXEA old management. Hardly the same old management team !!!!
And many fare paying customers are happy, I have spoken to as many are as happy as you have who are grumblers.
And yes, finally people realising that they have to pay to travel. R P I's are a very good thing. Nothing wrong in that.
No doubt the same grumbling passengers also complain about the coalition, the energy companies, price of fuel, etc etc etc. They could join those who are realistic about the task ahead.
Last edited:
Yeah, TUPE covers transfer of staff - but often the management team will be part of the company that bid - and will leave to head up another franchise, work on future franchises or be made redundant.
The workers on the ground will (mostly) be the same. In the case of a TOC, the 'workplace' doesn't move so they're better protected than office staff who may get transferred to a new company, but also find that their office relocates.
Obviously GA's head office might move, but for drivers, station and platform staff it's just a new uniform. However, from what I've been hearing the morale is up and everyone seems keen to do the best they can.
If that's working with old stock and lines that are regularly falling to bits, there's only so much they can do. There's also only so much a TOC can do about these things. They don't own the track, the overhead lines, the rolling stock or the stations!
Still, Ginger, you know all of this anyway I'm sure - you just like to moan. And, yes, I've been on a delayed train where once one person tuts, everyone joins in. You may hear people then say crazy things, laying the blame in all the wrong places or trying to give simple (but flawed) ideas on how things could be fixed - often ignoring safety issues. But, so what? Unless every GA passenger came on here and found out the reality of the railway system, they'll continue to do so - but you surely aren't in that camp?
The workers on the ground will (mostly) be the same. In the case of a TOC, the 'workplace' doesn't move so they're better protected than office staff who may get transferred to a new company, but also find that their office relocates.
Obviously GA's head office might move, but for drivers, station and platform staff it's just a new uniform. However, from what I've been hearing the morale is up and everyone seems keen to do the best they can.
If that's working with old stock and lines that are regularly falling to bits, there's only so much they can do. There's also only so much a TOC can do about these things. They don't own the track, the overhead lines, the rolling stock or the stations!
Still, Ginger, you know all of this anyway I'm sure - you just like to moan. And, yes, I've been on a delayed train where once one person tuts, everyone joins in. You may hear people then say crazy things, laying the blame in all the wrong places or trying to give simple (but flawed) ideas on how things could be fixed - often ignoring safety issues. But, so what? Unless every GA passenger came on here and found out the reality of the railway system, they'll continue to do so - but you surely aren't in that camp?
bezzer
Member
WELL SAID.
A far bigger network than GA and a success.
•We have 4,800 employees (GA - 3,000) providing nearly 2500 local and regional train services every weekday, making us the largest train operator in the UK.
•We run trains across the north of England, serving a population of nearly 15m.
•Our trains call at over 500 stations (approximately 20% of all UK railway stations), of which we manage 462 (GA - 164).
•We lease around 290 trains, both diesel and electric (GA - 250 electric only).
•We provide direct access to three National parks; Peak District, Yorkshire Dales and North Yorkshire Moors as well as routes into the Lake District.
(GA - The seaside?! and an aiport!!)
What more is there to say.
You are onlt talking about the board! there are plenty of useless people who ARE ex NX who sit just below the board....and YES alas they are still there being as ineffectual as ever!
Many people are happy - but most of them dont know any different. By way of example, a regular commuter I know for over 30 years thought we wer not that bad off....until he changed jobs and began using Southern, SWT, Virgin etc.......he soon changed his tune about the wonderful service on the GE mainline! The mushroom effect.....kept in the dark and fed on ****!
People would not mind paying the huge fares IF we actually got some of that money spent on OUR line! Not a procession of TOCs who outbid each other to strip us of as much money as they can so the Dft can lavish it on other parts of the network.....we are always bootom of the pile for investment despite paying for everyone elses!
bezzer
Member
Yes, and anyone who has any sense knows that you do not change staff attitudes, remove staff in a short space of time. As said before why would anyone sepnd millions for 29 months. Now 15 years is different then if there was no investment I will agree with you.
Do read the comments about Northern. Large company doing well and successful (oh yes, run by Abellio).
As for your commuter. Well the facts are these :-
SWT (16 years with the franchise), I would expect it too be fantastic. Southern -12 years, again I would expect it to be all dancing, Virgin Trains -15 years, First Great Western -13 years, NXEA - 8 years of rubbish; GREATER ANGLIA - 3 months. Getting the picture yet?
Two airports, one of which is fairly important and a pretty busy London terminus. What about the class 170, 153 and 156's, are they not leased or are they actually owned?
- Status