Nottingham 'Bus War'

[Robertj21a]

I know; I was kidding Just remember that person having an issue with that slogan (among many other issues) whilst indulging in Comical Ali rants about how evil TB were and that Premiere were going to prevail!

Ah, yes, I recall that too. We certainly attract 'a wide variety of individuals'.....

:roll:

 

[Andyh82]

Derby bus station hasn't been fit for purpose since it opened

You've got buses entering mixing with buses leaving, mixing with cars entering the car park, mixing with buses going to and from the layover bays, nothing can move as buses leaving have to wait for the lights delaying all the other movements.

The bay's start too close to the road so buses have to give way to buses reversing while still on the public highway, other bus stations of this layout have sufficient access roads before you get to the bays

Bays are too tight, and there isn't enough of them, some buses still depart from distant shelters down the road.

There are no alighting stands

They need to look at why Huddersfield works but Derby doesn't, but the fact Huddersfield dates from the 70s with lots of land allocated and Derby was squeezed in as an afterthought focusing on the hotel/casino first is probably the reason.

 

[Mugby]

I'm very surprised that it was ever approved for use. Surely there must be some Ministry of Transport specifications or guidelines which must be adhered to? In the case of Derby Bus Station where buses frequently bring traffic on the public road outside to a standstill, it's amazing that it hasn't been declared unfit for purpose or some alterations ordered by a higher authority than Derby City Council.

 

[ChathillMan]

I'm very surprised that it was ever approved for use. Surely there must be some Ministry of Transport specifications or guidelines which must be adhered to? In the case of Derby Bus Station where buses frequently bring traffic on the public road outside to a standstill, it's amazing that it hasn't been declared unfit for purpose or some alterations ordered by a higher authority than Derby City Council.

I presume like most bus stations a code of conduct exists where buses can only have certain time slots at certain stands with instruction to use layover bays if not departing for more than 5 mins etc.

It is therefore up to the local authority to say if too many buses are using it and the bus operators to see if they can do anything with the schedules.

 

[Robertj21a]

I presume like most bus stations a code of conduct exists where buses can only have certain time slots at certain stands with instruction to use layover bays if not departing for more than 5 mins etc.

It is therefore up to the local authority to say if too many buses are using it and the bus operators to see if they can do anything with the schedules.

Yes, correct, as far as I understand. The basic problem isn't really the use of the stands themselves (or the schedules etc) but the chaos caused at the *only* entrance - effectively, 3 lanes of buses arrive at the same spot, which is *also* at a junction with a main road. To make matters worse, every stand is in use, including those right by the same entrance. As all buses have to reverse off the stands there is constant delay to these same incoming buses while they wait for others to reverse.
All this is before some of the exiting buses have to join the same lane of traffic used by incoming buses and private cars trying to get to a busy multi-storey car park.
Simply a terrible design from the outset.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Yes, correct, as far as I understand. The basic problem isn't really the use of the stands themselves (or the schedules etc) but the chaos caused at the *only* entrance - effectively, 3 lanes of buses arrive at the same spot, which is *also* at a junction with a main road. To make matters worse, every stand is in use, including those right by the same entrance. As all buses have to reverse off the stands there is constant delay to these same incoming buses while they wait for others to reverse.
All this is before some of the exiting buses have to join the same lane of traffic used by incoming buses and private cars trying to get to a busy multi-storey car park.
Simply a terrible design from the outset.

It doesn't help either if a bus is running late and still on the stand when the next bus arrives. With the increase in numbers of buses using the bus station, this happens regularly.

 

[Andyh82]

It doesn't help either if a bus is running late and still on the stand when the next bus arrives. With the increase in numbers of buses using the bus station, this happens regularly.

Which in a well designed bus station wouldn't be an issue as you'd drop passengers at an alighting bay and then just go to the layover bays, but there aren't alighting bays and to get to the layover you have to look back around with buses coming in, exiting and cars going to the car park!

 

[Mugby]

I presume like most bus stations a code of conduct exists where buses can only have certain time slots at certain stands with instruction to use layover bays if not departing for more than 5 mins etc.

It is therefore up to the local authority to say if too many buses are using it and the bus operators to see if they can do anything with the schedules.

Sorry, I should have explained a little better what I meant. I wasn't referring to the number of buses using it or the time slots available.

