As long as the OP is correct about the dates and that the "other occasions" that they refer to in the letter all occurred before January 8th, then yes.
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Notice of Intended Prosecution from Chiltern railways
- Thread starter m1037433
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R
RailUK Forums
They cannot bring a prosecution based solely on "you purchased a ticket". Their best chance of recovering these would be to charge with the offence which occurred on Jan 8th and the OP have the others taken into consideration at that hearing, but as we have discovered, they are out of time to charge the Jan 8th offence.
I checked my travel history and I have never violated on any travel after January 8
I don't think any wording should open the OP to paying an admin fee, but concentrate on paying the correct fare for the journey. So maybe it should read "When I was made aware of my mistake I would have been willing to pay the correct fare on the spot to resolve the issue promptly, which I understand to be £77.70, and I continue to be willing to resolve the issue by doing so."
If you are sure of that, then there is no risk of a prosecution.
.....but it goes without saying that you're now on their radar, so to speak, and having likely "escaped" on a technicality you almost certainly won't be as lucky again!
On the day of travel 8 th Jan, When the ticket inspector asked about me on boarding a wrong train. He asked me to pay a difference in fare, I apologised to him and he left me with a warning that I should always travel in the train I booked. Tbh I never knew this, Once I realised I travelled in the train I booked.
I never knew this would come this far else I would have paid the fare. Not sure what went wrong on that day a miscommunication or he didn't understand on what I'm saying.
OK, if he asked you to pay the difference in fare and you refused (I presume) then you can't use the wording I suggested.
I'm very anxious and worried after reading the thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/got-caught-using-11-15-oyster-help.262890/
Is there any possibility my issue getting to court. ahh this is really tough for me make a decision on talking to a solicitor( they are charging 500 - 1500 £ ) or reply back to the email. I worrying too much due to the mention of 'criminal record'
Is there any possibility my issue getting to court. ahh this is really tough for me make a decision on talking to a solicitor( they are charging 500 - 1500 £ ) or reply back to the email. I worrying too much due to the mention of 'criminal record'
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If the event happened on January 8th and they gave you 14 days from the 8th of July to respond before taking the matter further then no, there is zero risk of this going to court. July 8th was the last day that they could have taken the matter to court.
As has been explained multiple times, they are out of time to prosecute you.
That's a very different case, and here is a key difference: TfL were the company here, not Chiltern, and TfL are like a factory - they can send out letters within 48 hours, rather than 6 months, and to maintain efficiency, they prosecute nearly everyone, which is like 400 people a week. Chiltern is at the other end of the scale and not at all efficient.
Perhaps you could explain in a few more words why you don't understand or believe the advice given already - and multiple times by different people - that they are out of time to prosecute?
There is zero risk of this going to criminal court.
They are still within time to make a civil court claim. We have recently seen one occasion this has been used, it's uncertain if it's a new direction that the industry may be taking.
But if that were to happen, there is zero chance of a criminal conviction. It would simply redress the unpaid fares.
Yes, that is true. But I suspect that it's the effect of a criminal conviction on their immigration status that the OP is most worried about.
@m1037433, to set your mind at rest, at this point Chiltern CANNOT take you to criminal court over this matter.
@najaB @Pushpit @greyman42 @Hadders @AlterEgo @John R Thanks for your support and you are doing an expectional contribution in the forum.
@Pushpit regarding my constant worry is because it directly affects my visa and job.
With all your support I've decided to draft a mail rather than contacting a solicitor. Even though chiltern cant proscute after 6 months, I dont want to take chances.
It would be very helpful if you can proof read my drafted reply to chiltern before sending it.
drafted mail:
'''
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing in response to the Notice of Intended Prosecution dated 8th July 2024.
Firstly, I would like to express my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused by this situation. I assure you that it was never my intention to travel without a valid ticket. I always aim to comply with the regulations and purchase the appropriate tickets for my journeys.
On the date in question, I purchased an advance single ticket ( attaching it for reference) for the train but inadvertently boarded an earlier train. When the ticket inspector approached me, he informed me that I must travel on the train for which I booked the ticket. However, I understand this was my mistake for not fully understanding the ticket restrictions. After being informed by the ticket inspector, I have always ensured to travel on the trains at the times I booked.
As a job seeker, maintaining a clean record is crucial for my career prospects, and a criminal record could significantly impact my future opportunities. I deeply regret any misunderstanding that may have occurred and am more than willing to cooperate fully to resolve this matter.
If there is any penalty or fine that needs to be paid to rectify this situation, or any loss incurred that needs to be compensated, I am prepared to do so. I would be grateful if you could take this into account and offer any advice on how I can rectify the situation.
I want to assure you that this will not happen again, and I will be more careful in the future to ensure that I always board the correct train. Once again, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused and appreciate your understanding and consideration in this matter.
I look forward to your response.
Kind regards,
'''
@Pushpit regarding my constant worry is because it directly affects my visa and job.
With all your support I've decided to draft a mail rather than contacting a solicitor. Even though chiltern cant proscute after 6 months, I dont want to take chances.
It would be very helpful if you can proof read my drafted reply to chiltern before sending it.
drafted mail:
'''
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing in response to the Notice of Intended Prosecution dated 8th July 2024.