What I was getting at is the dimensions of the bays and the reversing space available. At Derby there simply isn't enough space for reversing buses and incoming ones. When a bus reverses, it stops incoming arrivals and blocks the road outside, this happens at least every ten minutes. Apart from the complete gridlock, there are frequent accidents and it makes me wonder if the Ministry (or perhaps H&S) could say that the space and dimensions make it unsafe for use.

I'm not a fan of drive on, reverse off bus stations, but if this layout must be used, I would cite Hull Interchange as a good example with plenty of space and free flowing movements in and out and no delays.

 

[Robertj21a]

Sorry, I should have explained a little better what I meant. I wasn't referring to the number of buses using it or the time slots available.

What I was getting at is the dimensions of the bays and the reversing space available. At Derby there simply isn't enough space for reversing buses and incoming ones. When a bus reverses, it stops incoming arrivals and blocks the road outside, this happens at least every ten minutes. Apart from the complete gridlock, there are frequent accidents and it makes me wonder if the Ministry (or perhaps H&S) could say that the space and dimensions make it unsafe for use.

I'm not a fan of drive on, reverse off bus stations, but if this layout must be used, I would cite Hull Interchange as a good example with plenty of space and free flowing movements in and out and no delays.

I think the dimensions of the bays at Derby are the same as elsewhere, not ideal but adequate. Although, to my mind, there are many problems with the basic design at Derby, the over-riding issue is the bottleneck at the only entry point.

 

[gordonthemoron]

The old Derby bus station was much better. The new one in Northampton is also crap and has been known to cause gridlock throughout the town centre

 

[Robertj21a]

The old Derby bus station was much better. The new one in Northampton is also crap and has been known to cause gridlock throughout the town centre

Hanley is another rubbish design, with only one entrance/exit. Like Derby, the solution was to move the excess buses back out on to nearby roads.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Hanley is another rubbish design, with only one entrance/exit. Like Derby, the solution was to move the excess buses back out on to nearby roads.

The same thing happened with the new Nottingham Victoria Bus Station when it opened. Shortly after opening all the Bingham services were removed - there simply wasn't the capacity. Gradually over time other services have been withdrawn eg Grantham, Hucknall Estates, Awsworth etc which is the only reason there is enough capacity now - really it was built just too small just as Derby Bus Station has been.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

From Derbyshire County Council:

"From Sunday 25 June 2017

Service 6.1 (Trent Barton): An improved Sunday timetable will be introduced, with more buses and most journeys running to and from Bakewell. This will also be better coordinated with Service 6.3 between Derby and Belper."

The timetable is online and gives an hourly Sunday service Derby to Bakewell - with notably long layovers in Matlock each way, as well as 10 minutes in Bakewell and a 12 minute journey time from Matlock to Matlock Bath southbound!

 

[Ginga]

Ilkeston Flyer and Y3 are being moved out of the Station, to stop C8 Morledge from the 9/5 till 6/6 due to repair work. Also going to be no dead lanes in the Station.

 

[Andyh82]

Does anyone know why the "Black Cat" seems to be run like a poor relation?

No branded buses, run by red spares, and half the service, the former Felix half, run by Notts & Derby as the 11

 

[kevjs]

I've noticed the 07 plate Rushcliffe Mainline buses are carrying "Shiny New Buses Coming Soon" signage - The thing it does highlight is that the 02 plate Cotgrave Connection buses aren't carrying similar signage - are they now the oldest buses in regular service in Nottingham?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Does anyone know why the "Black Cat" seems to be run like a poor relation?

No branded buses, run by red spares, and half the service, the former Felix half, run by Notts & Derby as the 11

Obviously not making Trent any money hence the downgrading.

 

[Robertj21a]

I've noticed the 07 plate Rushcliffe Mainline buses are carrying "Shiny New Buses Coming Soon" signage - The thing it does highlight is that the 02 plate Cotgrave Connection buses aren't carrying similar signage - are they now the oldest buses in regular service in Nottingham?

I think Cotgraves get 'new' (refurbed) buses soon, possibly the ex-Mickleovers ?

 

[MCR247]

Yeah I think they're being done now

 

[kevjs]

I think Cotgraves get 'new' (refurbed) buses soon, possibly the ex-Mickleovers ?

Interestingly - their website says "Big Better Buses" coming soon for the Cotgrave connection https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/cotgraveconnection but nothing on the mainline... :?