Firstly, I would like to express my sincere apologies for any inconvenience caused by this situation. I assure you that it was never my intention to travel without a valid ticket. I always aim to comply with the regulations and purchase the appropriate tickets for my journeys.
On the date in question, I purchased an advance single ticket ( attaching it for reference) for the train but inadvertently boarded an earlier train. When the ticket inspector approached me, he informed me that I must travel on the train for which I booked the ticket. However, I understand this was my mistake for not fully understanding the ticket restrictions. After being informed by the ticket inspector, I have always ensured to travel on the trains at the times I booked.
As a job seeker, maintaining a clean record is crucial for my career prospects, and a criminal record could significantly impact my future opportunities. I deeply regret any misunderstanding that may have occurred and am more than willing to cooperate fully to resolve this matter.
If there is any penalty or fine that needs to be paid to rectify this situation, or any loss incurred that needs to be compensated, I am prepared to do so. I would be grateful if you could take this into account and offer any advice on how I can rectify the situation.
I want to assure you that this will not happen again, and I will be more careful in the future to ensure that I always board the correct train. Once again, I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused and appreciate your understanding and consideration in this matter.
I look forward to your response.
Kind regards,
'''
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That's quite understandable, in terms of peace of mind, and after all, you really should pay what you owe the railway, notwithstanding their incompetence. I agree that rather than stating you will pay a penalty / fine you should simply ask how much you owe, and let Chiltern tell you what they think is correct. In my view it should only be the difference between what you paid and the standard single fare, but let's see what Chiltern comes up with. Otherwise the revised wording is good, I wouldn't spend much more time on it, Chiltern won't spend long reading it. In fact, their agent has probably just read it here!
@najaB @Pushpit @greyman42 @Hadders @AlterEgo @John R
Update
I received the below mail today and I have the valid railcards purchase details
'
Thank you for your email.
To help us investigate your ticket purchases, we kindly request you to provide proof of your 26-30 Railcard(s) used to buy discounted tickets
Once we receive this verification, we can send you a detailed list of your past ticket purchases for your review. By working with us on this, you may be eligible to resolve this matter outside of court.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
'
Update
I received the below mail today and I have the valid railcards purchase details
'
Thank you for your email.
To help us investigate your ticket purchases, we kindly request you to provide proof of your 26-30 Railcard(s) used to buy discounted tickets
Once we receive this verification, we can send you a detailed list of your past ticket purchases for your review. By working with us on this, you may be eligible to resolve this matter outside of court.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
'
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That seems like they're on a fishing expedition, in my opinion. But, assuming that you had a valid railcard at the time, there's no harm in replying with the railcard detail and again asking how you can pay the fare outstanding for the journey that you made on January 8th.
An interesting reply. By all means send them the railcard information, but they are clearly out of time for criminal charges (though not civil recovery). To be fair to Chiltern, a huge amount of cases in this forum seem to revolve around railcard irregularities, hopefully in your case that at least can be ruled out.
This isn't clear. Have you received a spreadsheet? But if you had the right ticket, right train and right railcard for trips after 11 January 2024 then you have nothing to worry about.
they will be sending the list of travel after sharing the Railcard details history for me to comment on that it seems. I believe it will be a spreadsheet
If you want to be 100% compliant with the letter of the law then you should admit to the occasions that they have identified where you travelled on the wrong train and ask how to pay the outstanding fare only. In my opinion I do not think that they're morally entitled to administration fees in this instance.
Sounds like Chiltern have obtained the OP's booking history and are going on a fishing trip. Without the Railcard proof, they'll presumably assume one wasn't held and come up with a figure on that basis.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Yet more misuse of data that the ICO will do precisely nothing about.
If the OP held the railcard and held this throughout his previous travels then replying with the railcard detail shouldn't create any harm.
Although part of me would be inclined to be more robust and reply stating that you note that Chiltern are now out of time to bring about a prosecution and that you are simply seeking the opportunity to pay the fare you inadvertently failed to pay by taking the wrong train.
If the OP does not or did not hold a railcard and, in hindsight, may have travelled using a railcard-discounted ticket, then the OP would be wise to carefully consider their response. Buying railcard-discounted tickets without a railcard is not an offence; using them is the offence. It is, of course, for the TOC to prove that the tickets were used without a railcard, and it is for the TOC to bring the prosecution within the time frame set out in law.
The OP is under no obligation to respond to their queries, and the OP should certainly take steps to ensure they do not inadvertently admit to something that Chiltern would otherwise not be in a position to prove.
ETA: if the OP, in hindsight, believes he may have subsequent to 11 January 2024 travelled using a railcard-discounted ticket without holding that railcard then my advice would change. But we can only advise on what the OP tells us.
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I have always booked my ticket with a valid rail card and I have replied them with the Railcard details.
The only violation is boarding earlier trains 10 times before Jan 8
Do you mean
(1) you paid for a ticket for less than the Railcard minimum fare, but used it when the minimum fare applied (before 10am)? or
(2) you used an off-peak ticket when you should have used an Anytime ticket?
(3) you used an Advance ticket on a wrong train (as when you were stopped)?
It makes a difference to how we should advise you to proceed.
used advanced ticket on a wrong train