 

[tbone]

Refurbished Volvos for "the Keyworth" and "the Cotgrave".

New ADL Enviro 200s for Rushcliffe Mainline and the Allesstree.

New Mercedes Citaros to replace the scanias on Skylink Derby.

Supposedly new buses on Skylink Nottingham.

There's still 2 Mickleover Volvos and 14 Nines solos (all 09 plates) unaccounted for.

 

[Andyh82]

Saying the buses replacing Solars on the COT are "bigger" is a marginal point as surely they are talking one or two seats.

I found it odd that the Calverton Connection actually replaced its Citaros with the previous older buses that the Citaros previously replaced.

 

[tbone]

http://ow.ly/sJqp30byH1G

trentbarton is to spend £5m in 2017 on 28 new buses and on upgrades – its biggest ever investment in a single year.

New vehicles will be deployed from July and be put to work serving customers on the skylink Derby and skylink Nottingham airport links and the rushcliffe mainline and allestree routes.

In addition, newly revamped buses will be bringing all mod cons to the cotgrave connection and the keyworth connection services.

Jeff Counsell, managing director of trentbarton, said: “This year we are making a massive investment in our vehicles to keep our customers delighted and to attract even more people to get on our buses.”

“We’re keen to play our part in reducing carbon emissions in the communities we serve, and these buses are some of the greenest diesel vehicles that money can buy”.

The order book includes 25 Enviro200 models from Alexander Dennis (ADL) which are light, fuel efficient and feature improved suspension. They have glazed skylights, LED lighting, visual and audio next-stop announcements, plus free superfast Wi-Fi and USB power at every seat.

Also on their way from EvoBus are three new Citaro buses by Mercedes-Benz, which will run on the skylink Derby service linking East Midlands Airport with Derby, Loughborough and Leicester.

skylink Nottingham will see its new ADL buses from September.

rushcliffe mainline will be joined by nine of the new ADL buses from July and the allestree will welcome five of the buses later in the year.

Counsell said: “In trentbarton land we are bucking the national trend by increasing use of buses by the public. By investing millions every year we ensure travelling by our buses is an experience people enjoy as an excellent, great value way to get about”.

ADL is building the new buses at its Scarborough factory, which also assembled the 22 new buses delivered to trentbarton last year and the nine luxury coaches that joined the red arrow fleet in 2015.

Richard Matthews, sales director at ADL, said: “It’s a great privilege for ADL to partner with a pioneering and innovative company like trentbarton.

“trentbarton is renowned for its unwavering customer-centric approach and outstanding attention to detail – the new fleet of 25 Enviro200 vehicles is testament to this”.

 

[ag51ruk]

Does that mean that Skylink Derby is becoming a Trentbarton service? It's operated by Kinch now, so no Mango or Zigzag acceptance.

 

[MCR247]

Probably just wanted to include it in the press release as the cost of the 3 citaros gives a more impressive price

 

[Mugby]

Perhaps the statement should have started: "Wellglade is to spend......."

They're obviously making plenty of money at the moment!

 

[Ginga]

They are just replacing "life expired " vehicles! 03 plate and 54 plate Solars, 54 plate Tempo's and the deathtrap 07 plate batch! Bartons Nottingham depot have not had any new buses since 2013! And it only got the 63 plate Solos because Notts County Council pays them £340 per day to run the Villagers. This order is to small and leaves 03 plates on i4, Pronto and Calverton Connection. Alex Hornby said in 2012 the oldest full-size buses will be 2004 plates. It's 2017 and they still have a few Excels running about.

 

[MCR247]

Is it possible any ex Mickleover volvos will transfer to i4? Or maybe the 07 plate Tempos?

 

[Andyh82]

Age is only a number, these older buses have been extensively refurbished. Many operators are refurbishing buses from that era as they are seen as a golden era of bus manufacture and you can't really buy similar anymore.

Notably Alex Hornby's Transdev Blazefield.

 

[tbone]

Is it possible any ex Mickleover volvos will transfer to i4? Or maybe the 07 plate Tempos?

Seven of the Mickleovers are headed for the Keyworth and the Cotgrave and the Tempos are apparently being withdrawn from front line service due to their reliability.

I expect that the only inter-Trent cascade will be the Allestree solos, with some buses potentially being cascaded to sister companies.